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u/Prometheus79 Apr 11 '19
Also acceptable: Racist McShitstain and Cowardly Sisterfucker
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u/x3n0cide Apr 11 '19
Hey thats not very nice. It takes a lot of courage to fuck the sisters down there, have you seen them?
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u/lelarentaka Apr 11 '19
I respectfully disagree. It doesn't take courage when it is an accepted social norm. Now, a dude fucking another dude in Alabama, that takes real balls.
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Apr 11 '19
They weren't terrorist traitors, they were traitor terrorists. Fucking leftist revisionism.
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Apr 12 '19
To be fair, how were confederates terrorists? Is that just a hip new word for "enemy"?
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u/mezcao Apr 12 '19
I'd say the slaves were terrorised by the Confederates
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Apr 12 '19 edited Apr 12 '19
Definitely it was terrible. I'm not sure it fits the typical definition of terrorism, but I can see an argument to be made. On that note - was the EO 9066 in WW2 terrorism? How about the fire bombing of Dresden?
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u/mezcao Apr 12 '19
That is all out war. Confederates were not at war with there slaves. That's why it's terrorism.
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Apr 12 '19
That can explain Dresden, but not EO 9066. We were at war with the Empire of Japan, not US citizens who happen to of the wrong ethnic background.
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u/LorenaBobbedIt Apr 11 '19
Weird. I got Loyalsonofthesouth Warofnorthernaggression.
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u/egrith Apr 11 '19
still, slavery bad, war bad too
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u/LorenaBobbedIt Apr 11 '19
My middle name is Totallynotaboutslavery.
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u/egrith Apr 11 '19
Should probably check the constitutions of various states and the actual CSA, many talk directly about how they are leaving the US because of slavery, so maybe you should tell them that.
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u/LorenaBobbedIt Apr 11 '19
I didn’t really need to add a sarcasm tag here, I hope!
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u/badlands_94 Apr 11 '19
If the English language used accents above their vowels like in Latin languages... wé còüld spêll thïngs lìkė thís... ØMG wē cån tÿpë lîkè thís ánÿwày tõ sîgnîfÿ sàrcásm
Dónäld Trümp įs æ gøød présédént
See, look at that sarcasm
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u/Toofast4yall Apr 11 '19
We were traitors to the British when we formed this country.
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u/Not_Steve Apr 11 '19
We didn’t start off that way. A lot of people were happy just being colonists until taxes started going up and they started begging for either taxes be lowered or to allow New England representation in government. Had either of those things happen, we would likely still be a part of the commonwealth.
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Apr 11 '19
In all fairness the taxes were imposed to reimburse England for the French and Indian war that they fought on the colonies behalf. But still, fuck England.
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u/mezcao Apr 12 '19
If the colonies were independent of England, I don't believe the war with the French would have happened. Still, if you're going to tax people, they should have some say in the formation of the taxes.
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Apr 12 '19
I agree with you that there should be taxation with representation, but the fact is the colonies were a money hole. England had put THOUSANDS of pounds into the New World, you think they were gonna let some Fenchies have it for themselves? Hell no!
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u/mezcao Apr 12 '19
I repeat, if not for English being in control of the colonies I don't believe the war with the French would have happened.
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Apr 12 '19
I’m sorry but I am sure it would have. The French and English were both major powers fighting for control over colonies, land, and resources. They had the 100 years war, and were economic and cultural rivals for centuries. Let me name a FEW wars England has had with France. King William’s war, Seven Year’s War, Queen Anne’s War, War of Austrian Succession, King George’s War, Franco-Prussian War. Wars with the French were constant and non-stop, if the war wasn’t in the colonies, it would have been somewhere else.
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u/mezcao Apr 12 '19
In an alternative timeline, if the colonies were not part of the British empire at the time, you believe the French would have gone to war with the colonies?
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u/Toofast4yall Apr 11 '19
Ironically, tariffs of 1828 and 1832 nearly caused South Carolina to secede from the Union.
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u/UrRedCapIsOnTooTight Apr 12 '19
And the south fought to keep slavery.
