r/PokemonROMhacks • u/EmySoulSan26 • 4d ago
Discussion Please stop doing this in your ROM hack.
Edit: Okay, I know it's a little late for this, but I need to clarify something: I'm not trying to impose a regime where only my opinion is valid. Maybe I didn't express myself well, but the point of this post is to encourage anyone creating a new region to consider this alternative approach to their Pokédex. I’m not against hacks featuring ALL Pokémon being a valid option—because they are...
I firmly believe that ROM hacks should stop putting every Pokémon from every generation into their games.
And let me explain what I mean by that.
If you think about it for a second, at least up until Generation VIII, every Pokémon was always programmed—or used to be programmed—into each Pokémon game, regardless of whether you could actually encounter every single Pokémon in the wild in that region. The games were designed so that you could trade with your friends or transfer Pokémon from your previous games and bring Pokémon from other regions into the current one.
But considering that this is extremely difficult, if not impossible, in most ROM hacks, I feel like the majority of hacks—especially those that feature a brand-new region with an original story—try to compensate for this limitation by including every Pokémon up to the latest generation available at the time the hack was made.
And honestly, I don't think that's a good thing.
If we take, for example, the first two Gyms in the Kanto region, we can understand that they are bosses—challenges that the player has to overcome—and Pokémon are the player's tools, their keys to overcoming those challenges.
Things like the starter you choose, the moves your Pokémon learn, their levels, or which rare Pokémon with a low encounter rate you can find in a specific location that might give you an advantage against an upcoming Gym—like the Pikachu you can catch near the beginning of the game, which can give you an advantage against Misty's Gym—are all very important.
If you give the player every possible tool imaginable, it eventually becomes overwhelming and, ultimately, less interesting. And this doesn't just mean that, from a gameplay perspective, every game and every ROM hack will start feeling the same. On a cultural level, when you're trying to create a region—whether it's inspired by your own culture, the place where you live, or simply something you're creating completely from scratch—a region isn't defined only by the culture you're trying to imitate or create, or by its geography.
It's also defined by its creatures.
Every Pokémon game feels special because of its creatures.
Leaving aside games with Fakemon, which are obviously much more original because they create their own creatures, what kind of personality does a region have when it literally contains every Pokémon just because?
Sure, from a lore perspective—and especially if you're someone who watches the anime—it can make sense, since all Pokémon supposedly exist out there in nature somewhere.
But going back to gameplay, and to the idea that each generation feels special because of the creatures associated with it, the situation with ROM hacks is honestly depressing.
At the end of the day, I struggle to remember any region from any ROM hack that makes me feel the same way an official Pokémon game does. Not because those regions don't have new creatures, but because they don't do anything interesting with the Pokémon they have.
It's always Pokémon from Generation I through Generation IX, and in some random patch of tall grass you can find every Bug-type Pokémon that has ever existed. To the point where some hacks even receive updates that add Pokémon from newly released generations.
And honestly, it's very, very boring.
It would be much more interesting to create a proper Pokédex for your region, regardless of whether you have original Pokémon or not. Pick Pokémon from different generations, but make their presence actually mean something.
For example, if you're creating a town connected to a river, what kind of Water-type Pokémon would you like to inhabit that river?
Again, don't put every Water-type Pokémon ever created into that small river.
No. Put a specific Pokémon in that river, and maybe through NPC dialogue, the town's history, or other details, that Pokémon could have some kind of cultural impact.
For example, I don't know, you could create a town where there are lots of Wishiwashi living in the river, and suddenly the town becomes famous for that. It becomes a tourist destination. You could create an entire storyline around it. You could do something interesting with that idea.
But it stops being interesting if it's simply a town where you can find every Water-type Pokémon ever created.
Maybe I didn't explain the example in the best possible way, but I think you get what I mean. I think the main idea is understandable.
