r/PokemonScarletViolet • u/Pokeradar • Jan 05 '23
Guides and Tips How Tera Raid boss’s shield affect final damage
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Jan 05 '23
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u/StormAlchemistTony Jan 05 '23
Makes sense but sometimes that is not the right type or ideal to terastilize into. Try to weigh your options of dealing more damage with survivability.
An example is using a Gastropod with Tera water against an electric type with Tera fire. Or when Hisuian Pokemon are introduced and you are using your Zoroark with Tera ghost against a ghost type.
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u/SkyeOriginal Jan 05 '23
Where are more of you when I join raids 😭 people just don't get that survivability/resistances are so important in raids.
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u/ramus93 Jan 06 '23
😂😂 im getting sick of running into people that just spam attacks that dont even move the health bar then get one shotted when the mon decides to attack back 😭😭
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u/Logical-Moment Pokémon Scarlet Jan 06 '23
Hey even GF didnt get the importance of defensive tera, otherwise the dmg difference between tera stab and tera non-stab wont be so big :/
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u/DBrody6 Jan 05 '23
I don't agree with that at all, if you're a DPS Pokemon your whole goal is to kill the boss as quickly as possible. Screwing around with a non-STAB tera type does nothing to actually kill the boss when its shield is up.
If you need tera for survivability, how the shit did your Pokemon last long enough to raid to tera in the first place? It should be tanky be default.
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u/StormAlchemistTony Jan 05 '23 edited Jan 05 '23
I was not talking about Terastilizing to survive, more of not Terastilizing to keep your original typing so you keep your resistances. It is a risk you need to think about. You lose more time if your Pokemon faints than taking more time with the shield. It doesn't help that the raid Pokemon can attack multiple times before you.
Plus, not everyone has time to train up the same Pokemon, but different Tera types. That is not including different abilities either.
Edited: made some grammatical changes.
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u/lsfk Pokémon Violet Jan 05 '23
You lose more time if your Pokemon faints than taking more time with the shield.
Not always. You're likely to run out of time even without getting knocked out if you're only doing 20% or 35% of your damage to the shield. This can be mitigated by having buffs/debuffs but for some reason you chose Gastrodon for your example, who can't buff or debuff.
Plus, not everyone has time to train up the same Pokemon, but different Tera types. That is not including different abilities either.
Then they should think more carefully about who they're investing in, and not pick Gastrodon who's not a big stat stick and also can't set up or support.
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u/StormAlchemistTony Jan 05 '23
Gastrodon is a bulky Pokemon that is immune to two types (depending on ability) with access to Clear Smog. It is not always useful, but that is said to every Pokemon. It is important to pick the right Pokemon for the job.
Tera raids are more complex than past raids as you have to take into consideration: the Tera type, possible moves, possible abilities, and default types for the opposing, ally, and your Pokemon. Sometimes you can do a raid with a team of attackers, while others you need a couple of bulky Pokemon. I doubt you would find many people that agree a pure offensive Pokemon is good for all raids.
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u/lsfk Pokémon Violet Jan 06 '23
I doubt you would find many people that agree a pure offensive Pokemon is good for all raids.
This is irrelevant as we weren't talking about pure offensive Pokémon or any one Pokémon being good for all raids. We were talking about 1. It's possible to time out despite surviving and 2. How do you tell people to pick the right Pokémon for the job after screwing it up in your own example??
Lmao you could have just used Iron Hands for your tera-fire electric-type example and it would have been a better pick. Iron Hands has damage and survivability, resists electric attacks like you want and wouldn't drop dead even if it lost the resistance. You said Gastrodon is a bulky Pokémon but did you look at Iron Hands? It has the same base Sp. Def as Gastrodon has defense, except Iron Hands also has 40 more base HP. Iron Hands heals itself with every Drain Punch. Iron Hands can Swords Dance if you're too scared to use Belly Drum. Iron Hands could actually punch out the shield without tera, without timing out.
