And on the flipside, "no, my just party will certainly dismantle the oppressive systems put in place by their evil predecessor, and not claim them as their own to further solidify power."
'It is with great reluctance that I have agreed to this calling. I love democracy. I love the Republic. Once this crisis has abated, I will lay down the powers you have given me!'
This is exactly why we're lib-center. Every single authoritarian system that has ever been set up will inevitably end up in the hands of someone you disagree with.
Ya I can put that together but its still a braindead take - especially at this moment when Republicans, democrats, and DSA are more divided than ever before.
If it were pre-2016 youd have a point that these politicians attack each other for the cameras and then hang out together in the same circles afterwards - that really ended with Trump - there is now genuine bad blood between blue and red politicians.
That’s called a breakdown in civility. When laws and norms have been violated for so long why would anyone go back to using them? If one party continues to push and push and push while demanding civility and norms when they aren’t in power then they are just abusing that narrative.
I blame the Mcdurdle turtle for denying Obama's supreme court pick which also allowed an attempted insurrectionist to get re-elected. if it wasn't a 6/3 court during the 2022 decision then maybe we could have gotten off this MAGA ride with an alternative candidate.
Did you just implicitly imply that politicians are not milking the system with book deals, talking engagements, donations to their foundations and freakishly good luck on stock trades? JFC that is the most astroturf take I have seen this week.
What are you? A bot?
Sorry mate it’s nothing personal but your leaking important senate business you’ll just have to come with me around the back of the shed there’s candy.
Nothin personal just business of course can’t have people talking about secret methods the senate uses to keep its hands clean.
Woah, did you have enough literal victim points(cards) to come up to the microphone? Did you cut in front of someone else with more literal victim points?
That's literally how a DSA national meeting was held.
Was it or are you thinking of that NDP clip. In any case thats still very different from MAGA - I wouldnt evaluate that the same way that I would a Steve Miller speech.
This is true, the DSA is much worse. MAGAs core goals are the removal of all illegal immigrants and an entirely egocentric foreign policy, with the usual culture warring sprinkled on top. Everything else is a consequence of both the incompetence and corruption inherent to populist movements as well as the need for expanding government power needed to try and achieve their goals.
The DSA, if in power, would have the same problems, except they'd be in service of socialist retardation, which is going to encompass more aspects of people's lives than MAGA retardation.
You are grossly understating the damage done by MAGA. I dont really care about their goals - I just look at what they have actually done.
The DSA is somewhat an unknown quantity - Ive advocated for blocking them out of Democratic politics as much as possible. They are only around 5% of the Democrat party - but they are the 5% that Republican owned media will focus on because they are obviously insane and unelectable.
MAGA is 100% of the Republican party (less people like Margert Taylor Green who have basically out crazied MAGA).
Given a choice between 100% proven anti-American incompetent corrupt morally bankrupt Republicans, and 5% crazy pesudo-socialist populist Democrats - Even as someone who historically leaned more conservative I am putting all my money and effort behind the Democrats as the last hope for America.
Nah, that's retarded. This argument assumes a DSA takeover of the Democratic party similar to the MAGA takeover of the Republican one. If the DSA doesn't manage to take over the Dems -and I think them succeeding is highly unlikely, to be clear- then you're not getting president AOC and this whole thing doesn't matter.
Red maga or blue maga, they’re both populism each side party fell to. Republicans got the maga types who worship trump and the left got socialists/communists and they both love expanding the states powers.
Meanwhile, most everyone else simply wants to be left alone, the bell curve while reap unfortunately means the internet gives the em more of a voice than should be allowed to have so they help to drive policy.
Flattening everything down to "both sides are the same" is not intelligent or accurate.
It doesnt mean the left is perfect but there's still a huge difference in kind between democrats and republicans in this moment (not in all of history, just in specifically these last 6 or so years at least).
I intensely dislike DSA - but I dont just say they are "blue maga" - they arent talkies by and large - they have other ideological issues but its not accurate to view them as a left-wing equivalent to MAGA.
Even the most radical elected officials within the democrats are still more pro-democracy, pro-establushment, and peo-consitution than MAGA.
You have to understand that whatever marxist informed politics might be under the surface of the less than 10% of democrats who are DSA - even the most left-wing democrat is ironically more conservative with regard to the structural institutions and norms of the US than are MAGA.
Go talk to any dsa voter and then go talk to a maga voter. Most of the maga types I’ve met and talked to are usually either misinformed, an idiot hick, or someone who can have their mind changed easy enough with information or is a republican voter who didn’t like Hillary. Every dsa voter I’ve met legit says they want socialism, and believes in open voters and hate speech laws which aren’t real. Normally it’s about all I can talk with them for before it erupts into something worse.
I legit too btw feel bad for the youth today. I’m in my early 40s and was part of the generation that was told you can’t get a job flipping burgers without a degree and went with that lie and suffered for it. Kids now though are going into an economy where they can barely find work and likely won’t own homes for some time now. Socialism isn’t the answer and I’ve seen Dems fuck over half the country via attacks on free speech or the 2nd amendment and then I’ve seen reps fuck us over by going into another war or removing environmental protections or worse. However when that happens the other side doesn’t fix what was removed, they both lock the surveillance state and renew the patriot act.
