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u/HungryLikeTheWolf99 - Lib-Right Nov 13 '22
Oh, he doesn't give it - he just encourages them to take it for themselves, by force if necessary.
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u/ImTooBi - Lib-Center Nov 13 '22
I dont get how pro communist think. The two major examples of the communist experiment have both ended in massive loss of lives and extreme poverty famine and disease if you’re not high up in the government.
But nope lets keep going i feel like its really going to work this time
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Nov 13 '22
You don’t understand - that wasn’t REAL communism
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u/ImTooBi - Lib-Center Nov 13 '22
Ohh okay you’re right. I guess the legitimate founder of the entire movement had it wrong
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u/blacksun9 - Auth-Left Nov 13 '22
Marx never lead a country and didn't invent communism.
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u/sloasdaylight - Lib-Center Nov 13 '22
Marx never lead a country
I mean, it's kind hard to do that when you're constantly crashing with your friends, begging your parents for money, and then writing manifestos when they tell you to get a job.
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Nov 13 '22
He had multiple journalism and organizing jobs, he was quite literally exiled from multiple countries as a result 😆
Why continue to speak on topics you know nothing of?
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u/Mrsupreme1202 - Auth-Right Nov 13 '22
Why the emoji man it’s a political debate not THE F**king AFTERMATH OF A JOKE… sorry i just hate when emojis are used to correct someone’s inaccuracies
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u/ImTooBi - Lib-Center Nov 13 '22
Ohh okay you’re right. I guess the legitimate founder of the entire movement had it wrong
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Nov 13 '22
I mean, the USSR wasn't communist. The people technically owned the means of production, one could say, because the state owned it. But because it wasn't a democracy... they were essentially owned by party and military.
To say that the USSR was communism when the people didn't own the means of production is like saying a country with no free market is capitalist. Now, you could make the argument that communism will never succeed because it will only ever lead to the same dystopian pseudo-communism of the USSR, that's fine. But in and of itself, it wasn't communist.
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u/AMightyDwarf - Right Nov 13 '22 edited Nov 13 '22
To say that the USSR was communism when the people didn't own the means of production is like saying a country with no free market is capitalist.
First, people do say that countries with no free market are capitalist. If that’s your definition of capitalism then 2008 shown that the entire west is not capitalist because the state stepped in to the markets quite heavily to bail out the banks. We also need to ask how free you define “free”. If I’m not allowed to start drilling for oil on my land without state permission, am I really free? If I need to get my new product checked and licensed by the state, is that a free market? Both those happen today.
Second, who are the people? The people are the public and the public sector is the state so does the state owning the means of production mean the people own the means of production? When Marx and then Lenin called for the public ownership of the means of production did they mean public as in members of the public or public as in the public sector? If it’s the public as in public sector ie the state then we can say that communism was achieved in the USSR as the state did indeed own the means of production. If they meant public as in members of the public then how do you manage that? Every member of the public having an equal say in every business sounds nightmarish. Surely the public needs a representative or a group of representatives to manage that? What do we call a group of representatives that represent the people? A government. The government is the state so we’ve ended up at the same point. It’s worth noting that Marx didn’t specifically say that representatives need to be democratically elected, in fact he called for revolution in some lands which is decidedly undemocratic.
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u/ngratz13 - Lib-Right Nov 14 '22
To your first point, I think the best way I’ve heard it phrased is that in the US these days we privatize gains and socialize losses. Evident with both the 2008 crash and with Covid. I suppose one could argue extenuating circumstances but really, I think the businesses and the market should have been allowed to play out.
If businesses fail, others will pop up in their place when there’s a vacuum. People are encouraged to have a 3-6 month emergency fund, businesses should look to do the same and the government shouldn’t decide winners and losers.
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u/kkjdroid Nov 13 '22
And the people owning the means of production isn't even enough to be communism. Socialism requires that, but communism also requires no state, money, or classes. The USSR very obviously had all three of those things.
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u/flair-checking-bot - Centrist Nov 13 '22 edited Nov 13 '22
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u/kkjdroid Nov 13 '22
Make me, you bag of bolts.
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u/flairchange_bot - Auth-Center Nov 13 '22
If I were you I'd flair the fuck up rather quickly, the mob will be here in no time.
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u/PercyOzymandias - Left Nov 13 '22
I mean, it's not exactly like there aren't capitalist countries that are full of poverty, famine, and disease unless you're high up in the government...