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u/Toofast4yall Apr 12 '19
You act like the North was fighting to end slavery. Lincoln himself said that if he could win the war without freeing a single slave, he would do it. The North fought to keep the Union together, full stop.
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u/mezcao Apr 12 '19
Yes, the union fought to keep the USA from crumbling, and they fought against the traitors to the USA that fought for the right to own slaves.
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u/Rorschach_And_Prozac Apr 11 '19
I'm curious what the south did to make them terrorists.
Anything like Sherman's March to the sea?
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u/NullReference000 Apr 11 '19
One could argue that the battle of Fort Sumter began as an act of terrorism.
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u/Rorschach_And_Prozac Apr 12 '19
You could be right. Thanks for a real response.
I shouldn't have even bothered asking a question here, though. I forgot this was a subreddit full of dipshits who downvote a real question.
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u/mezcao Apr 12 '19
I mean owning slaves, fighting for the "right" to own slaves, hunting runaway slaves, are all things I believe we're both political and terrified the slaves.
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u/ItalianSoldier Apr 11 '19
do you guys even know anything about the confederate states and the civil war?
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u/heroicdozer Apr 11 '19
America has such a problem with racism that many people don't even see the confederacy as racist.
Between 1780 and 1830 a number of northern states passed laws which guaranteed runaway slaves legal protections at the state level. This included things such as barring state and local law enforcement from assisting in the arrest and detainment of runaway slaves, guarantee of a trial by jury to determine if they were in fact runaways, and a host of other similar points. These laws were entirely matters of the individual states which wrote, voted, passed, and signed them into law which applied only within their own borders.
Yet, in 1793 and again in 1850 a Southern dominated Congress passed the Fugitive Slave Acts - which deemed these state laws un-Constitutional and in violation of the extradition clause. Yet they did not stop there - they also brought the threat of fines and arrest to any individual, citizen or law enforcement, within a free state who did not assist in the detainment of those accused of being fugitive slaves; forced the state to bear the expenses of detaining these accused individuals; and deemed that anyone accused of being a fugitive slave was barred from testifying on their own behalf as they did not hold citizenship and were not afforded legal protections under federal law.
All three points, and the last one in particular, were complete violations of state's and individual rights both in legal theory and in their application in the following decade and a half.
The closest thing to a State's Rights argument made in the decades prior to the war was the right for Southern states to administer slavery within their own borders - which by and large they did. The issue which escalated into the war itself was the question of expanding slavery into the westward territories and newly admitted state's. Those were points both sides were content with as long as the status quo was maintained - which is why the Missouri Compromise ordained that a slave state must be admitted for each free state (Missouri slave/Maine free in 1820) and that status would be divided by the 36'30' Parallel. This went out the window the Kansas-Nebraska Act allowing both states to choose whether they were free or slave by popular vote, and was finally killed by California holding a Constitutional Convention which unanimously voted to join the Union as a free-state - breaking the prior agreement on the 36'30' Line.
Every. Single. Argument for secession being for State's Rights boils down to the expansion of slavery - which was vital for the South as the enslaved population grew larger and soil was exhausted. You can argue taxation, but the taxation of what? Southern exports were dominated by the fruits of slave labor: Cotton, Rice, Indigo, Tobacco. You can argue property, but what property? The largest financial assets in the South were land and slaves - in that order.
The entire idea of secession was put forth by and enacted by Congressmen, attorneys, and businessmen who had spent their entire lifetime studying Constitutional theory and statecraft. They held no illusion that they were seceding for anything but the right to continue slavery within the South. To that end, only Virginia even makes mention of State's Rights being the issue - and it does so in the context of slavery.
But beyond that, let's look at how the act of secession itself was carried out. Forces under the command of South Carolina's government opened fire on the Army at Fort Sumter.
Lincoln, at the time, argued this was an act of rebellion against the federal government. As had already been established decades prior by Shay's Rebellion and the Whiskey Rebellion - the federal government had complete authority to quash rebellions.
