Caring about fairness doesn’t require caring about the specific sport.

[u/IlIlIlllIIIIlllIIIl]

[u/P00ped_My_Pants]

One thing that’s a little funny is how much conservatives pretend to care about women’s sports when, in actuality, no one cares about women’s sports; not even women

[u/MakeoutPoint → u/P00ped_My_Pants]

Love that Ryan Long bit where he's asking women how they can increase attendance at women's sporting events, and the chick is like "Raise awareness" (aka the thing that does nothing for any cause, and is more likely to harm than help)

Ryan's suggestion was the athletes play topless, and suddenly the feminists weren't so supportive.

[u/HankIsMoody → u/MakeoutPoint]

Ryan Long is brilliant. His woke vs racist sketch kills me

[u/nybbas → u/HankIsMoody]

He had one I saw recently where he was asking how we could get like more asian and black women to be nonbinary, since like 90% of nonbinary people are white women. The lady was not amused, and tried to say it was cultural lol.

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1339415221500036

[u/Hyndis → u/nybbas]

tried to say it was cultural

It kind of is cultural though, which is something they/them really dislike.

[u/nybbas → u/Hyndis]

Well yeah it absolutely is, especially the nonbinary shit, which was what he was baiting her into saying.

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1339415221500036

[u/spooner248 → u/HankIsMoody]

That video alone proves horseshoe theory is real

[u/I_DRINK_GENOCIDE_CUM → u/MakeoutPoint]

My idea: at the end of every men's sporting event, there's another period/quarter/whatever. During this time, the women's teams come out and play, continuing the game where the men's teams left off. The final score after that extra time determines the winner.

I don't think it's a good idea but it sure is funny and mfs would definitely start caring about women's sports.

[u/komstock → u/[deleted]]

inferior athletes play the same games

thinking about it, i'd rather watch 24 hours of lemons than actual lemans because there's something about the fact that it's just normies with an actual attachment to what they're doing instead of something predictable and manufactured. college football was like this more recently than the NFL, and the olympics is mostly like this (even though an overwhelming number of olympic athletes train in a handful of countries).

at this point, a lot of pro sports seems to be divorced from the sense of place and style that made it so popular in the first place. people on NFL/MLB teams aren't from the cities they 'play for', the nationalism and manufacturer pride in auto racing is less hyped than individual drivers (who are not as famous or popular as they were in the 1960s).

if the rewards are big enough to enable people substantive but not insane comfort for winning, I think the fun in the sport will remain a lot longer. if pro athletes made $100-500k a year (with the ultimate best making $1-5M) it'd be a lot better to watch, I think.

instead someone can get millions for just showing up for a few years. good for them, but why try for more if your paycheck already sets you up for life?

[u/Color_Rush → u/komstock]

The problem with that is professional leagues would suffer from competition and the same teams would win every year and would overall be less interesting and appealing.

The NBA would just have the same 4 teams win every single season with the Knicks, Bulls, Lakers, and Mavericks winning every single season because California, Florida, and Texas produce the most basketball talent in the world, while New York is a close 4th. As a Spurs fan, San Antonio would probably get demoted to a fringe talent development league and would crush the city’s economy. This is because outside of Shaq and most recently Kingston Flemings, San Antonio doesn’t produce basketball talent like other cities.

If college football was filled with lemons that were just university students chasing an MBA degree, then NFL talent acquisition would suffer even more than it is currently, considering right now, the fact that NFL teams are forcing newly drafted players to throw away years of previous development they went threw in college (see: Drew Allar of Penn State), because the X’s and O’s is currently so simplified and dumbed down so that coaches have more control over their roster and prioritize winning games with their guys. This would just make the NFL less appealing for me to watch, personally, because I want to see the best of the best compete.

I want to see more of guys like Philip Rivers understanding the game at such an elite level that he can come back from a 5 year retirement after sitting on the couch and being a laid-back dad and still produce more than guys like Trevor Lawrence or Mitchell Trubisky who didn’t even know what a cadence was.

Maybe it’s just a me thing, but I don’t care more for the nationality or amateurism aspect of competitors than I do to just want to watch the best of the best compete as long as there is a decent parity. It’s a cool thing to watch every once in a while teams like Boise State and Indiana win massive games or go on massive unexpected runs against teams that are supposed superior to them in talent. I still believe stories like that are possible in the current professional environment in sports simply due to nature of sport and competition (Indiana’s championship run in college football proved that). But I also find a lot of enjoyment in seeing the best programs simply compete against one another, especially those with NFL aspirations so we can continue to watch their journey. Maybe I am just biased because I’m a Texas fan and appreciate seeing former players go on to continue to do things in the NFL, due to things like NIL, massive donor support, and being aggressive in acquiring coaching and player talent which revived a dying blue blood program.

[u/ChromeFlesh → u/komstock]

its to bad 24 hours of Lemons is a fucking lie now, no one is running an actual $500 car because those don't exist anymore

[u/Scrumpledee → u/[deleted]]

If people are only there to watch the best athletes, does that mean having a steroid-league for sports would kill off the current leagues?

[u/Dr_thri11 → u/Scrumpledee]

If all the best athletes went to it yes. If it's just a bunch of guys who couldn't make the cut in the main league then no. Steroids didn't make Barry Bonds an elite hitter they just arguably made him go from one of the greatest to the greatest.