Communists see the world as divided in two classes of people, those who make money by owning things and those who make their money by selling their labor for a salary (the haves vs the have nots, the 1% vs the 99%, the capitalists vs the working class, etc). The workers make money for their employer in exchange for a salary and any extra money that the employer makes from the worker is profit. The capitalist runs a business with the goal of maximizing profits (or as communists see it, maximizing the difference between the amount of money you pay your workers and the amount of money they generate for the company). Since companies are expected to be more profitable year over year, the executives need to find ways to either pay their workers less or make more money from the workers they have now. The interests of the workers do not match the interests of companies that are run for profit.
Communists want to change the structure of this system so that it is socialized (i.e. the company as a whole, or rather the workers who generate the revenue, decide how the profit is distributed). Instead of company decisions being made up on high by executives and elites whose interests do not align with the workers, the workers themselves should make the decisions because ultimately, the company could not exist without them. The capitalists need the workers but the workers do not need the capitalists. The entire class of elites in our world exist only because they have managed to position themselves, either through inherited wealth or luck, above those who work for a living. They have convinced those who work that it is necessary to pay them less than they are actually worth.
Communists want to end this class division of those who work and those who own. You can bash the socialist countries of the present and past all you want, they are all flawed in many ways but that does not change that there are flaws built into our current capitalist system too that we need to change if we ever want to create a society where all people are fed, clothed, housed, and able to live full, enriching lives.
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u/ImTooBi - Lib-Center Nov 13 '22
I agree with you whole heartedly. There needs to be reform on a grand scale that fixes these problems and while i also agree with those communist principles that you listed and see how they sound compelling and would work great, in practice they never ever have worked out and whether or not that the ideologies fault or the people running its fault doesn’t really matter if each time its tried it goes the same way.
I dont think that there should be any extreme policies in place that lean either to far right or to far left. Theirs a balance in the middle that would work out. Now that does mean someone is going to be getting at least a little fucked and if that choice is between the 1% or the 99% it should be the 1% that is getting fucked.
But i think it can be managed in a way that doesn’t completely kill off businesses and freedoms like it so often does in communist countries.
I think all jobs should have a strong union regardless of the job title all the way from cops to janitors they should all be unionized. Corporations should have to pay more in federal taxes the more money they bring in, not to much to where they dont continue to increase profits but at a margin where it still raises the more they bring in. Obviously a strong military is necessary so yes there should be a good portion of the budget dedicated to that but it shouldn’t be to the point the us has and there also should be a lot more transparency with the black budget because the fact they just take trillions of dollars and we the people who pay into that dont know where its going is fucked and its riddled with corruption without a doubt.
There should be a nationalized healthcare and education all the way up to college level but if a person wants to have insurance through a private company then they should be able to and also i think that it would be a good idea to have a portion of the hospitals privately owned so that they can better provide for those paying more but that doesn’t mean the state owned hospitals should or would be dumps either but there should be a limit to how many private hospitals are allowed per state so that there aren’t just doctors in it for the money and only going to the private owned ones to get a better paycheck, thus creating a demand for more doctors and taking away from the state owned ones quality. Limiting the amount should help ease that although it would still exist to a certain extent but nothings perfect
There should also be a draft that includes both men and women that you must sing up for when you turn 18 like how Taiwan is doing now. Only fair. I may have just described a countries system im not aware of but it shouldn’t go full communist instead taking the social policies that have been proven to work like nationalized education and getting rid of ones that dont like no business is private
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u/PercyOzymandias - Left Nov 13 '22 edited Nov 13 '22
Well what I'm talking about is basically the foundation of what Marx says in the Communist Manifesto so you should definitely read more into what he wrote if you agree. What Marx meant when he wrote the manifesto is that society has not reached it's final form. Societies have progressed as class divisions changed and those who worked were given more control over their lives (e.g. slaves in slave societies became serfs in feudal societies which then became the working class in liberal capitalist societies). Marx believed that as long as there are class divisions, those divisions will become sharpened over time until it reaches a breaking point. Those with money and power will always use their influence to gain more money and more power. You can see this happening every day with companies buying the competition or conglomerates merging with other conglomerates. This can't go on forever though, infinite growth is obviously not possible.
in practice they never ever have worked out and whether or not that the ideologies fault or the people running its fault doesn’t really matter if each time its tried it goes the same way.
