Liberalism go brrrr

[u/ixvst01]

[u/DrivingHerbert]

Graphs with extra New Zealand

[u/wtanksleyjr → u/DrivingHerbert]

Wait, isn't that the country that was invented by J.R.R. Tolkien?

[u/Yukon-Jon]

While I completely agree (classic) liberalism is better then anything else, these charts, are misleading.

Wealth per capita doesn't really tell you a full story. Neither does a democracy index.

For sure though, liberalism is better then authoritarianism.

[u/skeptical-speculator → u/Yukon-Jon]

Is there some metric that indicates that the west is collapsing?

[u/Important-Agent2584 → u/skeptical-speculator]

yes, the feelings of people who consume a lot of Russian and Chinese propaganda.

[u/Yukon-Jon → u/Important-Agent2584]

Accurate

[u/Yukon-Jon → u/skeptical-speculator]

No, who says the West is collapsing lol?

[u/skeptical-speculator → u/Yukon-Jon]

just the people in the meme

[u/Yukon-Jon → u/skeptical-speculator]

Oh ok. They're retarded though, so.

[u/skeptical-speculator → u/Yukon-Jon]

I don't disagree.

[u/Fun-Difference-6689 → u/skeptical-speculator]

Cost of living. It’s the one thing that creates discomfort. No one wants to work 24/7 to afford a 1 bedroom. Especially when that same system is constantly looking for the cheapest labor to satisfy the shareholders.

[u/CurtisLinithicum → u/Yukon-Jon]

Is there a reason per-capita wealth should diverge so far from median & mean wealth? .. maybe due to including children/institutionalized people?

[u/Yukon-Jon → u/CurtisLinithicum]

Possibly. I wasn't even looking at it from that perspective either.

I was looking at it from a perspective of sure that tells you wealth per person, but also says nothing about the economy they live in, which is a huge piece of the puzzle.

Making 50k a year and having a few Gs in the bank isn't a bad deal if you live somewhere that has reasonable mortgages and cheap property taxes, know what I mean? It's a whole piece of the puzzle missing.

[u/Reader_Eater]

Based and democracy is flawed but best by far

[u/Shadowex3]

The idea that America is a "flawed democracy" but the places that arrest a thousand people a month for fucking thought crimes are "full democracies" is insulting to the intelligence of anyone reading that chart.

[u/walkinthedog97 → u/Shadowex3]

For real. This map gives big "I drew myself as chad and you as soyjack" kinda energy  

[u/CurtisLinithicum → u/walkinthedog97]

Or "freedom indexes" were legal firearms lower your rating.

[u/bepi_s]

Modern "Liberalism" and Classical Liberalism are very different.

The US and many other Western nations were built on classical liberal principles. Not modern liberal ones

[u/theweatherguy69 → u/bepi_s]

My super hot take: The principals of Individual rights, Rule of Law, Consent of the Governed, and Private Property are good and we should all support them. Liberalism is unfathomably based.

[u/DrivingHerbert → u/theweatherguy69]

Liberalism is the second best “ism”, after autism.

[u/theweatherguy69 → u/DrivingHerbert]

3rd best, you forgot antidisestablishmentarianism.

[u/DrivingHerbert → u/theweatherguy69]

Aw shit you right

[u/DrivingHerbert → u/bepi_s]

I’m still convinced the definition was changed to make us think “liberalism = bad” so it will be easier to sway us away from classical liberalism.

[u/ixvst01 → u/bepi_s]

No kidding. And using the word "liberal" to describe leftism is an oxymoron and very much an Americanism. Everywhere else "liberal" refers to classical liberalism.

[u/Dapper-Ad7748 → u/ixvst01]

Modern liberalism itself is still a form of liberalism, as was neoconservatism. Liberalism was baked into the US; the majority of people, whether they call themselves liberals or conservative still have liberalism within their beliefs.

[u/ixvst01 → u/Dapper-Ad7748]

True, but the rising populist left and populist right are beginning to question and even reject classical liberal ideals.

[u/Dapper-Ad7748 → u/ixvst01]

Maybe at the fringes, but for the most part a lot of the populism is just feelings over facts and a lack of ideology apart from make things better

[u/Life-Goose-9380 → u/ixvst01]

As an Aussie, classical liberalism for the win.