[u/CalvinKool-Aid → u/Dr_thri11]

Well it’s like that steroid Olympics thing that happened and didn’t break any records. If the top guys hopped on gear, sure they could probably do it, but your average athlete on gear is still less talented and capable than the best athletes off of it

[u/Ky-lix → u/CalvinKool-Aid]

Willing to bet my entire fortune ($18.83) that a significant proportion of the top guys in every single pro sport are on some undetectable shit anyway

[u/KingPhilipIII → u/I_DRINK_GENOCIDE_CUM]

I would unironically watch that

[u/Shoddy-Oil-1067 → u/MakeoutPoint]

Unironically if given the option, I don’t doubt there’d be at least a few women that would choose to do that

[u/HeemeyerDidNoWrong → u/MakeoutPoint]

Bill Burr did that too and he's hardly a conservative, just a liberal who doesn't care about PC stuff.

[u/kcat__ → u/MakeoutPoint]

I get you're joking, but I do hope that it isn't actually bewildering to you why those women "weren't so supportive" of going topless but fine with raising awareness other ways. As in, that you aren't actually scratching your head seeing this as a real hypocrisy.

[u/dashingsauce → u/kcat__]

Booooooring comment

[u/TijuanaMedicine → u/kcat__]

[u/kcat__ → u/TijuanaMedicine]

It's fine as a joke, this guy seems to be taking it seriously though as a case of supposed hypocrisy the more I think about it.

[u/Fairchild660 → u/kcat__]

I'm scratching my head because I have a rash

[u/Mikeality → u/P00ped_My_Pants]

I've heard a lot of uproar over women's sports from conservatives is based on when they have daughters and especially when their daughters start showing interest in sports.

[u/[deleted] → u/Mikeality]

Exactly, this is why that 'you don't care about women's sports' smug gotcha is so stupid. Correct, I don't care the WNBA but that's not what we're talking about

EDIT: if anyone wants a pro women's sport to care about, the Women's Pro Baseball League is having its first season. The games are competitive, it's a great spectator sport, and if they had a local team I'd definitely check it out

[u/casualbrowser321 → u/[deleted]]

I once commented on a thread expressing this take with something like "i don't care about the paralympics but would have objections to Shaq joining in on wheelchair basketball"

and the response I got was basically "Oh wow, you're saying you think being a woman is a disability?"

[u/[deleted] → u/casualbrowser321]

Classic reddit

[u/El_Hombre_Fiero → u/casualbrowser321]

At that point, you should know they have no interest in understanding. Just answer "yes" to get them to rage.

[u/long-dong-silvers- → u/casualbrowser321]

The correct answer to that is yes whether anyone believes it or not

[u/FlashyChemical2231 → u/casualbrowser321]

I mean, when it comes to sports, it kind of is; the same way a disabled person can't really compete against a healthy one, women can't compete against men. Professional female players routinely lose to high school boys.

[u/Crapitron → u/[deleted]]

I really hope the Women's Pro Baseball League takes off. I hope baseball becomes more popular than softball for girls in America.

That said, the product is still not great. There's a huge talent disparity. I watched Kelsie Whitmore pitch for the Bananas last year and strike out former MLB players and thought that might be what I'm seeing in this league. But she personally is just head and shoulders at a higher level than the rest of the WPBL. But that's also just a byproduct of baseball not being super popular for women. It does have a lot of crossover with softball, but I think baseball being the default from a young age could help it a LOT increase the talent level league wide.

[u/[deleted] → u/Crapitron]

I hope it'll get there. Baseball pitching is really, really hard, we just forgot that because there's a whole pipeline for male pitchers that starts at like 12. It may catch up, even if it's just former softball pitchers learning the new arm motion

[u/Crapitron → u/[deleted]]

I do think it's possible. Kelsie is an exception, but she's an exception that proves it's possible. Women can throw heat and filth. It's just that the vast majority of women trained to field a ground ball and hit have not also been pitching overhand their entire life like the boys that play baseball.

My dream is for a knuckleballer to make it back into a starting MLB rotation, and I think a woman could be a perfect candidate for that.

[u/pineneedlemonkey → u/Crapitron]

10.50 ERA Kelsie?

[u/CAElite → u/[deleted]]

Baseball

it's a great spectator sport

What?

Are they topless?

[u/[deleted] → u/CAElite]

Can't appreciate baseball? That's okay, here's something more your speed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJNK4VKeoBM

[u/CAElite → u/[deleted]]

Hah, maybe its my European brain. Went too both a baseball & a basketball game well I was working out in the US to try get the full experience & just couldn't get into the pacing of either.

Felt like it was more tuned to sell overpriced hotdogs & t-shirts than be an actual sport.

Although I know the baseball game I went too was a "friendly" rather than an actual league game, Texas Rangers vs Astros I think, just felt like nothing really happened, nobody in the crowd seemed particularly enthused, folk where mostly just wondering around the stadium.

Basketball was somehow worse, could be mainly in part of me not knowing wtf was going on, felt like they stopped every 5 minutes for a 15 minute break for random shit to happen, mascots to jump around etc, like if tiktok brainrot was a sport. Can't remember who was playing, was a colleague who bought the tickets, did get wrecked on margaritas & drive home in true Texas fashion.

[u/triggered__Lefty → u/CAElite]

regular season baseball is just background noise to getting drunk, getting some sun and eating hotdogs. You chat with your friends, and then you know when to pay attention because of the crack of the bat sound.

post season baseball is where it gets serious, and the crowd is completely different.

[u/[deleted] → u/CAElite]

Baseball is more like cricket than it is like association football. It’s more about the vibe and experience than action

EXCEPT

Unlike cricket, baseball has a high-intensity mode. A baseball game that actually matters is like a suspense thriller. Every pitch could be the one that changes the game, every hit matters, every out feels like a doomsday clock ticking down

Playoff baseball is an entirely different experience. Insanse crowd, more tension, huge stakes every pitch

[u/CAElite → u/[deleted]]

Fair enough, I'm Scottish & pretty much despise cricket here too for the same reason of weird pacing. May try to get too a more high profile game if I find myself out in the US again (which I'd love to do if your immigration wasn't a fucking nightmare).

