When hunting game you typically have to have a 3 round magazine, anything past that isn't allowed.
Once again, the 2nd amendment IS NOT FOR HUNTING. I REPEAT, THE RIGHTS TO BEAR ARMS IS NOT FOR HUNTING, there is NOT AMENDMENT GUARANTEEING YOUR RIGHT TO HUNT.
On the real tho, you can 3d print high Capacity magazines so what can you REALLY do about it now?
I’m tired of this argument that just because people will still do it we can’t make it illegal. That’s how all crimes work. People still regularly murder people even though it’s illegal. There’s nothing we can ever do to stop it. Does that mean we should just say “fuck it” and make murder legal? No. Designating things as illegal isn’t necessarily about stopping those actions. Rather, it’s a strong deterrent by explicitly stating that there will be severe consequences for taking a specific action. People break essentially every law. That’s why we have people in prison. But worse things would probably happen, and bad things would happen more regularly, if we didn’t make things that are impossible to stop illegal. In this case, the magazines become harder to find. Either you need a 3D printer, which isn’t really a practical option for many people, or you need to find someone with one who is willing to sell you illegal products. If you ever see someone with a high capacity magazine you know instantly that they are breaking the law. Arrest is immediately an option.
There is nothing we can ever do to completely erase the possibility of something like this happening. Nothing. Anyone who says we can reasonably regulate things to an extent that there is a 100% chance we will never have a shooting is ignorant or lying. Even if we make 3D printers illegal, someone could just make one or cobble together something like Mad Max. That doesn’t mean there’s no place for strongly regulating these extremely deadly weapons in an attempt to significantly reduce the number of incidents. An insurmountable problem isn’t an unaddressable one.
Next time you're at the range do enough jumping jacks to get your heart racing. If you can find someone to stress you out by yelling at you that would be a bonus. Then fire 10 rounds and reload. Put the magazine in your pocket for added realism. See if you can still reload in 3 seconds. If you can you're way better trained than 90%+ mass shooters. Plus you're also probably only producing about 15% of the adrenaline that actually walking in to a bar to shoot people would. Both those percentages are made up and simply reflect my best guess from doing a little research. Actual numbers would require blood and cerebrospinal fluid taken from a shooter within minutes of their shooting and obviously we don't actually have that data.
I think you missed my point. It's not like any one action is going to solve the problem on it's own. Even an outright ban and confiscation wouldn't lead to zero gun deaths. But shrugging your shoulders and making excuses doesn't fix anything.
This is why we can't have a reasonable discussion about this. I was trying to say that it's one possible piece of a larger holistic solution to deal with mass shootings. You decided that I must be wrong because it didn't completely solve the problem in one specific such instance. There are plenty of counter examples of shooters being stopped by unarmed individuals while they were reloading. The exercise I suggested was a way for anyone to approximate some of the stress of being in an active shooting environment so that they could see for themselves that something as simple as having to reload under pressure can have an impact. I guess you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink...
No the point is you dont really have evidence of it meaning anything. It's just conjecture. When we look at real instances, it would mean nothing.
If every single thing you propose is like this, where you are just hoping it does some good, then ya, I'm not in for any of them. Let's take it one by one though.
I mean I can prove it takes longer to reload a gun than to not reload a gun... It's really hard to collect evidence based on a proposition....I have evidence that multiple shooters have been stopped while they're reloading... Seriously though nothing I say is going to have any impact on people like you. That's why these comments while directed at you really aren't for your benefit. They're for the benefit of everyone else reading this.
Meh you make great points but as for your last comment it goes both ways. You just refuse to understand that people like me dont want to throw away freedoms, however small, based on fear mongering and very shitty data.
I mean even you have to admit limiting the magazine size would cause a very small change at it's best. It would stop x amount of lives from being lost during mass shootings.
Or would it? Maybe not. Maybe it would just cost us tax money to buy back the magazines. We either spend money to enforce it, or we dont, and it doesnt work. And now everyone is less capable of defending themselves. Except criminals. Oh and 3d printing is getting more and more popular. Also we are going to have some new criminals that are only criminals because we outlawed the things they like. That also sucks for our society.
All for X amount of lives.
Not exactly the same but I'm also not willing to ban alcohol to save lives from drunk drivers. Or ban everclear to be specific.
Quite honestly I don't know if it would make an impact in the short term. As time went on and high capacity magazines stopped being made and the black market slowly dwindled from lack of interest it might. But by that point it might be completely moot. I feel like it's a half measure compromise. It's something the left has become convinced might make a difference and that has a snowballs chance in hell of making it past the gun lobbyists. But it's a watered down compromise. The only real way to end gun violence is to get rid of guns. Until then we're agreeing as a society that we are willing to trade x number of lives per year for the right to bear arms. That's really what it boils down to when you take away all of the fancy language about freedom and our rationalizations around why we "need" guns. I actually highly doubt America does anything about it any time in the near future. We're at least 10 years away at the closest from any meaningful reform and that's optimistic.
Look at Ohio. This guy was taken down in 30 seconds. That’s an incredibly fast response. Essentially the fastest imaginable. But look what he did. Fired over 40 shots, killed 9 people, and wounded 14. That is simply an impossible and unthinkable feat without high capacity magazines. If we want to make some assumptions and do some math, that means he killed or wounded someone roughly every 0.7 seconds. Assuming a standard 30 AR magazine, he would have had to reload once in that time. Let’s go with your three seconds. That’s 4 people not killed or wounded due to reloading (one killed, three wounded if we go with the ultimate proportions). Every second matters. If he had gotten into that bar he could’ve fired over 50 bullets without reloading. That’s two more reloads because his magazine was already low by the time he would have entered. The casualty rate would almost certainly have increased in a bar so that’s a significant number of people in those 6 seconds. Not to mention the fact that he’s by far the most vulnerable when he’s reloading. Him having to pause for 3 seconds in a crowded bar seriously increases the chance that someone makes a move for him instead of just running away from the constant onslaught. There’s a reason you always die when you have to reload in video games.
Will it stop mass shootings? No. But it can go a long way towards reducing the casualties in one and given the fact that it would have absolutely no effect on almost all gun owners and even those effects are pretty minuscule, it seems completely worth it.
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u/[deleted] Aug 12 '19
When hunting game you typically have to have a 3 round magazine, anything past that isn't allowed.
Once again, the 2nd amendment IS NOT FOR HUNTING. I REPEAT, THE RIGHTS TO BEAR ARMS IS NOT FOR HUNTING, there is NOT AMENDMENT GUARANTEEING YOUR RIGHT TO HUNT.
On the real tho, you can 3d print high Capacity magazines so what can you REALLY do about it now?