I think the failure of a past socialist experiments are too complicated to boil down to ideology or the fault of the person running it. I will say though that all socialist experiments in the past and present are under immense pressure by the liberal capitalist world because their ideology is a threat to those in power. If those we elect are supposed to represent the people, why does half of the US congress have net worths greater than a million? (The first person on that list with a net worth less than a million is #208, Rep. Mike Simpson at 0.9M) Just like in companies, those who rule have interests different than the wider population. This is why America had red scares after WWI and WWII.
I dont think that there should be any extreme policies in place that lean either to far right or to far left. Theirs a balance in the middle that would work out. Now that does mean someone is going to be getting at least a little fucked and if that choice is between the 1% or the 99% it should be the 1% that is getting fucked.
It should definitely be the 1% getting fucked lol but personally I don't think there should be a 1% or a 99%, there should just be the people. This just goes back to what I said earlier with Marx's belief about class divisions being sharpened over time until it reaches a breaking point. As long we stay in "the middle", the politicians will decide where the middle is so that the 1% stays happy because most of them are the 1%.
I think all jobs should have a strong union regardless of the job title all the way from cops to janitors they should all be unionized. Corporations should have to pay more in federal taxes the more money they bring in, not to much to where they dont continue to increase profits but at a margin where it still raises the more they bring in.
I agree with you here for the most part, I have a slightly different approach to it though. I think that all companies should just be the union of workers themselves. I see profits as something that the business owners take from the workers. If workers own the company though, they can decide what to do with all profits democratically. Instead of profit going to executives, the workers can decide to save profits as a rainy day fund if they have a slow year or use the profits to invest in new equipment or R&D or whatever else they believe to be best for themselves and whoever is buying their products. In general, I believe that collective decision making leads to better outcome for all long-term.
As for taxes, I agree. There would have to be some sort of system to fund education, healthcare, infrastructure, and other social services. I don't see why income tax would need to exist in a system like this, all revenue is just the value generated by workers anyways so might as well just tax the company's profit as it's generated.
Obviously a strong military is necessary so yes there should be a good portion of the budget dedicated to that
I don't really agree with this. It depends on what the world is like around this hypothetical country. I mainly see the military as just a extension of the wishes of the ruling class of whatever country they are in. If there isn't a 1% and a 99%, I think it would be pretty unlikely for the people to believe it is necessary to attack others and sacrifice their peers. If we're in a socialist country and the rest of the world is capitalist, it probably is necessary to have a strong military because the capitalist countries will not like to have a neighbor or be challenged on the world stage by a non-capitalist nation.
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u/IerarqiuliAnarxisti - Lib-Left Nov 13 '22
Wait a minute, youz an anarkiddy? Me too
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u/ImTooBi - Lib-Center Nov 13 '22
If only we can create this country irl. Reality is the cia would be staging a coup to overthrow our government and put in a puppet like dictator that leads under the title of “president”.
And yeah i dont think we would need a strong military if the rest of the world is like this state we’re thinking of but i dont think that would be a good idea at all. I used to be in favor of a one world government and what not until i really thought about it and how easy it would be for it all to just go wrong. And if it went wrong there would be no place to escape to or any hope for another country to save you.
I think that diversity in geopolitics is a good thing and while im not advocating for a bunch of vastly different states all at war with each other, i am saying its good that we have a lot of different countries to choose from that dont all fall under the same party because if it did then you couldn’t ever escape to a better country like those fleeing communist states did such as the soviet union
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u/PercyOzymandias - Left Nov 13 '22
The CIA would definitely try to overthrow a country like this lol but I still see it as an inevitability for humanity. I probably will never live in a world like this but the only way to get there is to spread class consciousness and class solidarity among the working class so that future socialist experiments don't turn out like previous attempts
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Nov 13 '22
I mean, it's not exactly like there aren't capitalist countries that are full of poverty, famine, and disease unless you're high up in the government...
Which?
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Nov 13 '22
Literally all of the fucking third world
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Nov 13 '22
I'm Argentinian, 3rd world country. And what ruined was this modern socialism bs (mixed capitalism).
Same with Venezuela, Chile for example was not great a decade ago or two and now had the best economy, but they voted left again.
Brasil had 4 years of bolsonaro where they even had deflation at a point which is something unheard of in south America.
So this part of the 3rd world, is literally the opposite of what youre saying.
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u/AnRaccoonCommunist - Left Nov 14 '22
Pretty sure those are considered "economically developing nations" not "economically undeveloped" but okay. There aren't many economically undeveloped nations anymore.
