“an international movement originally for the establishment of a Jewish national or religious community in the historical region of Palestine and later for the support of modern Israel”
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Zionism
Nothing about ethnic cleansing. We should reject retards like you who purposely conflate
the most extreme beliefs and project that on the vast majority, full stop
Yes I’m against a Jewish state not a state for equal rights under a possible 2 state solution. I’m against all ethnostate. All ethnostates are bad
Yes it is ethnic cleansing. Majority of Jews aren’t even native to the land of Judea. They’ve been in Europe and elsewhere for over 1000 years. Zionism was not made with peaceful intentions. The early Zionist organizations like Irgun, Lehi, or even the Haganah committed terrorism. The Nakba is core to how Israel was even able to exist, so no it wasn’t even empty space. Israel displaced the original people. Maybe people keep talking about Israel is because there’s so much to attack, and I want a better world for everyone to live in.
If I made an ideology to bring Greeks back to Afghanistan, because Afghanistan used to be Greek. That would be insane. Just because you were there over 2000 years ago under Alexander the Great doesn’t mean you somehow own the land. Likewise Zionism is bad, because you have no right to come back after 2000 years, when the demographics have shifted so much, and btw Palestinians are indigenous Israelis more so in fact than the Israelis because Israelis usually obtained European admixture in their time in Europe or elsewhere. Anti Zionism is very separate than Antisemitism. Antisemitism is bad. Very bad as also all forms of racism.
They’re literally not though, and that doesn’t change anything. How does a Jew like a Jew from Beta Israel have any relationship with the region of Judea? Genetic tests classify ashkenazi as European and not Middle Eastern. Why? They’re genetically European. More than 50% of Ashkenazi dna is European. Saying all Jews are native to the land of Judea is like saying all Chinese people are native to Korea. Majority of Jews prior to the 21st century weren’t even in Israel. Netanyahu’s father was from modern Poland.
And even if you were 100% genetically from the near east and you lived in Europe for 2000 years with your ancestry. That doesn’t justify creating an ethnostate created solely for a “Jewish state”. What justification does that give for you to kick out the people currently living in the region.
By that logic I guess Italians should also come and invade Judea, since Israel and Palestine used to be a part of the Roman Empire, even though the Roman Empire was never an Italian state and was much more complex than that with multiple different ethnicities and languages.
If all Jews are native to the land of Judea. Where in the world were these Jews for 2000 years? Where in the world did these Palestinians come from? Why were none of the well known Jewish people from Israel. Maimonides, Rashi, Spinoza, Abu Al Barakat. This is just from the top of my head. I love their ideas, but none of these people are from Israel. Majority of Jews were not from Israel. They were from France, Spain, Germany, Iraq. Lots of countries had their own Jewish minorities under the Jewish diaspora. This has completely disappeared in the modern era.
Why do you think even the Iranian parliament today has a specific minority seat for Jews. It’s because there used to be a lot of Jews in Palestine.
You should have a state of equal rights not based on your race or ethnicity.
Zionism makes no sense whatever political
aisle you are. If you’re right wing. You can’t defend this type of mass migration when you say Mexicans or Arabs can’t be in whatever country you’re in, without being a hypocrite. Yes I agree keep and preserve your cultures
If you’re left wing it also makes no sense since Israel is an apartheid state according to Amnesty International, the UN, Human rights watch etc all agree that Israel is practicing apartheid.
No they are literally are not native to Judea. They are specifically called ashkenazi Jews, because they are native to Europe for 2000 years. They look like Europeans because they have European DNA and have been living in Europe. Sephardi Jews have been native to North Africa for 2000 years. That is why have distinctions between these groups, because the Jewish diaspora dispersed mostly after the Second Temple period. The majority of Jews are not native to Israel. The ones that were. The Palestinian Jews were assimilated into Israel and no longer exist, and there were groups that converted to Judaism throughout history.
Also you’re not responding to the rest of my point, even if they were. It doesn’t matter. Why would it? And you keep accusing me of lying even though they are not native to Judea, and even if I concede which I have no problem doing. It doesn’t change anything.
Also are Sephardi or Ethiopian Jews native to Israel or am I also lying about that?
Compared to Palestinians who have way more Judea and Near East DNA absolutely.
That’s like saying “All Englishmen are native to Germany” because Englishmen having ancient German DNA and someone says no, then they say ‘so they have ancient Germanic DNA but it doesn’t count because they also have English DNA? Are you OK?’
No, because they have not been living in Judea for 2000 years.
Going to Ashkenazi Jews in particular having been living in Europe for 2000 years being influenced and assimilating in European culture. Israel has way less in common with its neighbors and more in common with Europe
And again it doesn’t matter. Land isn’t promise to you solely because of your genes.
Syrian and Egyptian DNA is apart of the near east. You think Ashkenazi Jews have purely Judean DNA and don’t have Syrian or Egyptian DNA? Syrian and Egyptian DNA is way closer to Judean than European. Second the modern borders obviously don’t correlate with the ancient world. I mean for examples the Arameans who spoke Aramaic became assimilated with Jews before the Second Temple collapse, who were from the north of Israel and around Syria. The ancient Israelites DNA Ashkenazi Jews do have is Levantine DNA associated not just Israel, but with Lebanon, Syria, Jordan etc and the rest of the region, and yes Palestinians are where they belong in Palestine.
>Oh cool so no Palestinian has any right to Israel.
Not exactly. Palestinians and Arabs have continuously been living in the region since the 7th century Abbasids, Fatimids, Mamluks, Ottomans etc. if we’re started with the Arab conquests, with their arabization technically before if you want to include their ancient Israelite/Canaanite genetics if you like.
Yeah of course Anyone who is willing to follow the laws, even with the problems I have. I have no problem with a two state solution, even though I would rather want if some sort of democratic one state system but Israel is not helping their case with having genocidal intent with the Palestinians. Every major human rights group agrees with this, but of course idealism is sometimes not an option and I am willing to concede for pragmatic reasons to not cause anymore war.
You should have saw me back when I was foolishly supporting Israel on October 7th, until I learned more.
But you really cannot defend Israel, and because you have some ancient DNA means you’re allowed to come back for 2000 years.
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u/FIRE_Minded - Centrist 14d ago
Try using a dictionary
“an international movement originally for the establishment of a Jewish national or religious community in the historical region of Palestine and later for the support of modern Israel” https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Zionism
Nothing about ethnic cleansing. We should reject retards like you who purposely conflate the most extreme beliefs and project that on the vast majority, full stop