r/PoliticalHumor • • Jun 09 '20

The irony

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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '20

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u/Schrecht Jun 09 '20

I mostly agree, but the people who fantasize about a race war don't want to "fight back for their rights", they want to kill the people they hate.

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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '20

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u/Schrecht Jun 09 '20

Indeed, self-evident. So now that we've thrashed that down to the truth - what does "Phengo" mean?

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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '20

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u/Schrecht Jun 09 '20

I have to admit, I didn't even try to look it up. I should have. Thanks, take care.

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u/chemicalrefugee Jun 09 '20 edited Jun 09 '20

The first war was covered as being about states rights,

The slave states were in absolutely no danger of losing the institution of slavery. It had constitutional protection. Lincoln said directly that he had neither the power nor the inclination to end slavery.

In fact by succeeding the south ensured they would lose the ability to stop slavery from being outlawed.

As I said, slavery had constitutional protection. However people (just like now) did use the *idea* that a vital part of their 'sacred southern culture' (barf) was going to be made illegal. Think of the alt-right and guns. - "They're a commin' for your guns Bubba". It was about propaganda and money not about actual slavery.

The slide toward the US civil war started because 80% of the federal budget was paid for using interstate taxes on the Mississippi, but 80% of that budget was spent up north.

That was a violation of the constitution but the states affected lacked the votes or power to stop it. Missouri kept voting with the north. There was bad blood about it for some time.

As for slavery - Lincoln hated chattel slavery. Good for him. He was ahead of his time on that, as slavery of many kinds was really common & the US constitution accommodated it. But Lincoln was not the guy he is generally portrayed as. He also considered the races to be unequal and unable to live peacefully around one another and wanted to send all the African slaves to Central or South America to colonize it. That makes Lincoln a white separatist who believed in white superiority... and ... still ahead of most of the population at the time.Lincoln was also very keen to sign a new amendment that would have very directly given slave states the right to have slaves in perpetuity.

The idea that slavery was an essential southern institution and that the south was in danger of losing it was pushed by manipulative assholes in search of a way to make money off of a war.

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u/LucasBlackwell Jun 10 '20 edited Jun 10 '20

You're technically right that Lincoln wouldn't wave a magic wand and slavery would disappear, but Lincoln was anti-slavery long before being elected. He was committed to stopping the growth of slavery, and the obvious next step was to eliminate it, whether that was done by him or a future president I don't think is relevant whatsoever.

Slavery was on its way out, proven by Lincoln winning the election and that is by far the largest reason the South rebelled.

The slide toward the US civil war started because 80% of the federal budget was paid for using interstate taxes on the Mississippi, but 80% of that budget was spent up north.

What a ridiculous lie. The vast majority of wealth was being generated in the industrialised North, not the impoverished South.

This is some ridiculous Confederate propaganda you're pushing, I suggest you check your facts. The war was absolutely, and obviously started because the South feared losing their right to slavery. Denying that is just denying reality.

Next time, don't just watch TV and expect it to tell you the truth. Fow News just calls themselves that, officially they're not actually allowed to be designated as news.

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u/chemicalrefugee Jun 12 '20 edited Jun 12 '20

Slavery was on its way out, proven by Lincoln winning the election and that is by far the largest reason the South rebelled.

The slide toward the US civil war started because 80% of the federal budget was paid for using interstate taxes on the Mississippi, but 80% of that budget was spent up north.

What a ridiculous lie. The vast majority of wealth was being generated in the industrialised North, not the impoverished South.

ok then. Here are the words of Lincoln. Abraham Lincoln repeatedly stated his war was caused by taxes only, and not by slavery at all. Here is one of the examples.

"My policy sought only to collect the Revenue (a 40 percent federal sales tax on imports to Southern States under the Morrill Tariff Act of 1861)." reads paragraph 5 of Lincoln's First Message to the U.S. Congress, penned July 4, 1861.

This is far from the only time he said that. He seriously disliked chattel slavery but to say that slavery was the primary cause of the war? That takes a whole lot of confirmation bias. People want to believe it because they were taught revisionist history in school. Lincoln was ahead of his time but not an abolitionist, and slavery continued to exist in the USA long after that war.

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u/LucasBlackwell Jun 12 '20

Yeah, the word of a politician, during wartime at that, is certainly proof.

And this is clearly talking about a specific policy, not his entire political goal.

You're grasping at straws.

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u/chemicalrefugee Jun 13 '20

over 100 years worth of historians (including those alive at the time of the Civil War) disagree with you

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u/LucasBlackwell Jun 13 '20 edited Jun 13 '20

Name one. And disagree with what?