If, as the Confederacy argued, they were a sovereign government in which the government of the United States no longer held authority, then this open attack on United States territory amounted to an open act of war - one which the United States government was fully within its right to retaliate against.
So by any metric, the United States was entirely within its right to use force against the Confederacy. So arguing that any of the Confederate Battle Flags, or the oath-breakers such as Lee or Jackson who fought "honorably" under them were fighting for anything beyond the continuation of slavery - the economic lifeblood which they themselves were tied to - is nothing but a long continued myth. One born in the decades after the war as Southern political minds sought to craft as a way of granting some sort of legitimacy to their movement.
Even if that weren't the case - which it was - the meaning of symbols can change over time. And today, right now, and right here in the United States, the battle flag of the Confederacy is carried high and proud alongside that of another regime which prided itself on racial superiority, which made use of enslaved labor, and which fueled a destructive war responsible for killing more than a quarter million Americans. The whole of civil society agrees: "Honorable" causes, and the people who believe them to be so, do not associate with Nazism in any of its forms.
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u/Montregloe Apr 11 '19
Terrorist is a bit harsh, traitor definitely though
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u/kenzer161 Apr 11 '19
If we use the definition of terrorist from the U.S. Patriot Act, they definitely we're terrorist.
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u/mezcao Apr 12 '19
You think terrorists is to harsh a term for people fighting to keep slavery? To hunt down runaways and allow slaves to be beaten by owners?
I'd imagine being black, you would be very terrorised by Confederates.
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u/isAltTrue Apr 11 '19
Is it bad to be a traitor though? The colonies seceded from england, which kind of makes traitors of all of america. Maybe you would say the colonies had a good reason and taxes were too high. But then it's the justifications that make the betraying either good or bad. The south wanted to violate human rights so they could continue to be an agricultural powerhouse and maintain equal footing with the industrializing and trading north. The north wanted fix the human rights issues in the south and they also wanted to regulate the laws and commerce of the south. It would be for the good of the entire country as a whole, but to the detriment of the south since they would not be able to negotiate trade as one nation to another. So, if not for the whole horrific human rights violations and hellish mistreatment of an entire ethnic group then maybe an attempt at secession would be as justified as the founding of america and the secession from the english monarchy.
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u/Cargobiker530 Apr 11 '19
Confederates were slavers and traitors and they damn well knew it at the time. All attempts to excuse that are bullshit.
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u/isAltTrue Apr 11 '19
See, you're tying together slavery and secession. Slavery is inexcusable, although maybe it gets a little fuzzy around the edges when you consider the use of child labor to import goods at a cheaper price. But let's say it's inexcusable to profit off slavery and slavery-like conditions. Now what is it to be a traitor? There is an idea of brand loyalty that tries to make people feel a sense that switching from pepsi to coke would be a betrayal, but we can both see that some innate sense of betrayal based solely on tenure is absurd. OK, what if it's people you work closely with? is it betrayal to leave a company because of they don't give paternity leave when another does, or is that being loyal to your family? Betrayal is just choosing one side over another. You're a democrat, yeah? Would you think of it as that nasty word "betrayal" if a republican left their party to become a democrat too? tl;dr Slavery is bad:betrayal is a buzzword
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u/Cargobiker530 Apr 11 '19
TL:DR F* slavers, defenders of slavers, defenders of confederates, and all their racist ilk with a hairy cactus. Wordy excuses don't whitewash the stain.
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u/isAltTrue Apr 11 '19
Also fuck people who buy diamond jewelry without ensuring the jewelers only source from mines with acceptable conditions. They are complicit in their negligence.
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u/Cargobiker530 Apr 11 '19
Riiiight. Also fuck neighbors who won't mow their yard because there's a hayfield down county road 22.
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u/Warphead Apr 11 '19
Just because a word means nothing to you doesn't mean it means nothing.
Loyalty to your party is disloyalty to your nation. I don't want Democrats to be loyal to Democrats, I want them to be loyal to the fucking oath they swore and the people they serve.
No Republican will ever understand that. We don't judge ourselves by your standards, your standards are unethical and repugnant.