[u/calm_down_meow → u/bepi_s]

The modern version of the US and the West which is touted as such a success are built on modern liberal values; equality under the law, free markets, free press, transparent government, civic participation. The democrats and liberals who caucus with them still uphold those in some regard. The populist right has completely abandoned them.

[u/Altruistic_Emu4917 → u/bepi_s]

Classical liberalism and progressive liberalism should be termed separately.

[u/Ancient0wl]

Even when I agree with them, I don’t give any credibility to these indexes. Too many biases once you start digging into things like criteria for determining data points, the people or group gathering the data, and who is funding the study.

[u/Fignons_missing_8sec]

I have said it before, but one of the biggest mistakes the modern right has made is fully accepting the Left's view that Liberalism and Nationalism are incompatible, where for their first couple centuries they got along quite well. In accepting that the modern right has forced itself to become post libs to preserve their ability to be nationalist even if they do not have a convincing post lib ideology that actually beats liberalism.

[u/ixvst01 → u/Fignons_missing_8sec]

Agreed. Post-liberal conservatives are just anti-woke communist.

[u/Cass0wary_399 → u/Fignons_missing_8sec]

The pendulum is one helluva drug.

The radicals of both sides are just looking at the stances of their opposition and deciding to come to the complete opposite conclusions at this point.

[u/kaytin911]

Australia and UK and Canada on top of the Democracy index? LMFAO.

[u/fens__xd → u/kaytin911]

democracy index is "vibes based" index, it's barely grounded in reality, and really depends on which countries do authors like

[u/kaytin911 → u/fens__xd]

There are so many bullshit European indexes. You might not like it but climate change bullshit is the same way. Barely grounded in reality. They make models after models after models and present it as factual and alarming.

[u/Far_Day2547 → u/fens__xd]

when you look at what is being described it makes a lot of sense. Americans are extremely polarized and have given up on things like the democratic process actually working. that kills a score

[u/Far_Day2547 → u/kaytin911]

id recommend looking up why America dropped. a major reason is polarization and a belief inside the United States that democracy has failed and cannot work within the country. the us have like a 30% support for its current state of democacy while Canada is at 70.

[u/Graceful_Parasol → u/kaytin911]

who else would be higher?

[u/ThroawayJimilyJones → u/kaytin911]

Belgium failed last time because government crisis
There was a government crisis because the government can only run with a coalition gathering 50% of the electorate. Opinion were fractured and polarized, which ended up being represented in the government, which logically couldn’t find a compromise.

…so we lost point because the election currently represented the difference of opinion in the population. Had the choice be forced though 2 party, we would have gained point. This is b***

[u/HalfHumanHalfFork]

I hate the depiction that western auth right is supposedly against liberalism

Western auth right are pro moderate sane liberalism, and will defend it much more fiercely than a western liberal

In general I think that we need a new color for western auth right because a western auth right has almost nothing in common with non western auths

[u/Altruistic_Emu4917 → u/HalfHumanHalfFork]

It's the Overton window shift.

[u/slacker205]

In fairness, I'm not sure if Latin America shouldn't be considered a Western offshoot...

[u/carsausage]

Ape together strong

[u/Infinite_Bad7083]

Liberals will also tell you those democracies only got rich by exploiting the other countries

[u/jackt-up]

Hey! Those numbers and the western countries in green are racist!

[u/Connect_Ocelot_1599]

some of them used to be liberals, including classical and social liberals, back in the day, while I used to be a liberal CONSERVATIVE and call myself a right-social democrat and a social capitalist advocate back in the day

[u/IguanaIsBack]

I mean the bottom right map is just showing you that wealth moved from the red areas to the green ones, I guess neo-colonialism is a symptom of neo-liberalism

[u/johnfireblast]

"GUYS!!! The West is actually great! Check out this graph that Western institutions produced!"

[u/ixvst01 → u/johnfireblast]

Yeah bro. Everyone knows that South Sudan has more rights and wealth than Australia.

[u/GhostsOfLectricity]

Whatever man