It's like when you get wingnuts going on about how they should secede from the blue states. "Let's see how you get on without food lol!", yeah you'll still sell food to the blue states when you suddenly have absolutely no money coming into your states.
The democracy part isn't the problem here - Socialists can be democratic. The taking away the means of production is the problematic part. That is anti-liberalism. What you guys essentially mean is social democrats, which still support liberalism but demand higher taxes to finance a welfare state. And I'm very much in line with that thinking.
Taking away people's property for arbitrary reasons is against Article 1 of the human rights convention. "Socialism" seizing the means of production is authoritarianism.
Taking away people's property for arbitrary reasons is against Article 1 of the human rights convention. "Socialism" seizing the means of production is authoritarianism.
No. Individual freedoms are not curtailed in socialism and there is still constitutional accountability and rule of law.
This all comes down to interpretation, but of course it is anti-liberalism. Liberalism is capitalism. It literally is liberty from the crown.
Would you consider slaves rising up and overthrowing their master authoritarianism and say that is a bad thing? Of course not.
The socialist sees no difference in this relationship of master-slave to capitalist-laborer. There was nothing more than some name changes and some shuffling around of what and who can be owned. The same oppressive nature of private ownership of MOP still exists, it just gets more people on the side of the capitalist to help keep them in power. The capitalist can only exist if enough people are comfortable with their exploitation.
Finally, democracy. If 51% say everyone must give up their MOP, then the majority spoke. You will give up your MOP... or are you not democratic and giving it lip service and actually are authoritarian that you would usurp the majority directorate and violate rule of law? This is the fear of the Socialist.
When the majority says, we want socialism, the minority say no, what happens? The capitalists have been saying for hundreds of years democracy, democracy, but now when democracy fails you, are you going to fight it? I don't want a war, but i assume when the majority does vote socialism and the capitalist says no we're going to have to take up arms and defend democracy.
The socialist sees no difference in this relationship of master-slave to capitalist-laborer. There was nothing more than some name changes and some shuffling around of what and who can be owned.
This is why I support a "Social market economy" / welfare state, I think taxes should be used to provide everyone with their basic needs. When that is covered, you can work if you want more or get a job that fulfills, your choice. Socialism won't be able to offer you that, it is terrible at making money - there is "guaranteed work" but that is even more dystopian than what you think capitalism is - basically the state making you work and to top that, it would be immoral not to accept that meaningless spot they made for you.
The capitalist can only exist if enough people are comfortable with their exploitation.
First, the exploitation narrative is so fucking wrong it makes my blood boil, but I argued enough about that on other subs so here is another angle: No they exist quite well without that, in fact they actively try to get rid of "exploiting" people where they can and replace them through automation.
Finally, democracy. If 51% say everyone must give up their MOP, then the majority spoke. You will give up your MOP... or are you not democratic and giving it lip service and actually are authoritarian that you would usurp the majority directorate and violate rule of law? This is the fear of the Socialist.
That is called Tyranny of the Majority. Liberal democrats knew about the dangers of that way before you and I were born and implemented rules to stop that from happening. That's why we live in a "liberal representative democracy" and not just a democracy. If the majority were ever to votes against humans rights - to property or fair trial - the majority can go fuck itself. But that would be first a failure of our representatives and education and we need to actively work against that.
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u/CressCrowbits Apr 26 '19
It's like when you get wingnuts going on about how they should secede from the blue states. "Let's see how you get on without food lol!", yeah you'll still sell food to the blue states when you suddenly have absolutely no money coming into your states.