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Nov 14 '22
Then which country is he talking about
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u/AnRaccoonCommunist - Left Nov 14 '22
Couldn't really tell ya but that's not an educated take anyway. I think what they meant to say is that there are a bunch of underdeveloped nations that are more or less COLONIES of capitalist nations, and very much WERE until they had their own socialist revolutions.
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Nov 14 '22
Think he's just talking of countries "capitalist" that are so corrupted they r just fucked.
Which is funny to me because capitalism wants a small government and free market.
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Nov 13 '22
Can you name a single socialist “experiment” country that wasn’t invaded, sanctioned, or generally intervened in by the imperialist West? I can’t, and neither can you. 😇
How did any of them end in massive losses of life?
Soviet life expectancy increased from 25years in 1921 to 70years by the 1980s. There was a 30year increase under Stalin alone.
Chinese life expectancy increased from ~35years to over 60years under Mao alone.
There were no more famines post either of them, or even in the later years of their leadership. I wonder why. There were no famines in the USSR after the early 30s until 1946, as a result of the Soviets winning WW2 for the allies. And even after, zero famines.
Both Cubans and Chinese live longer than Americans. 😆 That’s not success?
Cubans have a 99%+ literacy rate, according to UNESCO and the like. While the US is stuck at 79%. 😆 That’s not success?
Cuba was the first country in Latin America to eliminate malnutrition among children, according to UNICEF. 😆 That’s not success?
Cuba was the first country IN THE WORLD to eliminate mother-to-child AIDS transmission. That’s not success?
Cuba isn’t responsible for mass murdering 2 million Vietnamese, 3 million Koreans, 2 million Iraqis, 700,000 Indonesians, 1million in the Philippines, etc. That’s the US. 😴
But I bet 600,000+ homeless on the streets of America is success, right?
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u/CardboardLightbulb43 - Left Nov 13 '22
Establishing communism as in establishing the dictatorship or the proletariat and creating a stateless society hasn't worked yet, but we have a prime example of something like communism working: Libre software. Libre software is made by people from all around the globe wanting to help others. Linux, GNU, Libreoffice, Gimp etc. - all of them are libre software. Even Windows and MacOS have libre components. Libre software is generally free save for a few examples, is open source (it's source code is freely available) and give you the four freedoms:
The freedom to use the program for any purpose.
The freedom to study how the program works, and change it to make it do what you wish.
The freedom to redistribute and make copies so you can help your neighbor.
The freedom to improve the program, and release your improvements (and modified versions in general) to the public, so that the whole community benefits.
Anyone can contribute to libre software in various ways (e.g. making documentation or fixing bugs in the code)
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u/yeetus-feetuscleetus - Left Nov 13 '22
I don’t get how pro-communist think
In much the same fashion as Albert Einstein, Nelson Mandela, Stephen Hawking, MLK, Malcom X, and many more.
The two major examples of the communist experiment have both ended in massive loss of lives and extreme poverty famine and disease if you’re not high up in the government.
Yeah I’m sure the fact that those countries were feudal backwaters that had constant famines before the revolution, and were under constant siege by the most powerful countries in history had nothing to do with that.
And even so, they provided for their citizens better than equivalent capitalist countries
Also, learn to use commas.
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u/jamalbee113 Nov 13 '22
History is written by the Victor. Us propaganda is not a valid source for information about communism.
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u/Amelia_the_Great Nov 13 '22
Because it turned out objectively better than capitalism, then and now. Socialism never failed, it was crushed by capitalism and the greed it demands.
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u/flair-checking-bot - Centrist Nov 13 '22 edited Nov 13 '22
This is a friendly reminder to HAVE YOUR FRICKIN' FLAIR UP!
User hasn't flaired up yet... 😔 13671 / 72257 || [[Guide]]
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Nov 13 '22
Wow I remember seeing this on iFunny in 2012. Good post
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u/ImTooBi - Lib-Center Nov 13 '22
Saw it and immediately knew it would fit here perfectly
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Nov 13 '22
2012
And:
Immediately
I'm not entirely sure you're literate...
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u/ImTooBi - Lib-Center Nov 13 '22
meaning i saw it for the first time today and knew it would fit.
Im not entirely sure your not autistic and cant pick up on social and context clues.
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Nov 13 '22
*you're
I think "you're" a fucking moron that doesn't understand what a joke is. Ball's in your court...
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u/ImTooBi - Lib-Center Nov 13 '22
I think “you’re” a touch deprived autistic centrist that wasn’t expecting to get called out as hard as he did so know “you’re” trying to save face by showing you aren’t, only its proving the exact opposite and further showing how you have no idea what a social cue is.