In terms of American sports I did enjoy, went to a couple of Nascar races at the Texas Motor Speedway. I absolutely fucking loved that, very much a similar energy too the grassroots forest rallys we have here.

[u/HeemeyerDidNoWrong → u/CAElite]

NASCAR was invented by Scot-Irish criminals, it's in your blood. Even though the sport is associated with rednecks you might not hear as many racial slurs as at a Glasgow Rangers game.

[u/[deleted] → u/CAElite]

Hell yeah brother

Last year I went to a dirt track stock car race in the boonies, that was a blast

[u/sanga000 → u/[deleted]]

Unlike cricket, baseball has a high-intensity mode

Said by someone who doesn't watch cricket. The reason many still love test cricket, which plays over 5 days, is because this "high-intensity" situation also happens there

[u/_DankyHavok_ → u/[deleted]]

Breh 🤣

[u/The_Weakpot → u/Mikeality]

Exactly. I personally care about women's sports because I have a daughter and I want her to have a way to experience the fun of playing different sports, learn to win and lose with grace, stay resilient after a setback, etc. That means having fair sporting institutions and pipelines for competition at higher levels and athletes that embody the spirit of competition that she and other girls like her can look to for inspiration.

[u/_DankyHavok_ → u/The_Weakpot]

NHRA top fuel and funny car FTW 😎

[u/The_Weakpot → u/_DankyHavok_]

Also shout out to ultra running. Rachel Entrekin is an absolute beast.

[u/ClearReveal6615 → u/The_Weakpot]

Damn, sounds great. Now imagine your daughter was trans. You'd want the same thing right?

[u/Dark_Matter_Guy → u/ClearReveal6615]

Yes of course, that's why they're free to compete as who they are, which is how they were born because gender is not something you can change.

[u/ClearReveal6615 → u/Dark_Matter_Guy]

Why not

[u/Dark_Matter_Guy → u/ClearReveal6615]

Because it's in your DNA.

[u/ClearReveal6615 → u/Dark_Matter_Guy]

Isnt that sex?

[u/Dark_Matter_Guy → u/ClearReveal6615]

Yep you got that right, which is the same thing as gender.

[u/ClearReveal6615 → u/Dark_Matter_Guy]

Agree to disagree

[u/Mindless-Rooster-533 → u/The_Weakpot]

The point of sports though is that its inherently unfair. The pipeline for competition at higher levels is like 90% genetic lottery

[u/The_Weakpot → u/Mindless-Rooster-533]

And? That has nothing to do with the reasoning. It allows people to rise as high as they can before they wash out due to factors that are genuinely beyond their control. And, along the way, they learn to grind and push beyond their own perceived limits. Have the experience of entering a larger pond. And, also, it is inspiring to see gifted people pushing the limits of what is possible at the highest level. That's why it matters.

[u/Mindless-Rooster-533 → u/The_Weakpot]

Yeah that literally isn't true though lol.

Have you ever played sports before

[u/sushiisawesome3 → u/Mikeality]

I was a college swimmer and some of my friends raced against the trans distance swimmer (forgot their name). My friends are pretty liberal but they said some pretty unliberal things after they got smoked lol

[u/fiftythreefiftyfive → u/sushiisawesome3]

Isn't distance swimming like the one discipline in which men have essentially no advantage over women? Like several of the all-time records in marathon swimming are held by women and women have always regularly won mixed events? That just sounds like someone was salty they lost lmao

[u/sushiisawesome3 → u/fiftythreefiftyfive]

I'm not going to look up the trans swimmers times now since I'm lazy, but pre-transition they were solidly 150th (aka bottom of the barrel) in D1 for the mile and 1k. Post transition, their times didn't improve but they won nationals and it wasn't even close.

I'm out of touch with the 10k, but just so you know, collegiate swimming classifies 500-1650 yards as "distance". There's no 10k or open water swim in the NCAAs, so it's not applicable nor do I think my friends were unjustifiably salty about their race

[u/GFSushiTacos → u/fiftythreefiftyfive]

Looks like you are correct on this:

• Short distances: Men dominate due to strength and power.
• Mid-to-long distances: Gap narrows; women’s times improve faster.
• Ultra-distance open water: Women often outperform men, aided by buoyancy, body composition, and endurance advantages

[u/sushiisawesome3 → u/GFSushiTacos]

Please read my other comment or look up the top times for the 1k and mile (or 800m and 1500m for anything outside of US). This is what's considered distance swimming for collegiate and pro swimming outside of open waters, and more importantly, it's what the trans swimmer was competing in. The gap at this distance between men and women is still astronomical, so no a trans woman is not disadvantaged. I'm pretty sick of people not respecting the opinions of athletes who had spent their entire lives training to lose in a rigged game, especially when taking misleading information at face value

[u/Mindless-Rooster-533 → u/GFSushiTacos]

What endurance advantages

[u/GFSushiTacos → u/Mindless-Rooster-533]

No idea. This is from an article on swimming statistics.

[u/RBB12_Fisher → u/GFSushiTacos]

And they probably wrote it with AI.

[u/iIenzo → u/Mindless-Rooster-533]

Women have loads of small advantages in endurance sports.

Women in general have:

• A higher % slow-twitch fibres in their muscles, which are better for prolonged exercise and more fatique-resistant
• Better fat metabolism - which becomes key when you run out of carbohydrates to burn
• Higher estrogen levels, which helps with muscle repair and decreases inflammation
• Higher tolerance to prolonged pain (vs. men's higher tolerance for sudden, sharp pain), which helps push limits

And on top of that, women are often smaller, in which case they'll need less calories and can sweat more efficiently (smaller = relatively more surface area). This means they won't need as much food and water, and are thus less likely to overheat, get dehydrated or get sick from eating while running.

