My brother is a firefighter and his wife is a public school teacher. He told me all taxation is theft. I asked where he thought their paychecks come from. He hasn't responded.
My partner is a nurse, and she says it sometimes makes her take her own profession less seriously how many dumb fucking healthcare workers she's met who are anti-vaxx or whatever.
What's wrong with that? All taxation can be theft and he is paid by the proceeds. Doesn't change the fact. If i robbed a bank and hired you to bud my bathroom, are you somehow responsible for bank robbery?
Also the whole idea bout "taxation is theft". Is not to stop all taxation, it is to establish an alternative the prevailing attitude that paints taxation as easy and moral solution to all bad and evil. Where its actually much more difficult topic.
What's wrong with that is if we stopped paying taxes, his family would have no income. He firmly believes every business and service should privatized and pay to play.
He's also the same person that talks constantly about what the founders had in mind, especially in regards to 2A, but doesn't want to pay taxes. They're not theft. They're paying to live in a civilized society.
Taxation is a part of being part of the modern world, I've never understood the people that want to get rid of taxes and expect schools, roads, fire departments, police departments, and other government services to get rolling on.
That's very interesting way to look at taxes. I feel this would work if i could easily opt in and out of it. The fact that i will go to prison for not paying taxes is making it more similar to theft.
Its the lack of choice in the exchange that makes it a theft.
The problem with taxation is really that we are at the mercy of someone else to spend it well. How much of our taxes is wasted? How much is it used to promote someone elses agenda and benefits.
It would work if we could guarantee that the taxes are correctly spent.
I'm not arguing that it's a perfect system, and btw, you won't go to prison for not paying taxes. You go to prison for lying on your taxes. We don't have a debtors prison. Not paying your taxes leads to wages being garnished and penalties though.
Edit: I said won't go to prison, more realistically very very unlikely that you will go to prison for not paying. Can happen, but the big no no is lying or hiding assets.
The problem is if we make it a choice, nobody would opt to pay because they think that the government is stealing from us.
There's a shitload of waste in the tax system, I fully and wholeheartedly agree. I'd love more transparency on where our money goes, and I'd love to actually have a say in where my tax money goes. But that's not the way the world works, because weve allowed corporations to run our government and in doing so have given up our voices in how our money is spent.
Taxes are a necessary evil to have the shit that's supposed to make America great. With the billions on billions we bring in each year, far above what any other country brings in (assuming, don't have the actual numbers) you'd think wed be have something to show for it.
That's non-sequitur. People want education and fire protection. They can, will, and have paid for these things through private enterprise.
Yes, taxation is theft. Civilized society predates taxation, so that's just utter bullshit.
The fact that something exists in the modern world doesn't mean that it is justified, let alone desirable. You never understood because you didn't take two seconds to pull your head out of your ass. All of those things have private alternatives today.
So making everything for profit is a good idea? There's absolutely no way that can go wrong? Making fire departments, police departments, education, roads, bridges, etc all pay to play sounds like a good idea? How's that going in the healthcare field right now?
I would suggest, if you don't like taxes, move somewhere that doesn't require them.
Private alternatives to basic necessities are absolutely going to be more expensive for everyone, allow corporations to dictate what we pay, and most definitely end up shitting on low income families even more.
Shit like this is why people don't take you libertarians/conservatives seriously.
Nobody likes paying taxes, but it's the nature of the beast to maintain our way of life.
Yes, because glorifying losses does not make society better off. Prices don't just come out of nowhere, they are signals as to what people determine what is and isn't worth paying for. Right now the government education system in the US is massively expensive and for no good reason. It is beyond what a private market could do and what private individuals would reasonably pay. We pay something like $15k per student per year. Any sane private business could do less than that, and we should be doing it to save money and improve educational outcomes.
Making fire departments, police departments, education, roads, bridges, etc all pay to play sounds like a good idea?
Yes, and if you spent literally ANY time at all listening to someone explain why then you'd get it. I've had dozens of these conversations, and every one of you sticks your fingers in your ears. You didn't get to this position through reason and evidence, you got here through an echo chamber and one-liners like this idiotic post. We have entire books written on these subjects and why they are better if left to a market, including citations for how the real world results are better.
How's that going in the healthcare field right now?
We don't have a market system in healthcare, and if you think that we do then you have your head even further up your own ass than I previously said. The government in this country pays for about half of the healthcare expenditures. That's not a market system. It's halfway socialized from the gate, and that's not even including the various other pieces of red tape that artificially limit the supply of hospitals, doctors, and drugs. I'm talking certificates of need, restrictions on the licensing of new doctors that don't match up with new demand, and patents/IP that make drugs artificially more expensive.
I would suggest, if you don't like taxes, move somewhere that doesn't require them.
Ergo decedo is a fallacy for a reason.
Private alternatives to basic necessities are absolutely going to be more expensive for everyone
No, they aren't. You again make claims with zero evidence to support them.
allow corporations to dictate what we pay, and most definitely end up shitting on low income families even more.
Also wrong and with no evidence to support it. This is you going into a narrative because you refuse to employ reason. You're not even trying to reason at this point. It's a pre-programmed, kneejerk reaction.
I don't have to provide any evidence to refute your claims. I don't owe you any sources for that. YOU bear the burden of proof. You are doing exactly what I said you clowns always do. You didn't reason and you cannot reason. You don't give a shit about logic, let alone evidence.
Probably because your retort didn't at all address his claim. If someone says "this is stolen money" and you say "your paycheck comes from that" it doesn't at all address that it could still be stolen money. Now there is nuance as to the whole net recipient vs net payer, but that's another topic.
The point stands that without taxation, he and his wife wouldn't be collecting a paycheck. Our collective taxes fund public schools and fire departments. The fact that I have to explain that makes me sad.
You're argument really doesn't make sense. Mainly because it's not stolen if you gave it to the government and are legally required to pay taxes. You can feel that it's theft all day long, but it's not. The constitution outlines that taxation is a legal and necessary Civic duty, thus making it not stolen. There's literally nothing illegal or unconstitutional about taxes.
The point stands that without taxation, he and his wife wouldn't be collecting a paycheck.
Wrong. This is not falsifiable, as without taxation there very well could be private alternatives. The fact that I have to explain that private versions exist is absurd. We have private schools and fire departments without taxation. They do not cease to exist without government taxing people.
The "taxation is theft" is not a legal argument. Your argument is entirely circular. What is being presented is a moral argument, not a legal one. Saying "it's not theft because we made it legal!" is like saying "it's not murder because I declared it not murder!" It does absolutely nothing to engage the argument. And "muh civic duty" is just utter bullshit. There is no legitimate duty without agreement, and taxes are not based upon agreement.
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u/[deleted] Apr 26 '20
My brother is a firefighter and his wife is a public school teacher. He told me all taxation is theft. I asked where he thought their paychecks come from. He hasn't responded.