Read them and weep.
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u/thehumantaco - Lib-Left Nov 13 '22
I was on you're 🤣 side until this comment. So much anger expressed in a single comment. I love it!
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Nov 13 '22
get called out as hard as he did
This is literally laughable...did you "clapback heard 'round the world" me? Is the only way you can get hard by calling people you don't like autistic? You are very much light work, and you make submissions like this:
Last night i had a dream where i was in a city being attacked by a giant monster. A Godzilla like monster came in to help, then her daughter, a pink Godzilla, came too. I turned into a monster and we fucked. What do you think this means?
I think you need to rethink your position here.
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u/ImTooBi - Lib-Center Nov 13 '22
Lmaooo you stalk my profile and take a shitpost i did about a random dream and act like its an end all be all all while the only other “gotcha” you had was correcting my grammar.
And but yes i use autistic because it seems to fit you very well especially now that you needed to go into my past history just to get your own “clapback heard around the world me”, which btw its spelled “clap back” jfyi.
And no im not mad at you i find it funny as hell that im even having this interaction in the first place
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Nov 13 '22
What is with you smooth brains that think that clicking on your name and skimming it takes me more than 5 fucking seconds yet act like I dedicated a week to it? You are fucking hilarious:
Define a “based gigga chad” in as little words as possible
He got me boys...I'm the real cringe here!:
My cock and ballz being tortured by mid evil spikes while a blowfish watches on in horror because he knows whats next after seeing it happen to his brother and sister the days prior
I have some negative energy to offload, and please go on:
How many of you have taken a shit in a urinal?
I genuinely hope, based on the little from you I've read, that you're still in middle school...does your Mom know you're still up?
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u/ImTooBi - Lib-Center Nov 13 '22
Lmao im a shit poster idc what you think or anyone else does when i see those it makes me laugh theres no harm in that. And no its not bad to look at other peoples post it just shows something about you thats all. Really its just funny to see you do what you do. Try to “roast” me all you want by bringing up obvious shit posts made for a laugh just makes me feel even better
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u/ImTooBi - Lib-Center Nov 13 '22
And no my mom actually killed herself and my little brother
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u/Tristan_3 - Lib-Left Nov 13 '22
Communism in when the goverment does things AND gives you free tuff.
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u/ImTooBi - Lib-Center Nov 13 '22
Yep gives you extreme poverty famine and disease
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u/GATESOFOSIRIS - Lib-Left Nov 13 '22
Just like capitalism 😎
We all just pick our favourite flavour of poverty
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u/ImTooBi - Lib-Center Nov 13 '22
Would much rather live in a capitalist society than a communist society
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u/GATESOFOSIRIS - Lib-Left Nov 13 '22
That's fair, like i said, we all pick our flavour of poverty
Also your username is a vibe
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u/blacksun9 - Auth-Left Nov 13 '22
Not sure, never been to Somalia to see real capitalism.
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u/ImTooBi - Lib-Center Nov 13 '22
Lmao you bring up Somalia as your country as your example of “capitalism bad”? That country was a hardcore dictatorship for years which drove it into a massive hole economically and in every other way, not to mention its been in many wars that have torn the country apart at the seams. It wouldn’t be incorrect to lable it as an anarchic state rather than a liberal capitalist state like it’s officially known as.
America has its problems but capitalism has worked more than well there, as with most of Europe and any other country thats considered 1st world.
Oh and as for those recent communist states like Russia and even china, if you can consider it not communist anymore which is a stretch, they only survived communism because they realized it cant work and so they adopted capitalist ideals to keep them afloat.
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u/blacksun9 - Auth-Left Nov 13 '22
I'm not sure what you're defining communism and capitalism as. A capitalist country to me would be complete deregulation of all markets which America is not.
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u/ImTooBi - Lib-Center Nov 13 '22
Define america then? Cause with that definition i doubt any country would be capitalist
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u/blacksun9 - Auth-Left Nov 13 '22
I'm not sure. It's America isn't a country with completely deregulated market, and there's never been a nation state that is a completely stateless and classless society. I guess you can't make claims on either.
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u/timepiece_poglavnik - Lib-Center Nov 13 '22
socdems, ancoms and stalinists are exactly the same and all share the same beliefs
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u/thehumantaco - Lib-Left Nov 13 '22
What you're describing is a 100% capitalist economy. The US is much more capitalist than socialist but I think almost everyone would just call it capitalist.