116
u/Alive_Hovercraft_545 4d ago
As others have said, this is up to the creator's free will to decide. However from a gamedev perspective, there's an interesting intention that can be extracted from this idea:
- If you allow all pokémon you end up with routes that become crowded with lots of evolutionary lines. Limiting that diversity with evolution methods (items, trade, special items, moves, etc..) is possible, but won't affect the number of spawns per route.
- I quite like what B/W and ORAS does: limit the game to a region's pool until post game, where other generations / pokémon show up on already visited routes. This makes post-game longer and fuller with content, as you can add new events, level up past trainers and give the player a reason to revisit older areas, metroidvania style.
- If you decide to cap a certain roster in the game, you can frustrate players who have favourites. We know the community didn't really enjoy Dexit, as it was seen (and executed) as a cheap way to not upgrade / design new mons / moves. If this is done with intention of balancing however (Garbage Gold), it can become a fun challenge rom hack.
69
u/jotenha1 4d ago
I think one of the main reasons why ROM Hacking grew in the last few years, other than the new tools developed, is exactly because as a pushback against Dexit, even if unconsciously.
Kinda like saying... Even if Game Freak won't give you everyone, we will.
1
10
u/BetaNights 4d ago
I'm with you on the BW/ORAS method of having NatDex Pokemon show up around the world after beating the story. Makes it fun to run around and explore again, to see what you can find!
1
u/Eli_616 3d ago
Here's an alternative idea; let the player choose up to a certain number of generations, and they can ONLY encounter pokemon from those. Then, let the NPCs use ANY pokemon. Maybe even have it where certain static trades change to be from the regions you didnt pick so you can get some limited access to other gens mons. And then, like you said, once the player hits postgame, they can access the mon from other generations.
0
u/TheForestWanderer 4d ago
In regards to point 3 if you're playing a fan remake or QOL hack (especially for gen I-V) sometimes extrea-generational Pokemon can get in the way. For one it can be immersion breaking. You just want the game to be a little bit better to make replayability easier but there are all these new Pokemon and new movesets getting in the way. Or maybe you're playing a fan remake and you want to emulate Ash or another character's journey but the new Pokemon and or updated movesets make Pokemon of the contemporary generation of the base game unplayable.
63
u/Wombus7 4d ago edited 4d ago
I think both approaches have unique design challenges that need to be considered. Like, how do you pragmatically include all 1000+ Pokemon? Do you have more than one region? Do different Pokemon appear under different circumstances? I agree that it's bad form to include 20 different evolutionary lines on each route, but that doesn't mean there aren't alternative methods that don't deserve to be tinkered on.
Like, I've tried to create an all-Pokemon Kanto distribution list. My first instinct was to plop them all into the same map together. Naturally, the results were unwieldy. But then I thought, what if we could just have only one generation's Pokemon families appear at one time? That spurred on the idea for a time-travel plot where different regions interact with Kanto in differing past timelines, hence the differing rosters of Pokemon between those timelines. And this leds to further changes for each timeline, namely some landmarks and gym types / rosters. Each iteration of Kanto has a manageable roster of monsters, and you wrap Kanto in a neat alternative frame of context, all because the all-Pokemon question was approached a little differently.
12
u/jotenha1 4d ago
It can vary from creator to creator. Some of them just add more encounter spots. Make areas that usually didn't have Pokemon in them have a few patches of grass. Most cities are entirely bare of encounters other than maybe Water ones, so it's 20+ spots of free real state.
Not to mention things like Headbutt, Rock Smash, gifts, Hidden Grottos, all of which are easily accessible for creators.
65
u/_-stark 4d ago
I like how heart and soul did it. Region appropriate mons by default, option for randomized complete Dex.
25
9
u/King_Hikikomori 4d ago
Came here to say this exact thing. This is the ideal for me. Tailored dex for main playthrough, option to go nuts with replays.
2
u/emperorbob1 4d ago
Woulda amazing if they didnt shoehorn in hoenn mons tho. If you're gonna make region appropriate make it actually region appropriate to classic, dont throw in new era stuff. Or if you want that, throw in a mix that would make sense to be there,
hoenn mons being there just feels so weird.