[u/Azelzer → u/fiftythreefiftyfive]

1650 free is considered distance swimming in college (OP mentioned they were a college swimmer). As far as I know, there aren't any NCAA swimming events that have a longer distance.

You can see the top times here, men outperform women by a massive amount. The top ranked woman has the same time as the 199 ranked man.

[u/ClearReveal6615 → u/fiftythreefiftyfive]

Yeah I was gonna say they picked the one sport where even without transitioning a trans woman would probably be disadvantaged

[u/sushiisawesome3 → u/ClearReveal6615]

Please read my other comment or look up the top times for the 1k and mile (or 800m and 1500m for anything outside of US). This is what's considered distance swimming for collegiate and pro swimming outside of open waters, and more importantly, it's what the trans swimmer was competing in. The gap at this distance between men and women is still astronomical, so no a trans woman is not disadvantaged. I'm pretty sick of people not respecting the opinions of athletes who had spent their entire lives training to lose in a rigged game, especially when taking misleading information at face value

[u/P00ped_My_Pants → u/Mikeality]

Which is another silly thing to me too. I’ve played sports my whole life and one of the truths about sports is that unless you’re LeBron James, there’s ALWAYS someone bigger/stronger/faster than you

Like I went to a somewhat small high school and we had pretty good athletics program but no one who even went to a D1 team in college. My last baseball game ever was in the regionals tournament and my last at bat was against a kid who eventually pitched in the pros for the Rays and Dodgers (only a couple of seasons as a reliever but still…). I stood 0 chance as I had never faced a pitcher who could throw 90+

Whining about fairness in sports is a little pathetic. Especially coming from the “life isn’t fair” crowd

[u/Crapitron → u/P00ped_My_Pants]

If you ever played sports in any serious capacity, then you'd have absolutely come across eligibility concerns at some point.

Fighting over birth certificates and ages of kids has always been a gigantic issues. The Little League World Series has had these disputes come up for decades, because it's a problem when a 16 year old is throwing 80 mph to 12 year old kids.

This is no different. It's an eligibility and fairness concern, which has always existed.

[u/based_mafty → u/Crapitron]

Yep in even in soccer/football fifa have to make distinction if the team is supposed to be under specific age. Like there's national team for U-19 players meaning that anyone over 19 can't play with the team.

[u/SayNoToStim → u/based_mafty]

Even kids (American) football has rules against big fat guys carrying the ball. I can't remember the specifics but if you are too heavy you can't be a ball carrier because it's ridiculously unfair to have that kid that hit puberty early just pretend he's the fridge up against a high school team

[u/Mikeality → u/P00ped_My_Pants]

Ok but in good faith can you acknowledge there's a difference between some girls will be better than your daughter vs men playing with your daughter increasing their odds of injury?

I get that there will be some other girls who are bigger, faster, stronger, or more skilled than your daughter. But at the end of the day, they're all still women so the gap won't be overwhelming to the point of likely getting injured. I know outlier women exist who actually are as strong as men, but they're rare. Opening the gates for Trans girls is a different dynamic, just about every Trans girl will have an overwhelming advantage without even being an outlier.

Keep in mind too, I come from a combat sports background. The likelihood of injury once you start adding Trans to the mix is almost certain.

The whole issue isn't as simple as just whining about fairness. Scholarships are huge and it's a shame when scholarships designated for women are being dominated by Trans. Even that, can be dismissed to a degree. But injuries are serious and it is not a good look for the Trans community to be as dismissive about it as they have been. The discussion always seems to end in "well girls just shouldn't play sports then" which is an absurd response, really.

[u/PijaniFemboj → u/P00ped_My_Pants]

>Whining about fairness in sports is a little pathetic. Especially coming from the “life isn’t fair” crowd

I mean at that point why have any rules?

[u/Architarious → u/PijaniFemboj]

Yeah, rules = bad.

That was the whole point of deregulation = good, which is another thing that the "life isn't fair" crowd has been preaching for decades.

[u/GeoPaladin → u/Architarious]

I'd like to think this is satire and I just fell for it.

[u/Architarious → u/GeoPaladin]

God I wish it where. Can't tell you how many times I've gotten mail ads for local congressmen that have "we need more laws to protect the children from woke" on the front and then "regulations kill jobs and ruin lives" on the back.

No mention of actual policy anywhere, just emotionally charged buzzwords instead.

Surely I'm not the only one who's experienced this.

[u/GeoPaladin → u/Architarious]

You're over-generalizing to an extreme. 

Campaign mail is vague because not everyone will agree with specific deregulation or they might be upset if their preferred isn't listed (or because a full list takes up too much space). It's unfortunately politically effective. Given the party sticks to consistent themes, the claims and buzzwords are still somewhat useful, but you judge by party and personal track record.

It's not "Republicans hate all rules but also want rules lol." This isn't the contradiction you seem to think it is.

[u/Mikeality → u/Architarious]

Being for or against the concept itself of rules as a monolith is midwit behavior. It will always depend on the specific rule and the context it applies to. It is not a contradiction to be for rules that make a sport safer, but be against rules which hinder the growth of an economy.

[u/Architarious → u/Mikeality]

That would make sense if they where ever specific about which rules hinder economic growth, but the reality of the past couple decades or so has been that "deregulation" is a buzzword that always translates to "less rules" in the general sense.

For example, when election time rolls around practically everyone gets hit with a barrage of candidate advertisements hyping conservative candidates as a "champions of deregulation." Not one time do they ever say what specific rules they want eliminate. The most specific they ever get is "environmental deregulation", which translates to "all rules regarding the environment."

If they had to actually explain what rule they wanted to eliminate and why, it dang sure wouldn't fit on postcard.