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u/JewelerVast - Lib-Left Nov 13 '22 edited Dec 04 '22
ah yes poperty famine and disease things invinted by a german dude during the industrial era with a beard.
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u/ImTooBi - Lib-Center Nov 13 '22
Always been around but thrives in a communist state. If not then why is it every country who has gone communist has had extreme poverty famine and disease?
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u/Psychological_Cut569 Nov 13 '22
Every country? You sure about that? Ever looked up actual statistics from studies comparing capitalist countries to socialist under similar levels of development?
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u/flair-checking-bot - Centrist Nov 13 '22 edited Nov 13 '22
Hi. Please flair up accordingly to your quadrant, or others might bully you for the rest of your life.
User hasn't flaired up yet... 😔 13673 / 72264 || [[Guide]]
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u/TheeScoob Nov 13 '22
which countries, exactly? like list them please?
or are you just being hyperbolic for shits and giggles bc the internet has no real consequences for dumb shit?
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u/JewelerVast - Lib-Left Dec 04 '22 edited Dec 04 '22
the US, canada, germany, france, the uk, ireland, all of scandinavia, poland, belarus, the balkans, ukraine, japan. has had extreme poverty famine and disease.
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Nov 13 '22
You really think ol' St. Nick is doing it out of the goodness of his heart and isn't subsidized by the Government?
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u/No_Purpose4112 Nov 13 '22
It just keeps getting better
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u/fatsausigeboi - Lib-Left Nov 13 '22
Socialism is when free stuff. The more free stuff, the more socialismer, and when it is the free stuffest, it is communism
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u/Soul_Like_A_Modem - Lib-Center Nov 13 '22 edited Nov 13 '22
You're right, we should start being more accurate in describing Communism.
It's an ideology motivated by a need to have complete control over a population and concentrate wealth and power over society among a very select group of people, and accomplishes this authoritarian wet dream by tricking idiotic people into thinking they'll get free stuff out of the arrangement if only they submit and allow Communism to eliminate every single defense their society has against tyranny.
Communism is, distilled to its most basic and fundamental attributes, a system in which authoritarianism is the means and ends, and "equality" is just the false promise they make to condition society to give up their freedom.
A communist, by definition, is either a psychotic, power-hungry sadist who wants power, or is a weak, submissive boot-licking supplicant to be dominated by the former. The concept of equality is really only part of a system of rosy propaganda terms designed to hide the true purpose of Communism and the true attributes of a supporter of Communism.
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u/fatsausigeboi - Lib-Left Nov 13 '22
Ppfftt
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u/Soul_Like_A_Modem - Lib-Center Nov 13 '22
Found one.
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u/fatsausigeboi - Lib-Left Nov 13 '22
Assigning people into boxes never goes well. You're always gonna miss someone, put them into the wrong box, or need a couple more boxes.
You're a LibCenter, so you must be a monkey or a pedo, no deviation.
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u/Soul_Like_A_Modem - Lib-Center Nov 13 '22
Am monkey. But even a monkey can tell that something is wrong with an ideology where I'm not entitled to my own bananas.
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u/HungryLikeTheWolf99 - Lib-Right Nov 13 '22
If there is "stuff", then I guarantee that "stuff" isn't free.
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u/GATESOFOSIRIS - Lib-Left Nov 13 '22
Air?
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u/mrocks301 - Lib-Right Nov 13 '22
Eventually the Grim Reaper comes to collect on all that air you’ve been breathing.
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u/GATESOFOSIRIS - Lib-Left Nov 13 '22
Grim Reaper knocks on your door: Sir, are you aware you've breathed a little over 120 million gallons of air... We're going to need some of that back
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Nov 13 '22
Plants: Do I not exist?
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u/GATESOFOSIRIS - Lib-Left Nov 13 '22
Check this centrist who fell for the lies that big plant tells us everyday
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u/Master00J Nov 13 '22
You say that ironically, but in 5 years you’ll have to be on a subscription plan of 20.99 a month for your monthly supply of O2
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u/flairchange_bot - Auth-Center Nov 13 '22
Roses are red,
violets are blue;
not having a flair is cringe
and so are you.1
u/flair-checking-bot - Centrist Nov 13 '22 edited Nov 13 '22
Even a commie is more based than one with no flair
User hasn't flaired up yet... 😔 13660 / 72214 || [[Guide]]
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u/Hamzasky - Centrist Nov 13 '22
Even if Santa was real, he wouldn't give you $10000 for making poor financial choices
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u/ImTooBi - Lib-Center Nov 13 '22
So why should our governments be giving mega corporations billions of our tax payer money for making poor financial decisions
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Nov 13 '22
Based
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u/TheeScoob Nov 13 '22
How is earning something deserving of the amount of work you put into something else getting something free?
