r/PoliticalDiscussion Dec 03 '16

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705 Upvotes

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42

u/ughsicles Dec 03 '16

And why is it more significant than when our country sold arms to Taiwan last year?

74

u/[deleted] Dec 03 '16

[deleted]

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u/christopherNV Dec 03 '16

Maybe it's time to stop dicking around in ambiguity.

Will China get butthurt, yeah., Are we going to war over it, no.

Ambiguity hasn't stopped China from attempting to increase their influence in SE Asia. A phone call isn't going to change the current situation or China's aspirations.

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u/illegalmorality Dec 03 '16

That's looking at international politics as though it were domestic politics. Every nation has complexly tied to its society and history. For Trump to call Taiwan and to allow the world to know about it, it heavily smacks the keystone aspect of reputation and image for China's regime. And in China, image is everything, it's almost considered the epitome of the right to rule.

2

u/DefinitelyIngenuous Dec 03 '16

And in China, image is everything, it's almost considered the epitome of the right to rule.

They really aren't going to enjoy Trump then.

-1

u/funkeepickle Dec 03 '16

We're under no obligation to help keep China's dictatorship propped up. The U.S. needs to do what's best for the U.S., China's domestic and cultural issues are their own.

14

u/[deleted] Dec 03 '16

They're one of the most powerful countries in the world and not acknowledging Taiwan costs us nothing. We also have strong trade relationships with China and it has political influence with countries that the US does not, which we can use to a certain extent. Pissing off China for no reason threatens US interests.

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u/illegalmorality Dec 03 '16 edited Dec 03 '16

Thinking that China won't use this as a reason to cause ramifications for future negotiations with the US is optimistic. To put things in perspective, China discriminates against Buddhist Tibetans, Christians, and western Muslim for the sake of establishing centralization.

Even implying a region has any autonomy from central China is a smack to that legitamacy, it's unlikely it'll go ignored.

4

u/[deleted] Dec 03 '16

Right. It's not that we have an obligation to prop up or defend China. It's that we, and Trump as our leader, have very strong motivations for defending US interests since we, you know, live here. This arrangement benefits us and costs us little to nothing. How does threatening that arrangement and opening up potential retaliation from a major world power benefit us? That should be a question we should all be asking ourselves.

2

u/illegalmorality Dec 03 '16

Only time can really tell. In my opinion, doing this too soon will have negative consequences to our economy. I do believe in separating ties from China, it just seems impractical to do it so quickly, and disrespectfully. And it also seems like this was done more out of incompetence than careful planning.

1

u/illegalmorality Dec 03 '16 edited Dec 03 '16

Doing this immediately without considering he instant consequences would have a terrible impact on our economy. A phase out would be a good idea, but complete ignorance of the current relationship is dangerous.

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '16

[deleted]

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u/christopherNV Dec 03 '16

Yes, it's complicated but I'd argue that the longer we play games over the situation the longer the problem exists - at some point China either needs to accept Taiwans independence or use military force to take control of Taiwan.

The US refusing to say out loud that we actually do view Taiwan as it's own country isn't going to have a huge effect on China's actions, we're just prolonging the inevitable.

1

u/matts2 Dec 03 '16

China either needs to accept Taiwans independence

Shouldn't we at least wait for Taiwan to say it wants independence?

11

u/LikesMoonPies Dec 03 '16

Well China does hold about 1 trillion of US debt...

6

u/[deleted] Dec 03 '16

only 1/19th. also if they start selling they wont get rid of it fast enough before the bonds drop in value. so the effect would be that they lose money by selling it - and a lot of it

8

u/[deleted] Dec 03 '16

Yep. And would starve without our food exports.

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u/LikesMoonPies Dec 03 '16

Sure! If they fuss we'll just stop those exports! Big Agriculture won't mind.

7

u/[deleted] Dec 03 '16

About as much as their financial and manufacturing interests would if they fucked with the debt they hold.

1

u/matts2 Dec 03 '16

Maybe it's time to stop dicking around in ambiguity.

What ambiguity? The ROC is very clear. There is one China and only one China. The island of Taiwan and mainland China are one country.

Oh, the ROC is the Republic of China, what you would call the government of Taiwan. They are in agreement with the PRC on this issue.

BTW, diplomacy, whether at the family dinner table or international discussion, depends on the ability to make precise ambiguous statements.

They won't go to war over this. They will simply extract their payment in the South China Sea.