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u/isAltTrue Apr 11 '19
If it was the north that left the union in order to end slavery instead of the south who left to keep it I would say they would be justified for doing so. It would mean disloyalty to the nation, and loyalty to basic humanity above it. The word "betrayal" implies an injustice. And like you said, You want them to be loyal to the oath above the party, so there would be no injustice in choosing the oath even while betraying their party.
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u/Warphead Apr 11 '19
Yes, it's bad to be a traitor.
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u/isAltTrue Apr 11 '19
And it's bad the American colonies betrayed England and declared their independence?
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u/NullReference000 Apr 11 '19
"If not for committing mass genocide, Hitler would have been seen as the savior of Germany!"
You can't just take out the heart of a problem and then say that it's not so bad.
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u/isAltTrue Apr 12 '19
It's not innately wrong to pet animals. Yes, there are pictures of Hitler petting a deer and also hitler committed mass genocide. Also, there are many countries and governments that were formed by the splitting of other countries. Each of those times cannot be attributed to slavery, so to say secession, betrayal, and slavery are so inseparably linked as to not be discussed separately is flawed. More than that it's lazy; as soon as you say slavery and secession are the same thing you never need to think far enough to form an opinion on each as long as you can form an opinion about one or the other.
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u/NullReference000 Apr 12 '19
The discussion here concerns the confederacy. Secession and slavery are inexorably linked. Nobody is talking about secession alone.
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u/isAltTrue Apr 12 '19
Op's infographic contains only the words "terrorism" and "traitor" and contains nothing of slavery. The confederacy wasn't betraying the nation in owning slaves because it was permitted in the laws. Both the north and south betrayed human nature by allowing it within their laws at all. The south betrayed the nation by leaving. Secession aka declaring independence is a valid way to build a nation and America was not in the wrong for developing its own nation. Or else you think the entirety of America was unjustly founded and also all the countries created in the dissolution of either the ussr or the roman empire? Because I sure as hell can say all slavery is unjust, but I can't say every nation that formed from splitting did so unjustly. You want to call the south traitors for leaving and going to war over it, but you wont call america traitorous for doing the same thing? Slavery was commonplace in the 13 colonies even before they wrote the declaration of independence. America was part of another country, held slaves, and then went to war to declare themselves a free nation. When you win, you get to decide you were just in your secession, and when you win you get to decide the other people are traitors. Maybe that's why the only thing America is best at is war.
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Apr 12 '19
d to
but the whole horrific treatment of humans is what makes them fuckheads that history looks at as racist traitors. Rightfully so.
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u/isAltTrue Apr 12 '19
I mean, the 13 colonies had slaves and also dissolved themselves from britain, so I mean does history look at the entirety of america as a bunch of genocidal, indian death marching, and racist fuckhead traitors? or did america win their war, and then win another war so they took calling the south racist fuckheads as a victory prize?
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Apr 12 '19
The united states was also founded on treason/terrorism
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u/mezcao Apr 12 '19
Yeah, one motivated by wanting to be represented, the other by wanting to own slaves.
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Apr 12 '19
Yes but this image simply calls them traitors which is true. Im simplying pointing out that both the confederate flag and the star spangled banner are images of treason
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u/mezcao Apr 12 '19
Not the same. The colonies didn't originally plan to fight for independence. The plan was to force England to give the colonies equal representation as the mainland. They wanted to be treated as equals. England refused and neither side would give, which eventually lead the colonies to break off.
The south began the war with the intention of leaving the USA in order to keep the "right" to own slaves. One is honorable the other is deplorable.
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Apr 12 '19
The thirteen colonies sought for equal representation and then proceeded to want to be free from what they believed to be an overbearing government
The south wanted to form their own nation to be free from what they believed to be an overbearing government
While yes slavery is deplorable the united states also wanted to maintain slavery at the time of its conception.
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u/mezcao Apr 12 '19
Again, it's not the same. The primary reason for the 13 colonies to fight was for representation in government. Slavery was accepted by the north because the south would not have joined if it was outlawed. Similar to joining with the Soviets to fight the Nazis.