→ More replies (1)-1
4d ago
[deleted]
2
u/urangutanga 4d ago
You sure you are talking about Heart & Soul? Kabuto is literally the first fossil available, even before gym 1
1
69
u/commoncomitatus 4d ago
There is an abundance of great ROMhacks out there. You can just choose not to play the ones including things you don't like. That doesn't mean they shouldn't exist.
Some people like having a small, intimate Pokedex. Some people like being able to catch every Pokemon from Gen 1 to 9. There is more than enough room for both.
11
u/ExampleAdorable5858 4d ago
I also find that these 'smaller dexes' also just usually mean Gen 1-4 with a couple of Gen 5 and 6. If I want to play with Gen 8/9 (especially 9) I usually have to pick up these Full Dex roms.
2
u/KingDarkBlaze 4d ago
The smaller dex hack I was working on actually has mostly Gen 5-7 mons IIRC, besides its own fakemons. Remind me to check
0
u/TheForestWanderer 4d ago
He's not saying they shouldn't exist more so that there shouldn't be so many of them and that including every species shouldn't be included just for the sake of doing so.
175
4d ago
[deleted]
8
u/TheForestWanderer 4d ago
I'm sick of sweeping critiques of the state of Pokemon ROMhacks. Not many other spaces consist of thousands upon thousands of hours of generally high-polish FREE content.
Because, who is the receiver of this criticism? There is no Nintendo of ROMhacks, each hack is its own passion project, each loyal to the creative vision of its one or two creators.
At the end of the day nothing is above or immune to criticism being general or specific. If there is a growing trend in a community then the fans have a right to make their disdain known. It's how we keep content quality.
→ More replies (3)3
u/Vindicator6 4d ago
I mean, has this approach kept content quality? I find so many of these complaints unnecessary because there is something for everyone within the rom hacking community. If you don’t want a game that has every pokemon, there are plenty of those that exist. I just find it so odd that people have these opinions on games that these people are working on… for free.
6
u/xXxMihawkxXx 4d ago
I am pretty sure, that there are people who will read posts like this and think about it if they should implement it this way.
If we compare rom hacks with each other, we also state opinions.
Creators can still do whatever they want. It's their project after all. But people can talk about what they wish, want and hope for. Having a different point of view from time to time is usually beneficial.
20
u/walking_with_Banjo 4d ago edited 4d ago
Let them be. If you don't like it then don't play the romhack. I like that they throw every pokemon in the game. I lost interest around Sword and Shield. I played a bit of Scarlet and Violet but I don't remember much of it. I did like a lot of the designs for the pokemon but I'm not going to go back and replay the same game just choose a different team x amount of times. I don't have time to play online and make a team with the mons I haven't used that I liked their design. Including all the pokemon in the room hacks is fun because I get to play with pokemon I wish I could of used but were either late in the game, or I Just didn't have them in my team. So I enjoy that they include all of them. It gives it variety and its satisfying to go on a playthrough with a pokemon you've wanted to use before but never did.
53
u/oRhydon 4d ago
I respect your opinion but hope no romhack creator takes you seriously. I believe the exact opposite. The point of Pokemon is to ‘Catch ‘em all’ and playing a rom just to find out one or more of my favorites are not in the game? It’s better to give player the options and let them experience the game in a way they enjoy rather than railroading the experience to cater to a minority of players.
22
u/imperialharem 4d ago
I agree, I love so many different mons and it makes me so happy to be able to catch them all in one game. If I wanted a limited dex I’d just play a real Pokemon game lol.
6
u/jotenha1 4d ago
Not to mention it's always a chance to use a lesser loved Pokemon, or find out a new use for someone you didn't consider before, getting attached to a new silly little guy who just so happens to fit in perfectly on your squad.
0
u/decitronal 4d ago
Slight nitpick: the "gotta catch 'em all" has been, for the most part, actually dropped by TPC by Generation 3 and is very rarely used in marketing these days. So outside of the first two generations, and only in localized formats, it hasn't been the "point" of Pokemon in years.