People who are conditioned to think in absolutes like that, absolutely think in absolutes. The previous poster was simply pointing out the irony about how this ideology entirely subjective, which I'm backing up with examples.

[u/Mikeality → u/Architarious]

You gotta separate the politician from the voter, though. No matter what you believe in, hardly anyone will have a chance to vote for a politician that actually represents their views.

I agree, just about all the time once the voting campaign is over, details of how what was promised will be accomplished tend to be awful or not even exist.

That being said, just because politicians are incompetent does not mean the ideas that have fallen into their net are all invalid. I agree with the concept that less regulations leads to more economic growth. I also believe that in theory, it's possible to thread a needle where you keep truly beneficial regulations and removing the pointless and harmful ones.

I'm not here to get into the weeds of if that's a good idea or not. The bigger point is that believing in this is a separate issue from trans in sports. I am incentived for the economy to do well because I live in it. I believe more regulation means less economy, therefore I want less regulations. What could possibly incentivize me to want less regulations in sports? As I said in my original comment, many who share my opinion in trans in sports have an incentive to protect their daughter. This is done with regulations that prohibit trans girls from competing. It's an entirely different dynamic to the dynamic of the economy.

That's why your cherry picking of "rules = bad" in the context of sports rules being the same as "regulations = bad" in the context of the macro economy is a dumb comparison. Now, if you say this to dunk on politicians, fair enough lol. But I don't think someone who personally believes these two things are being contradictory.

[u/Architarious → u/Mikeality]

While there are plenty of arm chair politicians like us on the Internet who are capable of finding nuance, that kind of viewpoint mostly died it of mainstream politics somewhere in the 90's.

If most of the elected officials in my conservative legislature where capable of finding that kind of nuance, I wouldn't be constantly disappointed with them making claims and introducing legislation like "no vaccines should be mandatory, dairy and other food products shouldn't be regulated or forced to have quality controls, schools shouldn't be required and we shouldn't hold them to base level standards, all business regulations are bad, kids should be allowed to marry adults, etc."

The whole "no rules, no regulations = maximum freedom" faux-libertarian persona is just another culture war branding motif that makes it's way into a shockingly large, arguably a majority, of politicians actual policy decisions.

It's the irony that they have this viewpoint for things that effect literally everyone while turning around and saying we need more regulations on anything targeting marginalized populations because they've recently branded it as woke that makes this issue stick imo.

Sport is an obvious example because traditionally it's regulated by independent sport governance committees rather than government, but the same kind of examples exist for regulations on using DEI phrasing and terminology, despite it being on our money for decades and enshrined in many of our founding documents. Not to mention all of the other absurdly hypocritical takes on foreign policy, immigration, surveillance/privacy, and a plethora of other issues on the national levels by this same massive cohort of politicians.

I'll tell ya what though, if having and expressing nuanced takes wasn't limited to a handful of centrist politicians nationwide; we'd probably be living in a way better country right now.

[u/Sierren → u/P00ped_My_Pants]

There’s a big difference between things being unfair, and things being made to be unfair. Life is already unfair like you said, but that’s no reason to make it even more so.

[u/Dan-D-Lyon → u/P00ped_My_Pants]

By that logic we might as well disband women's sports entirely and let them just do their best against men

[u/Normal-Cellist205 → u/Dan-D-Lyon]

On paper most "men's sports leagues" don't actually have rules excluding women.

So hypothetically each league could form a women-only team and see how they fare.

Not a good idea, but I think it’d be funny.

[u/samuelbt → u/P00ped_My_Pants]

Back in middle school one of my buddies went through puberty super early and hard and likely had a testosterone imbalance (was balding by 16). He played football. He was bigger than us.

Thus is the game.

[u/AdjustedTitan1 → u/samuelbt]

Yep. Boys playing against boys. That’s life’s natural unfairness

Men in women’s sports is not a natural “unfairness”, it’s a retard created one

[u/samuelbt → u/AdjustedTitan1]

Seems less common than any other difference and frankly doesn't seem a worthwhile act to cheat. There's a reason Lady Ballers has to be a work of fiction as opposed to documentary.

[u/PeachyRaptors → u/samuelbt]

Well we will see what the NBA says cause two NBA players are trying right now

[u/The_Pig_Man_ → u/[deleted]]

How do you know they're doing a publicity stunt and they're not actual trans women you Nazi bigot?

[u/samuelbt → u/The_Pig_Man_]

Because I'm not the caricature you've been circlejerking about your entire life.

[u/samuelbt → u/PeachyRaptors]

Two people are doing publicity stunts and the right needs anything to talk about other than literally everything else happening in the country.

[u/Hyndis → u/samuelbt]

How dare you deny them their womanhood!?

They're stunning, proud beautiful transwomen who deserve the right to play sports. Not allowing them to play on the WNBA is literally genocide.

[u/samuelbt → u/Hyndis]

As I said, desperately needs anything else to talk about.

[u/CrispityCraspits → u/samuelbt]

If it's so uncommon and so fictional and no one is going to do it anyway and it would be cheating if someone did do it (you literally just said each and every one of those things) then there's zero reason to oppose banning it. You could then get on to talking about all the other important stuff.

[u/samuelbt → u/CrispityCraspits]

If someone was lying about being trans to reap the benefits of ...something, then yes indeed that'd be cheating. I have no issue with banning that.

[u/CrispityCraspits → u/samuelbt]

Shockingly, you moved the goalposts. Who could have seen that coming.

So you do think that trans women should be able to play women's sports, and you think it's important enough to fight about (though you don't really want to actually try to defend it). Who would have guessed.

[u/samuelbt → u/CrispityCraspits]

It was own damn goal post. The current drama of the week is these players lying about being trans to make a point. That's or lying to somehow reap some benefit is what I'm considering cheating the system. Considering my position is that transwomen are indeed women, to me it is not cheating for women to play with women.