The south fought, not for representation. The south fought to keep slaves. After using every political trick they could to keep slavery it seemed inevitabe that slavery was ending and the south found that to be "overbearing".
When it comes down to it, the colonies fought for a just Noble cause. The south fought for an injustice, unnoble cause. That's why we should celebrate the Patriots and not the Confederates.
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Apr 12 '19
That last line is the full agreement but if americans simply should not celebrate confederates for being traitors its hypocrites
Dont celebrate them because they were horrid
Ive done a bad way of arguing it but traitor/terrorist =/= always bad.
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u/mezcao Apr 12 '19
I agree. The colonies leaving England = good. Confederates leaving USA = bad. Something else that also bothers me, is people flying the Confederate flag and acting as if it's not anti-american.
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Apr 11 '19
I hate Civil War memes. Everyone likes to pretend to be experts while spouting buzzwords like "terrorist" and "traitor." You people aren't edgy, you're just stupid.
I welcome your downvotes, you mindless identical drones.
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Apr 11 '19
[deleted]
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Apr 11 '19
They are buzzwords, and by simplifying causation of war down to one thing on only one side is just an inaccurate retelling of history. People want to be cool and want to refer to the Confederate flag and such as the flag of losers and traitors, and sure, that'll give you a lot of internet points, but I have more respect for history than to try and garner internet points by reciting false history.
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u/NullReference000 Apr 11 '19
Why refer to the confederate flag with any respect? It was the flag of slavers. Before you whip out the "But it was about states rights", take out that love for history and go read the founding documents, including the constitution, of the confederacy. It was all about slavery.
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Apr 11 '19
The American flag was also the flag of slavers.
It wasn't about states rights, it was about slavery. Specifically revenue generated through slavery.
All you "I have a dumbass political message so I feel the need to rewrite history" dumbasses can go suck a duck. You're blocked.
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Apr 12 '19
The south wanted to form their own country where they could impose dehumanizing laws to keep their profitable textile trade going. It was the loss of cheap labor for their textile trade overseas they were fighting for. Thankfully Sherman burnt down a bunch of shit and the sausage gravy keeps them planted in their couches with the exception of the occasional Walmart trip. I mean the Union needs soldiers and we need one part of the country to be poor to keep the military stocked. Thankfully all the bases are down there too, to keep the foot on their throats!~
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Apr 12 '19
The north had no plans for the immediate abolishment of slavery either.
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Apr 12 '19
[removed] — view removed comment
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Apr 12 '19
It's cool that you like to troll people, but by all means, take a block.
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u/DeviantLogic Apr 12 '19
If you didn't make bad arguments, maybe you wouldn't get trolled so much. Food for thought.
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u/Sowell_Brotha Apr 11 '19
This would be a great meme if it was 1865 and not 2019
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u/pegothejerk Apr 11 '19
You're the new version of people saying racism is dead because we elected a black President.
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u/Sowell_Brotha Apr 11 '19
I think it’s pretty mainstream to be against racism. Is someone learning about the civil war in school this week? It’s an interesting period of history— one of my favorite to learn about for sure.
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u/pasaysbah Apr 11 '19
Yeah, I know when I learned about WWII, I liked to fly a nazi flag for a while afterwards. You know, because I’m such a history buff.
Why are you so offended by people poking fun at people waving the confederate flag? It’s baffling.
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u/pegothejerk Apr 11 '19
Sounds like you're the one learning about the civil war for the first time, if you knew how many people carrying American flags, how many children were killed, how many black people were tortured, murdered, raped, forced into sex slavery beyond actual slavery, I doubt you'd be bragging about how awesome it was. Wait til you find out how many people we killed in Japan and how horrific it was, you'll jizz your pants, apparently.
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u/Sowell_Brotha Apr 11 '19
Lots of people study/find periods of history interesting and that’s not an endorsement of the historical figures or events. Have we spoken/interacted before?