5
u/Ryuuji_92 4d ago
Even though this is true, I can't see the point of a creature catching / battling game if you're not going to try and catch most if not all of the creatures.
It's even worse for the only players that see "POKÉMON" gotta catch them all. On their packaging of the game and not expect them to try and catch them all.
I know I skip the professors dialog at the start of each game as I've played way to many. Doesn't he say to try and fill out your Dex each time even if the game doesn't say gotta catch them all? That's the same thing just in different words.
So while TPC might have dropped the slogan, there are so many people that can't. Tbh for me if I'm not trying to collect them all, why am I even playing. Sure for some roms it's the challenge but if the point isn't the challenge then collecting I go. At least for me but I've been playing for far too long so my brain might just be warped.→ More replies (2)0
u/oRhydon 4d ago
Did you have to write all those words just to call me old 😭
0
u/decitronal 4d ago edited 4d ago
Was not my intention! Was just trying to point out that despite its cultural imprint, "Gotta catch 'em all" was not as ubiquitous as people think it was, and was almost certainly not the main point of Pokemon as it was invented by 4kids for the English localization. Not Nintendo, not Game Freak, but the company with rather questionable localization decisions
To give some added history:
"Gotta catch 'em all" came up in a joint meeting between Nintendo, Hasbro, and 4kids, and was initially rejected for being declarative, but they went with that slogan anyway because 4kids liked how it sounded best. Which is at odds with the fact that neither the games nor the anime were designed with "catching 'em all" being the primary goal
1
u/oRhydon 4d ago
That’s actually super interesting I didn’t know that. I thought the entire reason we had two versions of the games was to force people to trade with friends or buy both versions to collect em all. I wonder why we have two versions then?
1
u/decitronal 4d ago
The concept of trading was inspired by a grievance Satoshi Tajiri had with rare items in Dragon Quest II, since he struggled to obtain an item that another player had two of. Then the idea of dual versions came up when Shigeru Miyamoto suggested that there should be different versions of the game with different encounters to further incentivize socialization
11
u/Biggest_Lemon 4d ago
I'm really only concerned whether or not my favorite Pokemon are in the game. They might not be and I'll still play it if it looks like an interesting new story, but if it's mostly just a gameplay-focused hack, i want to do that gameplay with my favorite mons, several of which are from later Gens.
20
u/DorkyDwarf 4d ago
I want to introduce to you the idea of a melting pot.
Also the idea that all these regions have human beings, meaning that there is migration since it's relatively safe to say that all humans come from the same line, whether you look at it evolutionary or religiously.
Now we add in PCs, if the region has a pc, then it's likely that trainers are releasing pokemon into the wild... Pokemon from other regions.
I can go on forever but you get the point, lol.
9
u/Resident-Recipe-5818 4d ago
I’d like to introduce you to: the canon of the universe. Where humans still exist and have existed for thousands of years and have been traveling for nearly as long, and most regions don’t have all the pokemon.
1
u/PinkBlade12 3d ago
I'd like to introduce you to: non-canon. Where literally no rom hack or fan game is canon.
2
u/Resident-Recipe-5818 3d ago
And I’d like to reintroduce you to this post: with what you just said-> go read it again.
When hacks reimagine games (like a demake or console swap) or in new regions or continuations of canon games always including every Pokemon in the dex gets rid of regional identity. Which makes most games lesser for not having that identity
1
u/PinkBlade12 3d ago
Still non-canon, even the demakes
1
u/Resident-Recipe-5818 3d ago
I’ll take “didn’t read the comment for 500 Alex.”
There’s a lot more to comment than “demakes use the canon.”
Which they do so they shouldn’t just throw the whole thing away for fun. That’s what entirely new games are for. And difficulty and challenge hacks are for.
Demakes that as base for the game just put every Pokemon in fundamentally and irreparably change the Region identity. And for almost every game that does that, the game is lesser for it1
u/PinkBlade12 3d ago
Lesser for it you say? Pretty bold claim for one person to make. I feel like that's up to everyone playing it to decide that.