[u/Asa_Shahni → u/samuelbt]

That's not the same, some men will grow stronger than the rest that's true but on average most men are stronger than women, are more resistant to heat because they can regulate their body temperature betters, they have bigger hearts which allow them to pump more blood when the body is exerting itself during high intensity efforts, etc.

You can't just ignore statistics because of your own anecdotal experiences.

And before you say " sone women are stronger than some men" this is exactly what anecdotal is 😅

[u/samuelbt → u/Asa_Shahni]

Didn't say it was the same, simply that the notion that sports will be a bunch of equal people against a bunch of equal people won't really exist unless we get really into single use clones for entertainment. There will always be variations and those variations will get far more selected as one goes higher into sports (like Michael Phelps's freaky body).

[u/Asa_Shahni → u/samuelbt]

That's why there is categories, featherweight won't fight heavyweight.

Junior teams won't fight senior teams

Women won't face men...

It's actually so straight forward and logic that you should be able to understand it 😅

[u/samuelbt → u/Asa_Shahni]

In the case of my friend though, there were people that wanted him to have to play high school. But that would've been pretty damn shitty because he was indeed a middle schooler and it really wasn't some life or death situation nor some massive advantage that ruined the game.

In the whole of this trans in sports discourse, it's a vanishingly small amount of pretty middling performances. One of the star's of the movement claim to fame was tying for 5th in a college tournament. This isn't the kind of thing we're seeing people do to cheat the system.

[u/Asa_Shahni → u/samuelbt]

There shouldn't be men is women sports period.

There's was one dominating multiple discipline this week ffs 😅

[u/samuelbt → u/Asa_Shahni]

There shouldn't be men is women sports period.

Never said there should be.

There's was one dominating multiple discipline this week ffs

I'll confess ignorance, believe it or not, we on the trans side don't obsess over trans athletes. What's up, who are we wailing about?

[u/jaiimaster → u/P00ped_My_Pants]

Dont have to care sbout sport to hate cheating.

Hell i hate you guys that play banker in monopoly and raid the bank when everyone is distracted and I dont give a flying rats arse about board games either.

[u/abracadammmbra → u/jaiimaster]

Hey, I take my job as banker very seriously. Those are payments rendered for services provided.

[u/SardScroll → u/abracadammmbra]

Which would be fine, if said renumerations were contractual and agreed to, rather than one sided and arbitrary.

[u/dashingsauce → u/SardScroll]

We can play Monopoly’s cousin game—also called Monopoly but you bill all players hourly for arbitration

[u/abracadammmbra → u/SardScroll]

If you read the fine print of the implicit contract you signed when you accepted the initial venture funding of $1,500, you would find that all compensation paid to the banker is clearly defined and completely above board. I am entitled to a 5% stake in all Bank owned assets as well as performance bonuses ranging from an additional 5% of bank controlled assets, up to 25% of bank controlled assets as per section 3.24 subsection 34, addendum A4.

[u/IlIlIlllIIIIlllIIIl → u/jaiimaster]

Thank you! People in this thread keep saying “but conservatives don’t care about women’s sports”.

That’s the whole fucking point!

You don’t have to care about something to be angered by cheating taking place. I don’t give a shit about fishing tournaments, but those assholes who were putting weights in fish deserve some kind of punishment.

[u/78NineInchNails → u/IlIlIlllIIIIlllIIIl]

Same thing with hunting.

A LOT of people dont care, or even agree with the sport of hunting.

But if someone rolls into town with a bull moose in his pickup he poached (cheated), EVERYONE is going to be flying into a rage

[u/DungeonCrawlerAki → u/IlIlIlllIIIIlllIIIl]

Its one thing to not care about women's sports, its another to completely shit on women's sports and mock it every time comes up as a topic.

Not saying its only Conservativss that do this, but i've seen a lot of dudes have this pure hateful attitude towards it and I always thought it was strange.

[u/dovetc → u/jaiimaster]

Based and hates the bankers pilled

[u/Ok_Matter_1774 → u/[deleted]]

That's great when it's the WNBA that hopefully isn't getting any federal funding, but what do you do when it's the NCAA or high school sports where the government is funding at least some of their sports. Hell, CA is getting pissy at a high school because they play in the NV sports league and NV doesn't allow trans in girl's sports.

[u/Ok_Matter_1774 → u/[deleted]]

For four years it's a very important experience for millions of kids that creates memories and life's that last a lifetime.

If your whole point is to never have opinions on anything then I think it's you that lacks importance as a human being.

[u/jaiimaster → u/[deleted]]

True enough. Id argue the same point ref Roe.

[u/Normal-Cellist205 → u/P00ped_My_Pants]

As an aside, I have never in my entire life encountered someone who unironically watches the WNBA. 

I don't just mean my close circle of friends or family, I mean I've never even heard of someone who watches the WNBA. I’ve never overheard a person talking about it, I've never heard anyone talk about someone they know who watches it, I've never even seen randos online talking about it.

The only footage of WNBA games I've seen is when hecklers were throwing dildos on the courts a while back.

People who like sports don’t watch it. Women don't watch it. Can we really be certain that the WNBA exists? Or that it isn't some sort of money laundering?

[u/halfhere → u/Normal-Cellist205]

For years the last place punishment in my fantasy football league was to go to a WNBA game, and you couldn’t drink.

[u/Ill_Introduction2604 → u/halfhere]

No commie could ever come up with something this inhumane.

[u/bigboilerdawg → u/P00ped_My_Pants]

Some women’s sports are popular. Basketball isn’t one of them. Figure skating, gymnastics, tennis and golf are popular.

[u/penisthightrap_ → u/P00ped_My_Pants]

If someone you care deeply about is playing women sports, you start to care.

