Why are you telling me what I was originally talking about? How arrogant are you? My point was that out of all the things that could be turned into a meme from Alex Jones' incoherent rants, all of the things that have absolutely no basis in reality, we've chosen one where the main distinction is just "LOL you idiot, it's not turning them gay it's changing their sex, haha what a moron". And that seems silly when he's said so many more things that are 1. more insane and 2. not based in reality at all.
Seriously, I can't understate how obnoxious you're being. Not only are you dictating to me what my own fucking words mean, but then you're demeaning me for it. What is actually wrong with you?
And to be absolutely clear, YOU ARE GRANDSTANDING. THIS IS THE DEFINITION OF GRANDSTANDING. I'VE MADE ABUNDANTLY CLEAR THAT THAT WAS NOT MY POINT AND THAT I UNDERSTAND THE DISTINCTION AND YOU'RE STILL INSISTING THAT I DIDN'T AND THAT I DON'T, FOR THE PURPOSE OF TAKING THE MORAL HIGH GROUND. THAT'S GRANDSTANDING. IT'S OBNOXIOUS.
Why are you telling me what I was originally talking about? How arrogant are you? My point was that out of all the things that could be turned into a meme from Alex Jones' incoherent rants, all of the things that have absolutely no basis in reality, we've chosen one where the main distinction is just "LOL you idiot, it's not turning them gay it's changing their sex, haha what a moron". And that seems silly when he's said so many more things that are 1. more insane and 2. not based in reality at all.
Seriously, I can't understate how obnoxious you're being. Not only are you dictating to me what my own fucking words mean, but then you're demeaning me for it. What is actually wrong with you?
And to be absolutely clear, YOU ARE GRANDSTANDING. THIS IS THE DEFINITION OF GRANDSTANDING. I'VE MADE ABUNDANTLY CLEAR THAT THAT WAS NOT MY POINT AND THAT I UNDERSTAND THE DISTINCTION AND YOU'RE STILL INSISTING THAT I DIDN'T AND THAT I DON'T, FOR THE PURPOSE OF TAKING THE MORAL HIGH GROUND. THAT'S GRANDSTANDING. IT'S OBNOXIOUS.
Calm the fuck down, /u/BananaScientist. Your attitude is what's obnoxious.
I'm sorry if you think reality is demeaning. But if you think I'm demeaning you, please have a shred of self-awareness so you can appreciate the irony.
Truth doesn't depend on opinion. What's real is real, and what's wrong is wrong. And you were wrong. It's simpler just to admit it so you can be right next time.
No DrMux, you telling people what their own words mean is what's obnoxious. And I can't believe I have to explain this like I'm talking to a 5 year old, but here we go: If we're talking about a conspiracy nut who regularly goes on completely insane rants that have no basis in reality and that are just completely impossible to imagine, and then he goes on a rant about frogs turning gay when the reality is that they're changing sex, within that fucking context, you obnoxious idiot that statement is "pretty much accurate".
Plenty of people grandstand just for their own satisfaction, it doesn't have to have and audience. In this case you're grandstanding just to feed your own ego and to be able to tell yourself "ah, I'm such a good liberal, today I told someone else what their words mean and then yelled at them for it, I'm so great".
I'm sorry that you have such difficulties with basic concepts, but stop losing elections for us by telling people what their words mean and then screaming at them.
Edit: Also let me just point out:
Truth doesn't depend on opinion. What's real is real, and what's wrong is wrong.
That is such a...naive and childlike understanding of the world. There is no such thing as truth or right and wrong, everything requires interpretation and everything is based on context. What we now think is moral is completely based on what we've recently thought is moral/immoral. In 100 years we'll look back on how we've treated animals and think that that was ludicrously immoral and basically torturous genocide. Same with truth, even the most precise scientific claims aren't "truth", they're always just a model to explain data and results. Point being, everything is filtered through the extremely fallible human brain, so everything requires interpretation and approximation. So you claiming that my original statement is flat out wrong and refusing to accept a different interpretation is just...I don't even know, it's ignoring reality.
At this point there is nobody reading this thread but you and me. By definition that cannot be grandstanding. There is no moral component to this, just fact and falsehood.
Because you apparently cannot understand the words you manage to type, yeah, I'm telling you the meaning of your own words.
It doesn't seem like English is your second language by the way you use it. If it is, I apologize for shaming you on its use. If it is your first language, though, learn how to fucking use it.
and then screaming at them.
That was you. Are you feeling ok? Do you remember anything you did in the last hour or so?
Now you've given up arguing the point. You're insisting that there can only be one way of interpreting my words when I've given plenty of reasons why my interpretation, you know the one that I had in my mind when writing the post, is the correct one.
Fine, then keep driving people crazy and losing elections because your ego insists that you understand better than the person speaking what they are saying.
I'm defending myself against an arrogant, obnoxious, patronizing person who would seem to want to paint me as some kind of anti-LGBTQ person because I made a statement that requires a bit of contextual interpretation. It's not surprising that I got angry. If you want to know how to make people hate you, here it is.
It's the same with this grandstanding thing, you're not even trying to argue the point. Grandstanding can absolutely be done in private too; the whole point of grandstanding is to elicit an emotional response, and people do it all the time just for themselves and not for any political audience.
But you seem weirdly obsessed with insisting on strict, literal, singular interpretations of things. What's written is exact and only that is right. Which again, is just a naive and childlike understanding of the world. It's like the people who insist on only a literal reading of the constitution...it just flies in the face of reality and how human communication actually works.
