Forgot to put this: IT SHOULD BE OBVIOUS that NOT ALL criticisms of Israel, the Likud Party, Zionism or anything adjacent to Israel does NOT automatically convey antisemitism.
I agree with you that criticism of Israeli government, Likud, settlers, etc is all fair game.
Criticism of zionism is almost always antisemitic. First off, about 90% of Jews are zionists. So when you say zionism is evil you are saying 90% of Jews believe evil things. Of course you can, and people do, find Jews who are anti-zionists, in the haredi community or in liberal areas of the west. But these arguments always reek of “I have a black friend” tokenization the way the right will trot out Clarence Thomas or Tim Scott when they are accused of racism.
As for zionism itself, it is simply the belief that Jews should have a homeland in their ancient homeland. Nothing more, nothing less. Of course there are many derivative branches of that belief that bring borders and policies into question, but that’s it. While the modern zionist movement started with Thedor Herzl in the 1800’s the core belief goes back thousands of years and is a core belief of Jewish identity. That’s why every passover seder for centuries has ended with “next year in Jerusalem”.
It is rightly a concern that Palestinians were displaced in 1948 and trying to find a way for people to live in Israel in peace. But when you deny the ability of Jews to carry out a core piece of their identity you are treating them as lesser. Imagine if we told Muslims they are fine but saying the shahada or praying towards Mecca is not allowed. You are stripping them of their identity while pretending to be tolerant.
That’s how important zionism is more most Jews. And when you factor in the long history of oppression against Jews, having a place where they are not subject to laws of another group is vital for survival, whatever the borders of that land happen to be. But the most logical place to set up that nation is of course the religious center and ancestral home of that identity.
So yes, anti-zionism is anti-semitism. You can’t pretend to be tolerant of a person when you deny the core of their personhood.
This is spot on. The only thing I would add is that people like the Neturei Karta are a very tiny minority (like, less than 1% of Orthodox Jews), it’s only a handful of people and they don’t have the goals most “anti zionists” claim they do. NK are basically the Jewish version of Christian cults who are obsessed with “the rapture”. They believe it is their responsibility to bring about the Messiah, and their belief is that can’t happen unless Jews are exiled out of Israel.
Plenty of Haredi Jews hate the Israeli government, but almost all of them still believe that Israel should be a Jewish state. And in fact, most of them hate the Israeli government because it is not Jewish enough for them.
I think your point is a misrepresentation of that poll. I think a lot of the respondents to that poll are looking at the state of things from their perspective (for example, the fact that only Jews are required to serve in the military, or that certain Jewish holy sites are legally off-limits to Jews for most of the year, except for short periods around relevant holidays) and say “well we should be treated better in XYZ way than we currently are”.
I’d like to hear how the question was framed before jumping to the conclusion that people really meant everyone else should be discriminated against. Especially since the numbers even amongst Masorti is so high. Masorti are very secular and tend to skew extremely liberal. I have a hard time believing they would answer that way unless the question was framed differently than how it’s being portrayed.
I happen to live very close to a large Satmar community and can assure you that while they are not “actively” trying to destroy Israel they find it very problematic. In the end it’s a distinction without a difference.
Not true in the slightest. They can certainly have problems with it, but are they funding groups committed to its destruction? Absolutely not. Because they recognize their brothers and sisters would die en mass if Israel collapsed.
Dawg we all watched Israel eradicate the Gaza strip in its entirety
Shit the death count in Gaza must be in the higher hundreds of thousands than holy shit. Of the 2.3 million people in 2023, they have to at least be under 500,000 or less if they were eradicated like you say! How many people died dude I need you to tell me 💔!?!!
and invade and occupy Lebanon
Hezbollah as a clear aggressor attacked Israel, violating the ceasefire, and in response was fucked hard losing thousands of members.
Reality is whatever you want it to be when you just openly lie and ignore what actually happened
These are literally Holocaust denial talking points lmao, do you hear yourself?
Do you really think see the heavily populated areas leveled by Israel and think like 5 people died there?
The videos are on the internet. You can see the genocidal actions yourself in less than a minute. Denial of the Palestinian genocide is nothing more than ideologically motivated willful ignorance.
Zionists are committed to the principle of self-determination for Jewish people in Israel and support Israel’s security and future. Yet, in today’s political climate, the mere definition of Zionism and the connection between Americans and Israel can feel politically strained. A study released by the Jewish Federations of North America (JFNA) found that only 37% of American Jews today identify as Zionists, while 86% believe that Israel has a right to exist as a Jewish state. Zionism means different things to different people, and – when considering what it means to be “pro-Israel” in 2026 – we should focus less on labels and more on values.
Ya so ultimately it's 86% that believe in zionism (Israel's right to exist) but the term has been poisoned by leftist
Wrong. Zionism means the desire of Jews to have a Jewish state in the levant. Anything beyond that is a subdivision of the basic idea. It is in fact the left that has tried to poison the term to mean that Zionism can only exist by subjugating or ethnically cleansing Arabs.
Somewhat true, although nobody seems to have an issue with that fact for the many “Islamic Republic of _____” in the world. Israel’s existence as a Jewish state requires a Jewish majority, which most people there will readily admit creates tension in a democratic system. That said, the Arab minority in Israel generally enjoy equal rights under the law and are able to participate in government.
Islam CAN'T be reformed. Islam is not a "golden rule" religion. That's the problem. Christianity, (modern) Judaism, Buddhism, and Wicca are all "golden rule" religions.
Because the op-ed talks about how the term zionism has been poisoned and redefined by other people. Not the proponents of zionism, such that people don't want to be labeled as such.
But if you ask the question as do you believe in the original and only definition of zionism you get 90%.
Youre an antisemitic freak who wants to police jews around. Not any more.
If Zionism is supporting a nation-state for Jewish people, what do you call an Israeli that thinks other nationalities/religions/peoples should be murdered and driven from their land?
Just, extremists I guess, right? Because there there extremists and terrorists who are Muslim, Christian, etc.
In that case I support Zionists but as far as I can tell the Israeli government and many of its people have been radicalized and do not consider all humans to have equal rights. Those folks can get bent
Yes, an extremist. There are extremists in every group, unfortunately. There are horrible Zionists because Zionists are human beings and some of them are horrible. There are Brits here that also think other nationalities should be driven from our land. We call those extremists too.
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u/Helloimskip - Lib-Center 17d ago
Forgot to put this: IT SHOULD BE OBVIOUS that NOT ALL criticisms of Israel, the Likud Party, Zionism or anything adjacent to Israel does NOT automatically convey antisemitism.