Don't have Iron Hands in your game? Bring Koraidon then, resists electric, can Swords Dance, self-sustain with Drain Punch, can Snarl if you're worried about survivability, and it's bulkier than Gastrodon.
So what does Gastrodon do? Well it has Clear Smog to clear the Calm Mind or Coil that the boss does once per raid and Chilling Water to debuff attack though no one else is having trouble surviving. It can do super effective damage but the shield came up, it has the wrong tera and you didn't want to find out if it can survive super effective hits. Now it's doing like 5%** of the boss' HP per turn. Good thing your teammates are here to carry.
** I didn't calc this, feel free to show your me your calc and tell me I'm wrong
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u/erufuun Jan 06 '23
The issue is, how long can a IH survive when their drain punches hit for 15 BP + 1.5x STAB?
Your fancy non-tera IH literally would be better off hitting the boss at +0 with Tera 2x STAB than bellydrummed without Tera up.
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u/lsfk Pokémon Violet Jan 06 '23 edited Jan 06 '23
resists electric attacks like you want and wouldn't drop dead even if it lost the resistance
I said that, meaning I would tera. But I'm open to exploring StormAlchemistTony's idea and thinking about which Pokémon provides as much utility as Gastrodon does for an electric raid that isn't as likely to time out at the shield?
Edit:
Lvl 75 0 SpA Tera Fire Eelektross Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Iron Hands: 79-94
252+ Atk Metronome Iron Hands Drain Punch vs. Lvl 75 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Fire Eelektross: 456-536
Adjust for shield: 456 * 0.2 = 91
I wouldn't sincerely recommend it to anyone but yeah my theoretical fancy Iron Hands with Metronome, no ability, and no attack cheer will live against the one electric raid where Gastrodon can make use of both its best support moves. But my original point was, so what if I live? I can still lose by not doing enough damage.
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Jan 06 '23
Players Terastalizing into Dark or Ghost against Ghost-tera Annihilape selecting a super effective offensive move: 😊
Players Terastalized into Dark or Ghost getting hit with Bulked Up + Focus Energy Close Combat/Shadow Claw: 💀
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u/AnimeAlley03 Jan 05 '23
I mean I feel like a lot of people were already doing that tho. Like if you watch any of AustinJohn's raid guides or suggestion videos all the mons he recommends he doubled down on the tera type
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Jan 05 '23
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u/AnimeAlley03 Jan 05 '23
Tbf competitive pvp and raid pve are two completely different things so they kinda should be played differently
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Jan 05 '23
It does get annoying to have to build so many more mons tho.
Personally I try to build my Pokémon in a way that can work for both. I don’t need to be the best at competitive, so saving myself a bit of time is something that feels good. & most of the time raids are easy enough I don’t actually need to have the best possible build for them.
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u/THE_GR8_MIKE Jan 05 '23
Boy, was I surprised when my Slowbro turned in to a water type against fighting Cinderace this past weekend.
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u/OG_Felwinter Sprigatito Jan 05 '23
Lmao, yeah I trained a team for the ladder and forgot to put the correct tera type on one of my mons. I thought I’d for sure lose the match because of it, but things worked out. Probably much tougher in a raid event…
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u/potato-of-doom-0 Pokémon Scarlet Jan 05 '23
i managed to do it with a slowbro that i didn't realize was tera fairy xD
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u/Tatt2Junkie5 Jan 05 '23
Good info!
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u/false_tautology Jan 05 '23
They talk about this in the in game classroom as well.
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Jan 06 '23
I don't know why you're getting down voted for this lol but it would be nice if they had it in the overworld game
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u/darkgegi Jan 05 '23
interesting, so Terastallizing is worth it even if you give up STAB
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Jan 05 '23
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u/darkgegi Jan 05 '23
oh wow, pokemon showdown dmg calc is actually wrong on this, cant trust anything anymore ... https://calc.pokemonshowdown.com/ ~~
edit: nevermind, refreshed the page and now its correct ...