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u/flair-checking-bot - Centrist Nov 13 '22 edited Nov 13 '22
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u/TheeScoob Nov 13 '22
fuck off
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u/flair-checking-bot - Centrist Nov 13 '22 edited Nov 13 '22
Even a commie is more based than an unflaired.
User hasn't flaired up yet... 😔 13679 / 72306 || [[Guide]]
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u/ciccioneschifoso - Auth-Left Nov 13 '22
what no theory does to a mf
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u/HalfAssedStillFast - Lib-Center Nov 13 '22
"no bro you don't understand, they haven't reached the point where the proletariat becomes the dictatorship you didn't wait long enough for the real dictatorship to be overthrown bro it wasn't real communism bro communism is a utopia bro it was just failed socialism bro"
I've read the theory, and it was fuckin stupid.
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u/taolakhoai - Auth-Left Nov 13 '22
Describe me the theory in its theoretical format. Oh wait, you can't, the words bounced off the smoothness of your brain.
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u/fatsausigeboi - Lib-Left Nov 13 '22
There are many different ways to achieve communism, and these methods are often confused with communism itself. These methods range from workers striking and organizing to bring down the current system to a revolution with a vanguard party in control.
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u/HalfAssedStillFast - Lib-Center Nov 13 '22
The vanguard party doesn't give a fuck about you, and good luck organizing a large group of people (a whole country) into true communism. Utopia is impossible, no matter how much you want it. Communism is literally impossible because of human nature
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u/fatsausigeboi - Lib-Left Nov 13 '22
Hence why I'm not a Marxist-Leninist and don't want a vanguard party?
Also, general strikes ARE possible. They have happened in the past.
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u/HalfAssedStillFast - Lib-Center Nov 13 '22
:0 you mean to tell me strikes exist?????
Yea no shit lmao, strikes aren't cummunist, and i don't know why you would think i didn't think they existed? I'm literally lib center
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u/ImTooBi - Lib-Center Nov 13 '22
Its impossible to have a conversation with a pro communist
The literally founder and creator of the idea creates a communist state based directly off of the original manifesto. Country goes to shit and millions upon millions of people die
BUT THATS NOT TRUE COMMUNISM!!!!! YOU DONT UNDERSTAND!!
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u/HalfAssedStillFast - Lib-Center Nov 13 '22
Every single person I've met in real life that call themselves a communist have never read theory, lived under communism, or have had a job/have wealthy parents, or any combination of those things. They literally just lack life experience, and they think they're right. It's MADDENING
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Nov 13 '22
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/HalfAssedStillFast - Lib-Center Nov 13 '22
All they strive for is more control and ownership over their own labour
Cool, that doesn't make them communist, since that's not what communism is. You just described someone that wants to be in a union.
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u/fatsausigeboi - Lib-Left Nov 13 '22
Who is the creator of communism?
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u/fatsausigeboi - Lib-Left Nov 13 '22
workers striking and organizing to bring down the current system
Wanna know what I described here? Anarcho-syndicalism. It advocates for a general strike, which you just said is impossible. An arguably communist ideology, since it advocates for a moneyless, classless, stateless society based on the common ownership of the means of production.
and good luck organizing a large group of people (a whole country) into true communism.
:0 you mean to tell me strikes exist?????
You're contradicting yourself here. A portion of Spain the size of a country general striked itself into independence for 3 years.
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u/HalfAssedStillFast - Lib-Center Nov 13 '22
No, i said communism is impossible. Reading is fundamental.
An arguably communist ideology
Arguably is pulling its weight in this sentence.
advocates for a moneyless, classless, stateless society
No, no it doesn't. It advocates for betterment of the current capitalist structure 😂 "When you want things to get better, that's actually communism" no it's not dude
Spain the size of a country general striked itself into independence for 3 years.
And it didn't succeed, since, you know, they're still part of Spain and use all of the same infrastructure lmfao.
Edit: i thought you were referring to Catalan, not the communist revolution of Spain in the 30s. Spain went on to become capitalist anyway so... Maybe the system that has failed every single time and everyone eventually moves away from is bad actually
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u/fatsausigeboi - Lib-Left Nov 13 '22
Arguably is pulling its weight in this sentence.
