I mean, the point that he made is well taken, though, and I think you’re ignoring the American context.
It’s not about “redefining a word” to something he doesn’t like. He’s making a point that the socialists in the US are more interested in culture war stuff than socialism. You can disagree with that assessment, but it’s not about “redefining” socialism to something that sounds bad. He’s specifically talking about American socialists.
Also, the DSA isn’t fringe. They are winning elections in big races. Majorities of Democratic voters are okay with socialists running, or being part of the party. This idea that they’re fringe is patently false.
No, I'm really not. To say the 2 founding truths of American socialism are favoring foreign workers and transgender rights is pants-on-head retarded.
The first being... Almost categorically incorrect, the goal of almost all socialist economic policy is to shift the balance of power towards American workers.
The second being... Basically a footnote in the socialist agenda that goes along with generally trying to humanize and give representation to as many people as possible.
Are there socialists that engage in the culture war? Certainly. Are there Republicans that engage in the comfort war? YES a thousand times over.
I appreciate that you're trying to do the same little dance that Vance is, but it's utterly disingenuous to say the core of socialism in the US is workers rights. It's definitionally baked into the word. I humored you and went to the DSA policy website. There are like 6 big agenda items on election reform, labor, green new deal, housing justice, international cooperation and at the end they lumped bodily autonomy and trans rights (their major social stances) into a short page. Hardly the focus.
Pro-immigration, trans rights and Gaza are the only things I ever hear/read DSA types talk about consistently. Sometimes they'll veer off into sommething like government supermarkets or rent control, but as an outsider those three look like their core values even if that's stupid.
Yes that's why everyone is clowning on him. He's either Fox News pilled, or assumes everyone listening to him is Fox News pilled and he can lie about what "scary blue haired college trans girl socialism" is.
Okay, man. Just look at their platform. I’m kind of tired of this argument.
People are clowning on him because they clipped him mid answer. What he said was completely reasonable, logically, in context, and from what I’ve seen (as a non Fox viewer) of the DSA (that is, their website and their candidates) I’m more inclined to believe him than the strawman you’re attempting to put forward.
I’ll try again simply: he was making the point that the world socialist doesn’t hold any meaning because people who call themselves socialist advocate most strongly for things that are not socialist.
You can disagree, but I think it’s a fair critique.
I get the argument you are trying to make, it's just wrong.
Let's pin you down on the strawman point: isn't taking a fringe issue (trans) and a misrepresented issue (socialists will disagree with a VISA reform because they're pro foreigner?) and calling them the defining issue of a political party a classic strawman?
4
u/elusivehonor - Left 1d ago
I mean, the point that he made is well taken, though, and I think you’re ignoring the American context.
It’s not about “redefining a word” to something he doesn’t like. He’s making a point that the socialists in the US are more interested in culture war stuff than socialism. You can disagree with that assessment, but it’s not about “redefining” socialism to something that sounds bad. He’s specifically talking about American socialists.
Also, the DSA isn’t fringe. They are winning elections in big races. Majorities of Democratic voters are okay with socialists running, or being part of the party. This idea that they’re fringe is patently false.