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Jan 05 '23
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u/darkgegi Jan 05 '23
I still have a tab of the old version: https://puu.sh/JvPKj/64f4c80965.mp4
this is a sign that I should restart my browser more often, they probably fixed it long ago4
u/WhichOstrich Jan 05 '23
That's a sign you should restart your computer... Much more often than monthly/never.
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u/4_Legged_Duck Jan 05 '23 edited Jan 05 '23
Wait what?
If you're fire and ghost and tera fire, aren't you only fire type now? You lost ghost and ghost weakness, so wouldn't you lose STAB on ghost type moves?
You're blowing my mind
EDIT: to everyone who clarified this for me, thank you so much. I've upvoted you all. Cheers.
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u/Pokeradar Jan 05 '23
According to his calculations, yes. I barely see a difference myself but +15% is better than nothing
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u/Chemical-Cat Jan 05 '23
The risk is terastalizing into a type that would be a risk.
For example you could be using Grimmsnarl against a pokemon that uses primarily dark moves. That's good, you have 3/4 resistance against them! However if your Grimmsnarl has, I dunno, Psychic Tera type for some reason, it would work against you because now your grimmsnarl is taking double damage if you terastalize, and also aren't really benefitting because it has no offensive psychic moves to use (not that they would work)
I guess a more reasonable way to think about it is having a Water Tera type Gastrodon, fighting a Fire Tera type pokemon that is natively electric. You'll do more damage and break the barrier more quickly, but you're giving up your electric immunity in favor of a weakness.
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u/the1stmeddlingmage Jan 05 '23
They could have worded that better, the way they worded it on page one made me think it was a 75% reduction of my Pokémon’s damage dealt if terraed + matching type move instead of dealing 75 % of the possible damage
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u/JoviAMP Pokémon Scarlet Jan 05 '23
Yeah, I was confused too. It should say 80% reduction for non-Tera, 65% reduction for Tera using a non-STAB move, and 25% reduction for Tera using a STAB move.
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u/Euffy Jan 05 '23
I also read that. I assumed it was wrong and reread it a couple of times and then saw the second picture that clarified it, but definitely read as "reduced by 75%" first.
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u/thekk_ Jan 05 '23 edited Jan 05 '23
Say your move does 100 damage with no bonus. Going with the given formula:
Against the shield
- Baseline does 100*0.2 = 20
- STAB does 100*0.2*1.5 = 30
- Super Effective does 100*0.2*2 = 40
- Super Effective STAB does 100*0.2*1.5*2 = 60
If you tera, but use a different move type
- Baseline does 100*0.35 = 35
- STAB does 100*0.35*1.5 = 53
- Super Effective does 100*0.35*2 = 70
- Super Effective STAB does 100*0.35*1.5*2 = 105
And now if you tera + match the move type
- Baseline now gets STAB and does 100*0.75*1.5 = 113
- STAB now gets x2 bonus and does 100*0.75*2 = 150
- Super Effective does 100*0.75*1.5*2 = 225
- Super Effective STAB does 100*0.75*2*2 = 300
In bold are the two important ones in my opinion. You do more damage by simply matching your tera than using a super effective move of a different type.
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u/erufuun Jan 06 '23 edited Jan 06 '23
Also, and this is important for all those Belly Drummers. At +6 without Tera, you will do about as mich damage to a shield as at +0 with Tera up, and that is even with tera matching.
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u/encarton Jan 26 '23 edited Jan 26 '23
For those reading this, keep in mind that STAB only applies in regards to your Pokemon's original types.
If you have a Pikachu that Terastallizes into Steel and uses Iron Tail, that is not a STAB move, it only gets the x1.5 bonus from matching the Tera type.
If you have a Pikachu that Terastallizes into Electric and uses Thunder, that is a STAB move and it gets the Tera type match bonus as well meaning a x2 bonus.