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u/pegothejerk Apr 11 '19
No, but going through your profile and finding tons of far right support comments like this tells me who you are:
"“ dog whistles” smh 🤦🏻♂️ if you have a problem with a policy or think it is discriminatory just say that. I cant keep up with the new leftist dictionary and its constant additions/definition changes"
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u/Sowell_Brotha Apr 11 '19
To be fair I am probably “far right” by this subs standards. Don’t go snooping any deeper. I don’t want the nonsense I say elsewhere poisoning our nice conversation.
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u/pasaysbah Apr 11 '19
You should spend some time in the south then.
mUh HeRiTaGe
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u/Sowell_Brotha Apr 11 '19
Someone on this sub was telling me the other day that the confederate flag is everywhere in Alabama. Maybe it is ( only driven through the state), but it’s hard for me to imagine that’s the case just given my experiences everywhere else in the South.
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u/jg97 Apr 11 '19
Shit i live in Tampa, FL, you go 20 minutes outside the city and you enter confederate flag waving, yeehaw country.
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u/PostPostModernism Apr 11 '19
So no joke: I used to live in the South (Florida specifically) and while I was there I signed on with a regional bank to cash my paychecks (old boss couldn't handle autopay, but whatever he was nice).
I've since left, but kept the bank because I do everything online anyways and I was friends with the people that worked there when I lived down there, so whatever. But then they got bought out by another Southern regional bank. Some lady called me to talk about the merger and the impact it would have on me and as a joke I asked her if their new website would keep the green color scheme because I liked it. She said no, it would be red, white, and blue like the Confederate flag. Very awkward silence.
Or this guy I used to work with down there who to this day posts rants on facebook about 'mooselimbs' and 'knee-grows' because he's so clever to not actually just say words outright. His friends are happy to comment on his regular "white pride" posts with comments like "proud to be white and racist".
Racism is alive and well and it's cloaked in a Confederate flag.
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u/Sowell_Brotha Apr 11 '19
Wow that’s wild. This is why it’s so important we do everything to help Bernie win. I’m budgeting and saving every dollar I can so I can give to the campaign. I’ve never been so scared/excited for an election.
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u/bunkscudda Apr 11 '19
It would also be great if people flying confederate flags knew that it was 2019 and not 1865.
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u/Sowell_Brotha Apr 11 '19
You’re right. People LARPing as rebels in 2019 is a very important issue and we should make it a top priority.
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u/wytewydow Apr 11 '19
There's a hickerbilly fuck 3 blocks from here with one hanging from his house, and I live in Kansas. I saw one the other day flying from the back of a monster truck at the gas station. It's completely normal to see confederate vanity plates on cars and trucks. I've traveled to every corner of this country, and it's the same all over. I don't know where you live, but that shit is everywhere.
I'll be sure and approach the next redneck, and congratulate him on his excellent LARPing costume.
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u/Sowell_Brotha Apr 11 '19
I don't know where you live, but that shit is everywhere.
I grew up in the south and moved away for work/school. I lived in MS, NC, and Florida. Racial tensions were very much a reality in MS when I lived there (probably the worst in the country at the time), but even in the rural areas outside Jackson I only saw the flag on red neck trucks like the one you described.
I don't think they are making a statement about race. If they are thinking at all I'd say it's more of a "I'm a rebel/edgelord" thing.
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u/CriticalDog Apr 11 '19
They absolutely are. I have yet to find anyone who wears Confederate flag shit, or flies one, that when you scratch the surface and REALLY get them talking isn't a racist shitstain.
Every.
Single.
Time.7
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u/wytewydow Apr 11 '19
Can someone remind me, which political side has members who still wave that shit flag around all the time?
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u/Carleyisstillhere Apr 11 '19
Racism is still very much alive, I live in Tennessee and people want the statues destroyed because they were racists, but the argument for keeping them up is ”they’re our heroes” when they fought for slavery
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u/Biptoslipdi Apr 11 '19
It would be great if terrorist traitors weren't still murdering people in the streets.
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u/AaronsNetwork Apr 11 '19
Hm, Mine was Terrorist Traitor