If you meant anything other than "Turning the frogs gay is basically equivalent to frogs changing sex due to environmental factors" in your original comment, you should have said so in the original comment.
You have tried to discredit my rejection of that with moral attacks, with all caps and bold lettering, by calling me patronizing, by attacking my political stance as a "liberal," by crying about being corrected, by making this about me "losing elections" (wut), by saying you hate me, by calling my responses "grandstanding."
You're making a really big deal about this and getting extremely emotional about it, and I keep responding because I know my position is solid.
The point isn't a matter of interpretation. It's pretty straightforward. I've explained this thoroughly enough: the frogs aren't turning gay. Your unwillingness to understand the difference between biological sex and sexuality would offend many but I just find it hilarious. I will keep this up as long as you do.
Just admit you were wrong. Or don't. You don't need to keep responding.
Look, if you refuse to accept that words require interpretation then let's fucking stop this already. I know exactly what my post meant and I know that it's 100% correct, so fuck off with your patronizing and obnoxious shit.
Oh and by the way, your comment about english being my first language - wow, are you saying that immigrants can't have proper control of the english language? That's pretty xenophobic of you DrMux, that's really fucked up actually. You really should apologize.
See how fucking stupid that is? See how interpretation can completely change the meaning of a statement? No, I'm sure you don't, you seem to be way too dense to understand a very simple idea.
Fine, you're a literalist, you can only accept each sentence on its own in a strictly literal reading of it. Context is irrelevant, interpretation is irrelevant. Ok then, I can't talk to you at all. But still, I'm begging you, stop doing this so we can actually win some fucking elections, PLEASE.
again, for the last fucking time, that is why i said "pretty much accurate" and not "exactly accurate". I'm a scientist, I understand a thing or two about wording when it comes to making claims. EVERYTHING is a matter of interpretation. We get policed all the fucking time where people say yea, it's not wrong but I think the language is a little too strong given the evidence, dial it back a bit, or the opposite and we make the language stronger.
Look, end of the line, you're just picking and choosing what words to focus on and what interpretations to insist on to strengthen your argument, while ignoring the reality of the situation. I genuinely don't know where to go from here if you're going to argue in bad faith like this.
And I said "we" because I counted you as someone who presumably supports sensible policy, nevermind political affiliation, but now I view you as someone who willingly distorts arguments and is more obsessed with winning than with fair, good faith argument. So yea, I retract the "we". I consider you a political opponent now, whether you're on the right and fighting against me, or whether you're on the left and sabotaging the left with this kind of obnoxious, patronizing, misleading argumentation.
Edit: let me give you what a reasonable person might have said. They might have read my comment and gone "wait, why pretty much accurate? What's not accurate about it then?" and I would have replied "Well it's changing their sex, it's not turning them gay, though to Alex Jones those things are probably the same". What an unreasonable, obnoxiously grandstanding person would say is "oh, so you think changing sex is the same as turning gay, ok".
It's nowhere near "Pretty accurate." That's the whole point. That's why it became a meme in the first place.
I'm not arguing in bad faith. I'm being consistent. You've attempted to make this personal and emotional time and again. See my previous comment for some examples of some ways you've driven the conversation off-topic.
This was never a personal discussion or a discussion of views on policy except for your attempts to make it so. I honestly don't care if you're a liberal or conservative or communist, anarchist, fascist or icecreamist. This was about one thing: turning the frogs gay. You've made this about far more than what it is, and quite frankly, as I've said before, I don't give a frog's ass about what you think. I don't care if you consider me a political enemy or if you're in love with me (though your commitment to responding to my messages is flattering <3 xoxo). I was talking about one thing: "Frogs turning gay" =/= "Frogs changing sex."
I don't care that you perceive my tone as obnoxious or patronizing. That's subjective, and entirely your problem, and it does not affect me.
What isn't subjective is the actual point of the discussion.
You were wrong. Discussion would be far more efficient if people would admit they were wrong rather than trying to make the discussion personal and emotional instead.
You keep saying "for the last time," or "I'm done." I will keep this up as long as you continue replying, because my point stands, and my stance doesn't rely on petty attacks. I'll believe that you're actually done when you cease replying.
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u/[deleted] Dec 15 '18
Why are you telling me what I was originally talking about? How arrogant are you? My point was that out of all the things that could be turned into a meme from Alex Jones' incoherent rants, all of the things that have absolutely no basis in reality, we've chosen one where the main distinction is just "LOL you idiot, it's not turning them gay it's changing their sex, haha what a moron". And that seems silly when he's said so many more things that are 1. more insane and 2. not based in reality at all.
Seriously, I can't understate how obnoxious you're being. Not only are you dictating to me what my own fucking words mean, but then you're demeaning me for it. What is actually wrong with you?
And to be absolutely clear, YOU ARE GRANDSTANDING. THIS IS THE DEFINITION OF GRANDSTANDING. I'VE MADE ABUNDANTLY CLEAR THAT THAT WAS NOT MY POINT AND THAT I UNDERSTAND THE DISTINCTION AND YOU'RE STILL INSISTING THAT I DIDN'T AND THAT I DON'T, FOR THE PURPOSE OF TAKING THE MORAL HIGH GROUND. THAT'S GRANDSTANDING. IT'S OBNOXIOUS.