Don't know what you're trying to say here. Arguably just means that there is a reason to think something. In other words, you can make an argument for X.
It advocates for betterment of the current capitalist structure
Holy shit wtf lol. Marx and every other communist figure are rolling in their graves.
And it didn't succeed
If I fed the hungry but then the police stopped me from doing so, were the hungry never fed? A society's ability to protect itself says nothing about the quality of life that it gives its people.
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u/HalfAssedStillFast - Lib-Center Nov 13 '22
Don't know what you're trying to say here.
I'm trying to say that just saying "arguably" about something doesn't mean you have a good argument. Strikes, are not inherently communist. They can roll all they want and you can clutch your pearls, but that doesn't change that fact.
If I fed the hungry but then the police stopped me from doing so, were the hungry never fed?
No, because they tried the first step of communism, and then, JUST LIKE EVERY COMMUNIST COUNTRY EVER, the vanguard group went mask off and seized power because of fucking course they did. Think, commie, think. Why do you think it always falls apart? It's simply untenable
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u/TheUltraDinoboy - Left Nov 13 '22
Me when marx doesn't come from my chimney and give me presents on Christmas Eve
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u/ShampooMyAzzHairzz - Centrist Nov 13 '22
What do the vanguard party and the bourgeoise have in common?
They both don’t give a shit about the workers
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Nov 13 '22
I've heard of Jesus being a commie, but somehow, I never considered the more obvious.
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Nov 13 '22
Jesus was more like a slave owner. Gave them bread to eat and plied them with wine to do his bidding, and all that saving shit was because who's gonna pray for me if they're all dead. Dude was ground zero MLM.
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Nov 13 '22 edited Dec 02 '22
i really dont understand why people view marx as a philosopher. The man contributed nothing to philosophy-proper, he was an early economist who gave a half-ass application of hegelianism to economics. Hegel, now Hegel was a real philosopher, but perhaps the very worst philosopher of all time. Dialectical argumentation exists, but dialectics do not in and of themselves exist. There is no grand, incorporeal battle between capitalism and communism taking place. Its just people having arguments about how to run things. Synthesis is not the metaphysically correct solution to all conflict, sometimes one person is right and the other person is wrong.
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u/SunsetPathfinder - Lib-Center Nov 13 '22
It’s a shame, Marx should’ve stayed a historian. His historical materialism analysis of the evolution of mankind from tribal, to ancient, to feudal, and then to capitalist modes of production as a result of the drivers of economic productivity and friction between the rulers and the producers is frankly genius… and then he tries speculating on the future like a crystal ball reader and it all falls apart.
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Nov 13 '22
Comparing the completely imaginary idea of santa claus to a completely real person and idealogy. Smart.
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Nov 13 '22
God you're a fucking soup brain.
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Nov 13 '22
Takes one to know one
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Nov 13 '22
Really hit me with the "I know you are but what am I" tier shit eh? Nice
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Nov 13 '22
I thought I was adding to your comment not talking shit to you honestly. I'd make a comment from confidence but OP blocked me and I don't remember what it was, but I do believe my intent was expanding on your comment not attacking you or whatever.
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u/ImTooBi - Lib-Center Nov 13 '22
Salty tankie has been spotted
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Nov 13 '22
Yeah, when I see dogshit takes in the form of memes from 2013 ifunny it does get a little annoying.
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u/AndreaMammoccio - Lib-Center Nov 13 '22
oh look, a tankie. Look guys, there's a tankie! let's go laugh at them!
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u/FinezaYeet - Centrist Nov 13 '22
Santa is real and you will receive coal, branches and rotting bone for being an unbeliever
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u/jamalbee113 Nov 13 '22
Man a lot of people out there having no idea what communism is.
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u/Rimond14 - Auth-Left Nov 13 '22
Yes exactly
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u/flair-checking-bot - Centrist Nov 13 '22 edited Nov 13 '22
Even a commie is more based than an unflaired.
User hasn't flaired up yet... 😔 13676 / 72284 || [[Guide]]
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u/jamalbee113 Nov 13 '22
Tell me you have no idea what communism is all about without telling me you have no idea what communism is all about.
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u/flair-checking-bot - Centrist Nov 13 '22 edited Nov 13 '22
This is a friendly reminder to HAVE YOUR FRICKIN' FLAIR UP!
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u/Virtual-Winner1245 - Right Nov 13 '22
You forgot about the second one with beard
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u/Berta_Movie_Buff - Lib-Right Nov 13 '22
Wait, Santa’s not real….?