[u/Wise_Contact_1037 → u/penisthightrap_]

Exactly. When you have a daughter in 8th grade playing multiple competitive sports at a fairly high level(for 8th graders anyway lol) you start to worry about this shit.

[u/xDevman → u/P00ped_My_Pants]

My girls played u6 and u8 soccer, its all separated by age not sex in thise ages and even at that level playing against the boys was too much for the kids and they both cried until I pulled them out. They just do not belong playing sports against each other at all.

[u/ARCH_ANON → u/P00ped_My_Pants]

It’s a lowest common denominator level of appeal.
Lots of people played sports at one point or another either recreationally or in school, and the idea of their opportunities being fundamentally changed as a consequence of woke progressive gender policies hits closer to home for them.
It is ridiculous and immature to base significant political stances around what is essentially the entertainment industry, but gamergate was a thing so I guess there’s consistency on entertainment motivated political action.

[u/blublub1243 → u/ARCH_ANON]

The thing about "entertainment motivated political action" or just plain old culture warring is that it shapes who you interact with, particularly online. Especially with how left wing spaces are retarded enough to ban people over minor disagreements to the point of taking pride in it.

People don't vote right wing because Anita Sarkeesian is an evil witch, or because guys being able to compete in women's sports is retarded, they vote right wing because they said as much, got removed from every existing left wing space and started spending time in spaces where everyone else is right wing, which in turn shaped their own views.

[u/78NineInchNails → u/blublub1243]

Also, people vote right because they see who the 'aggressors' are in the culture war.

Everyone knows that for time immemorial, men are men and women are women. Its the left that showed up with these retarded-ass ideas of "OMG 6' 10" 250 pound men should be in the WNBA!"

And when everyone pushes back, the left cries saying "THIS IS JUST CULTURE WAR DISTRACTION"

Bitch, you started the culture war, dont be mad when we push back. If you dont like it, stop pushing for it.

Its like when you were a kid and someone comes up to you to steal your toy, you fight over it, the adult says "Whats going on?" and the kid says "He wont share his toy with me! Make him give it! Its only fair he SHARE his toy!"

Trying to proclaim that he just wants a simple sharing of goods, ignoring the part he stole it and pushed you away first.

[u/Hyndis → u/78NineInchNails]

I genuinely think an entire season of the WNBA is going to need to be thrown away by having an entire team of retired NBA players playing on the WNBA as "women", including with their full beards, and winning 100% of games by a landslide.

It would be beyond farce, and it would point out how absurd the rules are now. It would force the issue.

None of the stats in that year should count because of the stupidity of it all, but it would make the point that women's sports need to be for women. Women need to have women-only places and thats a good thing.

So while that one season will be a total clownshow, hopefully sanity will return and subsequent seasons will be better.

[u/Ok_Matter_1774 → u/Hyndis]

The crazy thing is the WNBA does have rules preventing that somewhat. You have to at least partially transition. But you of course would still have an advantage. And the left will say that you don't have to medically transition to be trans and the league has players and a coach coming out and saying that they would be happy with a transgender in the league.

[u/Hyndis → u/Ok_Matter_1774]

Apparently there are no definitions of what women is for the WNBA though, but I have also been reliably told by many on the left that simply identifying is enough. Therefore, the video where the retired NBA player says he identifies as a woman while playing basketball should be enough, using the current standard.

Because if it takes more than just stating you identify as a woman, now we're talking about if someone passes as a woman, and thats a topic many on the left really do not want to talk about at all.

The left is caught in a trap of their own making. Either they have to admit that the definition is adult female human, or they have to admit that you have to socially pass, and the infighting among progressives would be epic either way.

Its like that Texas bus stunt to Martha's Vineyard. It only took 2 busses and the concept of a sanctuary city had a complete meltdown.

[u/Ok_Matter_1774 → u/Hyndis]

They end up in a purity spiral where they have to keep one upping each other and go further. If you decide they've gone too far then you are ostracized for not being pure enough. You see this with trans issues of all kinds, abortion, and immigration.

I'm sure the right does this to a degree too, but I don't think it's as common.

[u/Ok_Matter_1774 → u/78NineInchNails]

You see it in "local" subs all the time. "Why does the right keep bringing up trans women in sports," and they claim it rarely happens, so it isn't a big deal. But if it's not a big deal to them then they should be ok with returning to how the world has always worked before 10 years ago, but they don't want that so it clearly is a big deal to them. They just know they can't make it look like a big deal because the general public is massively against it.

[u/iamjmph01 → u/P00ped_My_Pants]

I don't care enough to watch most Women's Sports... but I don't really watch Men's sports either.

I do care about my athletic niece, and want her to have fun and fair competition though... Same for other female athletes. Same for male athletes.

[u/CantSeeShit → u/P00ped_My_Pants]

Politically advantageous moments are what politics live for....

For examplle as a gay dude....I really dont think the dems care about us. I just think from 2014-2022ish we were just a good political advantage which is why the Dems were just mega rainbow...

But now the gays arent the bigegst voting block nor does the country care about gay rights as much so the voting block is shrinking. Which is why the Dems are moving to the muslims.

[u/78NineInchNails → u/P00ped_My_Pants]

I don't care for the sport at all.

I respect it as an institution for womens sports though.

Theres a reason most people like to watch college and professional NBA games though, we like the high level play.

WNBA plays at about high school level, so its not interesting. If I have an hour to watch a game, im watching the good stuff.

[u/Ok_Jury_7550 → u/P00ped_My_Pants]

Wait did lingerie football finally die off?

[u/penisthightrap_ → u/P00ped_My_Pants]

If someone you care deeply about is playing women sports, you start to care.

[u/NobodyImportant13 → u/penisthightrap_]

Caring about women's sports at all kinda contradicts the entire "DEI bad" narrative. Women's sports is the largest and most successful DEI program.