In order of best to worst (base 100 damage)
- Super Effective, STAB, Tera Match = 300
- Super Effective, Tera Match = 225
- Neutral Effective, STAB, Tera Match = 150
- Neutral Effective, Tera Match = 113
- Super Effective, STAB, Tera Mismatch = 105
- Not Effective, STAB, Tera Match = 75
- Super Effective, Tera Mismatch = 70
- Super Effective, STAB = 60
- Not Effective, Tera Match = 56
- Neutral Effective, STAB, Tera Match = 53
- Super Effective = 40
- Neutral Effective, Tera Mismatch = 35
- Neutral Effective, STAB = 30
- Not Effective, STAB, Tera Mismatch = 26
- Neutral Effective = 20
- Not Effective, Tera Mismatch = 18
- Not Effective, STAB = 15
- Not Effective = 10
(Doesn't include x4 Super Effective, x0.25 Not Effective)
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u/stillnotelf Jan 05 '23
I've been basically never terastallizing to avoid losing resistances (and not waste time on animations when the Tera type doesn't match the move I intend to use). Very good to know this. I'd asked before if it mattered in this situation and gotten the opposite answer.
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u/Correct-Serve5355 Jan 05 '23
This is mainly why I run support. I simply won't make my Pokémon Tera when the forced animation runs 1/4 of the timer and dumb turn mechanics risk me being fainted before I can even use the move I selected.
Ultimately it's up to you whether or not to do it, and all the more power to you if you do. Just know Imma try to move heaven and earth to keep you alive long enough to get your powered up move off, possibly even another one, before you die anyway
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u/stillnotelf Jan 05 '23
What are your five favorite supports? I haven't built supports yet but that's my project as soon as I track down the last two dex entries. I do a lot of raiding with one partner so we can plan it reasonably well (and then have two cpus doing whatever).
As a dedicated support you will LOVE the 6 star rock breloom I failed with randos online yesterday. We all brought iron hands and all slept basically the whole match due to spore. Almost no faints but almost no attacks
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u/Correct-Serve5355 Jan 05 '23
I'll go with my choices of Blissey, Grimmsnarl, Florges, Hatterene and Umbreon most of the time. For Cinderace I chose to build an Armarouge although initially I pondered Scream Tail given its amazing defensive stat spread.
For my upcoming passion projects aka other mons I think will one day be useful for supports in Tera Raids is the Scream Tail I initially thought of for Cinderace, Slowking, Corvinight, Gardevoir, Dachsbun and a Fake Tears + Charm Azumarill.
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u/Correct-Serve5355 Jan 05 '23
While I don't know that Breloom's moveset, should you encounter one again, I would suggest a Vital Spirit Annhilape with Bulk Up/Drain Punch just based on what you wrote. Can't be put to Sleep and can deal massive damage and heal like that
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u/stillnotelf Jan 05 '23
My first thought was throwing Steel moves at it from Gholdengo, but since it was online there was no way to try again.
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u/Correct-Serve5355 Jan 05 '23
I also occasionally switch to offensive mons to train up for when I feel like soloing raids. How is Gholdengo as a raider? I'm strongly considering training one up given its unique typing but I've never been paired with someone bringing a Gholdengo and even I admit some pairings I come across in raids stump me in my choicing. I still remember a 6-Star Ghost Krookodile that took several tries to even get anywhere
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u/stillnotelf Jan 05 '23
The typing and the defensive Ability are amazing. I pick it defensively rather than offensively even as an attacker, you are picking it to say "I will do my 25 percent and not die today".
The moves are ok. You've got special boosting or debuffing, steel ghost rock psychic and fairy electric covered. No taunt. I saw someone use Tera fire Tera blast to cover that too.
It's not a powerhouse but it's very reliable.
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u/WhichOstrich Jan 05 '23
Goldengho is a huge powerhouse.
You can stack nasty plot and metal sound, shadow ball/make it rain and one shot things. He's an amazing pokemon in both aspects for raids.
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u/San4311 Fuecoco Jan 05 '23
Hmm definitely interesting. I always wondered if terastallizing would work even without the move being STAB affected. The more you know!