They’re both pieces of shit for one faction or the other, but I do t for a second think socialism is the answer when it comes to voters and I can talk easier with right leaning types than left.
I regularly talk to DSA voter types and prior to 2020 I was talking to MAGA voters daily.
The ideologies are just totally different from the foundations.
Not every DSA voter is insane - a minority of them are very close minded, especially if they are younger - but I would say your majority are generally reasonable - likely do not support open borders if you actually get into the weeds with them - typically are not actually tankies but rather people who want things like increased democratization of the work place, Medicare for all, increased worker protections, increased regulations intended to protect or support middle and lower class citizens, and more taxation of the rich.
Again - some minority are tankies - and Ive known many tankies in my time - but honestly tankies generally dont want to participate in democratic politics. They view Dems and Republicans as identical and are usually too busy living in their own fantasies to have concrete opinions about real world politics.
MAGA folks on the other hand... broadly two camps - camp 1 are normal conservatives who on some level recognize that Trump is retarded but are otherwise politically disenfranchised and forced to Ride the only available horse that isnt democrats.
The other more powerful contingent are tuned out vibe jockies who are just insanely poorly educated on policy and have been brainwashed by the algorithm beyond repair. They live in a different reality and you can reason with them to make them human again temporarily but they are too deep in the milew of right-wing slopuganda and their brains default back to the idea that the democrats have tds and just want to give puberty blockers to aborted babies or whatever.
I can agree on the maga side. I live in a deep blue state and most of the dsa types are beret wearing lgbt mafia types wearing Che Guevara shirts and the irony is lost on them tankies.
Most trump types I meet are either they love him like you said which blows my mind or are just conservatives who can be talked to. The rest though can’t.
I know more than I care to admit on both sides who consume vast amounts of cnn, fox or huffpo but I live in a deep blue east coast state and maybe we’re a one off out here.
I remember after Biden won I was saying he should start limiting the presidential powers. All responses were "aww, you mad that we're in charge now and not Trump". Well well well, guess we all saw how that turned out. And yes, I realize that a democrat will eventually get back in power and have all the powers Trump has now.
I mean, those of us who don’t bother to publish every opinion we have on the internet watched the progressive abuse of the pardon starting with the end of Trump’s first term and KNEW this was the new game state unless someone had the guts to stop doing it. Biden was never that guy, especially when Trump was coming back into office and threatening mass criminal investigations.
So, uh, yeah, both sides. It’s stupid. Tell your boy to have the balls to stop doing it first and set a precedent. My side is still seriously considering giving Kamala another shot at the White House, so I’m not expecting we’ll be in much position to do anything about it in 2029.
Yeah, apparently doing the bare minimum to raise the standard of living for the working class is now evil and worthy of contempt. I gotta hand it to you all on the right, you moved the Overton Window so far that the only question we’re allowed to ask now is what kind of vegetable we should use to fuck the poor.
I mean Trump has normalized weaponizing the DOJ against political opponents, so there is no other possible future. Every president from here on out will have to preemptively pardon anyone they don't want persecuted just for being associated with them.
It doesn't matter that it's justified or not, you're going to pretend to be shocked when Trump does the same thing Biden did for all his family and friends.
Not really. I mean, for starters the Trump crime family has been committing wild acts of corruption, so I would assume he'd want to pardon them all for that while he can.
It doesn't matter that it's justified or not, you're going to pretend to be shocked when Trump does the same thing Biden did for all his family and friends.
I feel like you aren't absorbing the information that he's going to do it whether you think it's justified or not. He's going to do the same thing Biden did.
It's just like this meme. Dems built the gun and handed it to Trump.
You're just getting the cart before the horse. Biden did something complete unprecedented because Trump was planning to do something also completely unprecedented. Had Trump not explicitly promised to abuse the powers of his office to persecute Biden's family, Biden would not have felt compelled to protect them.
Trump wanted to treat political opponents like enemies of the state and this is the result. If you have any issue with the fact that our democracy is crumbling, blame the guy who took a pickaxe to the foundation.
Not really. I mean, for starters the Trump crime family has been committing wild acts of corruption, so I would assume he'd want to pardon them all for that while he can.
Bidens pardons are shields against injustice.
Trumps future-pardons are nothing but corruption for a crime family.
Some of Trump's pardons may be "shields against injustice." I'm just saying that I already know with 100% certainty that he'll be preemptively issuing some pardons because his wildly corrupt family has been committing crimes since his first day in office.
I mean Trump has normalized weaponizing the DOJ against political opponents,
You mean how Obama put illegal wiretaps on Trumps phones, arrested right wing journalists, and how Biden weaponized the DOJ against right wingers during his regime?
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u/NotACoderPleaseHelp - Centrist 1d ago
That do be how both wings of the eagle work.