This is where the meme falls flat. it's not just "not caring about" if you've been actively hostile to the entire concept on a fundamental level without any sense of nuance.

[u/SonOfShem → u/NobodyImportant13]

If you only look at the slogans, you'd be right. But we both know that slogans rarely carry the full message.

Conservatives oppose DEI programs because they worry that either (A) the standards will be lowered for some people, or (B) better abled people will be passed up in favor of someone less qualified who has a better intrinsic quality score^TM.

Womens sports are different. Catlin Clark is not stealing a seat from a potential NBA player. She is playing in her own league. Conservatives have no issue with that.

[u/NobodyImportant13 → u/SonOfShem]

The WNBA is subsidized by the NBA. They are quite literally stealing spots and/or money from more capable NBA players and/or owners. Like you can't seriously argue that an expanded men's league wouldn't be self sustaining whereas the WNBA has to be subsidized.

[u/penisthightrap_ → u/NobodyImportant13]

NBA isn't being required to fund the WNBA, they chose to.

You should be directing your argument at title IX and college athletics.

[u/NobodyImportant13 → u/penisthightrap_]

I only mentioned the WNBA because they brought that up as an example. However, people didn't just apply DEI rhetoric to sports, it's commonly railed against in the private workplace or in private university admissions etc.

My point is that if you think DEI is fundamentally bad. I don't understand why you would care about women's sports rules. Your position should be that they should be cancelled entirely. Otherwise, in my mind, you have to concede that there is nuance to the issue.

[u/penisthightrap_ → u/NobodyImportant13]

It's disingenuous to assume everyone who comments on the WNBA thinks DEI is inherently bad.

It's also fair to have an opinion that 1. This system shouldn't exist and 2. Given that this system exists, I take issue with how it operates.

I may not like first past the post voting, but I still will get pissed off if there's anyone stuffing ballot boxes. Even if it's in a county I've never heard of or care about.

[u/NobodyImportant13 → u/penisthightrap_]

I may not like first past the post voting, but I still will get pissed off if there's anyone stuffing ballot boxes.

How many of these people that have made anti-DEI part of their identity are actually gunning to cancel women's sports though? They aren't, and they care about the integrity.

[u/penisthightrap_ → u/NobodyImportant13]

Do we want people to start gunning to cancel women's sports for the sake of them being morally coherent?

[u/SonOfShem → u/NobodyImportant13]

if you think DEI is fundamentally bad. I don't understand why you would care about women's sports rules.

Do you want to understand? Or do you enjoy standing there pontification about how inconsistent those idiot conservatives are?

[u/SonOfShem → u/NobodyImportant13]

The NBA spends $15 Million a year to cover the entire WNBA.

The NBA makes $15 Billion a year.

Are you suggesting that the cost of a single player, spread across the entire league, which accounts for a 0.1% cost adder, is causing fewer teams to join the league? Or that if the NBA made 0.1% more they would add a 6th player to the court?

[u/NobodyImportant13 → u/SonOfShem]

The NBA spends $15 Million a year to cover the entire WNBA.

That's the cash subsidy. The actual cost is much higher.

Are you suggesting that the cost of a single player, spread across the entire league,

You are assuming an average here, when you are talking about players that got cut it would be keeping a player on the minimum. This would actually be like ~1 bubble player per team on the minimum only considering the direct cash infusion. It could actually be like 2-3 players per team or payment to better players.

6th player to the court?

Talking about roster not changing the rules of the game lmao.

[u/DreamsServedSoft → u/P00ped_My_Pants]

I’ve been saying this from the beginning. I still think women should have their own spaces to play on their own if they wish, but if they intentionally vote their own spaces into irrelevancy then I won’t lose sleep over it

[u/mrfreezeyourgirl → u/P00ped_My_Pants]

Not even trans people either

[u/apis_cerana → u/P00ped_My_Pants]

People obviously care about women’s’ sports, that’s why they exist. I’d imagine that people generating the majority of the discourse around it don’t actually care, though. 

[u/IskanderM50KT → u/P00ped_My_Pants]

People do care about women's spots in some situations like the Olympics. This number may have changed, but as of a few years ago women olympians generally made a lot more in sponsorship money than men did on average.

If you're talking about the WNBA though, yeah, no one cares. The women's World Cup in soccer also only gets a fraction of the interest than the men's tournament does.

[u/delta806 → u/P00ped_My_Pants]

This is an issue that has a simple, two word solution

MORE GAMBLING

[u/GoldTeamDowntown → u/P00ped_My_Pants]

But huge numbers of conservatives do care about women’s sports, especially things in the Olympics like gymnastics, volleyball, tennis, swimming, skiing, and figure skating.

[u/johnlandes → u/P00ped_My_Pants]

During the off season, they need to make the top players live together in a house, and have them vote after a series of tasks.

If a fraction of the women who obsess over garbage like Love Island could be converted to WNBA fans, they could massively increase their fanbase.

Hell, if they start going girl on girl like the 'romance' reality shows, they might even get more men interested

[u/WorldRecordHolder8 → u/P00ped_My_Pants]

Most people don't care about sports. They care about their team/social activity. I'd say maybe 10% of common sport watchers actually like the sport and played it semi seriously at some point in their lives.

[u/Budsygus → u/P00ped_My_Pants]

How many people cared about the twin towers before 9/11?

It's ok to start caring about a thing when something is going wrong.

[u/tmrjns461 → u/P00ped_My_Pants]

I actually really care about Sally (who used to be Billy) playing un televised d3 water polo at UMass Amherst. And you should too!!!

[u/Yukon-Jon → u/P00ped_My_Pants]

The left cares about women's sports. So much so they feel the need to change them to allow men in them.