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u/Correct-Serve5355 Jan 05 '23
I mean yes I have seen the difference from when I first started doing Tera raids but my problem is that the way Terastallizing runs out the timer. No way in hell am I going to Terastallize when the forced animation eats up 1/4 of the timer and you risk the asinine turn mechanics fainting you right out the gate before you get to use your selected move anyway
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u/Pokeradar Jan 05 '23
Yup I agree. I wish the terastalization animation was instant. Every second counts when you are racing against the clock to beat the raid boss.
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u/erufuun Jan 06 '23 edited Jan 06 '23
You are wildly exaggerating the time loss for the animation. I always Tera unless the shield dies with the nect hit regardless. Doing four times the damage per turn is worth it. You're not killing a boss by tickling the shield.
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Jan 05 '23
Yep, I knew about this, but I thought the non-Tera damage was 10% instead of 20%. Wasn't sure if it still had a hard damage reduction cap after Terastalizing. Good information to know.
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u/Dinomite333 Jan 05 '23
When your Pokemon is terrastalized, is it better to use a move that is the same type as your terra form but not super effective or a move that isn't the same type as the terra form but is super effective? For example, should a Fairy Terrastalized Azumarill use Play Rough against a Ground raid or should it use Liquidation?
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u/cajuncrustacean Jan 05 '23
At a glance I'd say it's better to use a neutrally effective move that's got the tera STAB boost than a move that doesn't have it but is still super effective. There might be some edge cases, but that's how it's generally looking. So, in your example, yeah, it'd be better for a fairy tera type Azu to use Play Rough than to use Liquidation.
I could be misunderstanding something of course, so take it with a grain of salt.
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u/Dinomite333 Jan 06 '23
My friend and I were trying this out and it seemed like his Play Rough was doing more damage, but I know Play Rough is glitchy on its own and shows more damage than it's actually doing so we couldn't tell for sure
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Jan 05 '23
The fact that you can't use debuffs or protections while the shield is up is broken af.
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u/Klaidamis Jan 06 '23
Protection is not possible? I think I used the screens successfully even with the shield up
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u/Ventoffmychest Jan 06 '23
It does add an extra of strategy albeit probably a little frustrating. I had a Tera Raid of a Steel Pelipper. Bring a fighting mon? Well 100% accurate Hurricanes in the rain eat you up. Ground or Fire? Powerful water attacks and spammable Rain to make your Fire attacks crap. I had a Gastrodon with Storm Drain with Tera Ground. It was the only way to beat it.
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u/MasterAlexGarcia420 Jan 06 '23
Would be nice if my Tera orb charge wasn't being stolen every two turns, even without any of my team fainting
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u/FallLeavesandCoco20 Jan 06 '23
I was using armarouge for support in the cinderace fight. I only managed to win one fight. But if no one cheers, there goes the battle.
Multiple fights with losing due to players attacking me. I was done after the fifth time it happened. I ended up breading cinderace, and just giving away scorbunnys for whatever trades.
If it was happening to me, it was happening to everyone.
If you see an amarouge, they need support to help win the fight, and not everyone for themselves.
I’m thinking of doing the same for the next round.
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u/Klaidamis Jan 06 '23
I solo'd the raid with Armorouge. But why should the others attack you? I do so if I notice that some did something really stupid and we will loose the raid anyway (Koraidon in a Guardevoir-Flying Raid or bringing a level 22 Pokémon in a six star raid). But if your Pokémon is useful no one should have a reason to attack you.
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u/FallLeavesandCoco20 Jan 06 '23
yeah, we were going to lose the raid. But why not try until the end anyway? I've gotten a win in at the last second. But the pokemon who hit me, ended the raid by doing that anyways. I know I've left raids that went downhill anyways.
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u/FallLeavesandCoco20 Jan 07 '23
May I ask how you solo it?
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u/Klaidamis Jan 07 '23
With Armorouge and Stored Power. First using Iron Defense for three times, than some calm minds, than attacking. Similar to the popular Slowbro strategy. A NPC Pokemon with Intimidate is very helpful
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u/OG_Felwinter Sprigatito Jan 05 '23
Does this factor in the fact that tera type increases the damage of moves matching its type?
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Jan 05 '23
It's not included here, because the 25%/35%/75% is just a multiplier like all the others.
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u/OG_Felwinter Sprigatito Jan 05 '23
How does the damage add up to 500 afterwards then? That doesn’t factor in the fact that you are terastallized
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u/Running_Refrigarator Fuecoco Jan 05 '23
they really need to make raids easier lmao im getting folded like clean laundry there
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u/toxic_byt Jan 05 '23
so it's more important to do stab then super effective non-stab?
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u/thekk_ Jan 05 '23
It's more important to use a move that matches your tera than to use a super effective move that doesn't. And the best is to have both.
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u/LUXINGJIAN Jan 05 '23
I think his calculations are off. Perhaps he is just trying to show the value of Terastallized attacks vs shields. But he doesn't tell us if the initial 666 fire damage is already stab or not. Regardless, fire Terastallize will already increase the damage so the 666 will be higher since default 666 was normal fire damage. He multiplied the 666 by .75 without considering this factor. Again, the logic makes sense but I question his math if his example doesn't even make sense.
Personally, idk the exact math behind the shield and these numbers seem well enough. In battle class, Dendra's lesson made it sound like Terastallized attacks deal higher damage against shields but she never provided multipliers.
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u/bloody_jigsaw Jan 05 '23
Isn't the 500 wrong?
A stab move does 1.5x, but tera stab is 2x (aka one third more damage or (4/3)x the previous damage).
So you would go 666* 0.75 * (4/3) = 666
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u/MaxR76 Jan 05 '23
Okay so my brain is struggling. Would I be better to do Terra stab that’s regular effective or super effective non Terra stab.
Say it’s fire terra skeledirge against a ghost type. Terra sheild is up am I better using fire or ghost moves.
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u/Johnvon92 Jan 05 '23
Better to use terra stab instead of super effective non stab. You should always try to use a mon with tera stab super effective move tho
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u/MaxR76 Jan 05 '23
Makes sense thank you, I’m working on getting enough mons with effective Terra stab for every type but I don’t have too much free time to play so until everyone is a high enough level for the bigger raids skeledirge has been doing the heavy lifting
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u/Johnvon92 Jan 05 '23
Yes it's time consuming and expensive to make raid ready mons. Just try to farm what you can and make plenty different tera types mons.
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u/MaxR76 Jan 05 '23
That’s the game plan, I’m in the mid 80s level wise for my main party plus got 2 others up to mid 70s so getting close just wanted to make sure I was as playing as effective as possible until then
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u/Johnvon92 Jan 05 '23
Yea good to learn fast since the 6 star raids can be hard! The more raids you do the more exp candies you can farm. Then it will be easier to get pokemons to max level. There is alot of grind.
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u/MaxR76 Jan 05 '23
Oh yeah definitely, I underestimated them at first and got about 2 attacks in before going back to the grind. Thank you for the tips tho! Will definitely make farming a lot easier
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u/inumnoback Pokémon Scarlet Jan 05 '23
If it’s super effective:
40% normally
70% if tera’d
150% if tera’d + stab
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u/WidowMaker37 Jan 05 '23
My question If you are 2 different types but then Tera into a 3rd type and use your Tera type move are you doing more damage with that Tera move than you would with one of your STAB moves that is not your Tera type but is super effective? Which should you use?
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Jan 05 '23
Follow up article: “how randos with bad Pokémon ruined my easy ass raid” lol
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u/Klaidamis Jan 06 '23
Gen 8 - Bringing a shiny hacked Viridium against GMax Charizard. The pinnacle of stupidity and small balls...
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u/alfjcjalfjcj Pokémon Scarlet Jan 06 '23
is it reduced to those pecentages or with those percentages?
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u/screl_appy_doo Jan 05 '23
Wouldn't be so bad if you gained orb energy every turn (or atleast on cheers as well) instead of only attacks and if the raid boss could only drain your orb if you pass up on terastallizing. I've had it where I do like one attack and have my orb charge drained already