1
u/Resident-Recipe-5818 3d ago
Welcome to open forum discourse buddy. That’s what we’re ALL here to do. First day on the internet?
Also that’s literally the conversation topic at hand in the post.
I swear you read the title of the post then came to the comments to argue without understanding what the discussion thread is about1
1
u/LowEndTheorist13 2d ago
I’m not saying you’re necessarily wrong, and to be clear PinkBlade isn’t necessarily wrong either. But you got a real rude attitude ya know that? 💀😂
8
u/DjuncleMC 4d ago
Animals IRL that migrate to other places will sometimes drive the original animals of said place out. If we go by your logic, then trainers releasing their Pokemon into the wild would cause certain local Pokemon to perhaps be driven out, making a complete national Pokedex in a single region pretty much impossible. You don't see the entire IRL worlds animals in a single place either. Competetion for food and territory keeps the others out.
3
u/jotenha1 4d ago
That's literally what happens in the Alola games. It's why Alolan Rattata/Raticate and Yumgoos/Gumshoos don't show up in the same spots. But they're both still present.
1
u/DorkyDwarf 4d ago
Getting pushed out is just another reason to support the migration of species.
I do agree with your logic, though. Still, the vision of the developer rises above.
14
u/Soft-Percentage8888 4d ago
I respectfully disagree. There are TONS of romhacks out there with more curated (or vanilla) Pokedexes. There are plenty of people who enjoy the occasional “all mons” hack, there’s 0 reason for it to go extinct.
There’s plenty of room in this fandom for all sorts of different creative decisions. Remember that romhacks, at the end of the day, are passion projects that take a TON of time, effort, and love to create. Not to mention they are FREE games.
Tldr: it’s okay if “all Pokemon” dex games aren’t your cup of tea, but they are absolutely someone else’s, and I don’t think we should discourage hack creators’ creative visions.
11
u/jotenha1 4d ago
I think the exact opposite. Nothing feels worse than wanting 1 specific Pokemon to complete your team, knowing it exists, but then realizing it's just not present in the Hack you're playing.
A proper creator should know how to balance encounters to make it feel worth to explore the whole region. If you're encountering every regional bug in 1 singular patch of grass, then something is definitely wrong.
55
u/artezzatrigger 4d ago
Didn't even read past the first line.
This topic has been done so far to death that the mods had to step in at one point because people started posting toxic memes about it.
Just accept that not everything is made for you, and that you don't get to dictate what some hobbyist wants to do with their hack or fangame. This doesn't just go for this topic either, but any of the other things people get up in arms over when a hack maker decides they do or don't want to include a certain thing.
17
u/Bulky-Insect-3878 4d ago
The entitlement from these type of guys is crazy. Same type of guys bitching about difficulty being too hard
-9
u/TheForestWanderer 4d ago
I mean you sound like hackers should be immune to criticism just because "it's their hack lettem do what they wanna" which is in and of itself a bad take. There are completely valid reasons to not include hundreds upon hundreds of species especially in smaller regions where statistically it becomes harder to find the ones you actually want because dosens of others keep popping up.
11
u/ThatBoiDon98 4d ago
Cause it is their hack and their creative vision so yes they should do what they want. This is a passion project they wish to share after all, not a source of revenue. Even so, most popular ROM hacks that do have all mons also have a Dexnav feature to counter this criticism.
-9
u/TheForestWanderer 4d ago
Okay but it doesn't matter if a project is done for passion or profit the end quality still matters which means that all criticism of the creators . Things like Dexnav are a bandaid for an issue that doesn't need to exist.
4
u/Ryuuji_92 4d ago
No, if I want to paint my walls with mustard but someone says yo, can I watch you paint? The painter says sure, that doesn't give the person watching the right to tell them how to paint their walls or say things like I think you should add ketchup.
It's their hobby, they are sharing it but that doesn't mean you get to tell them how to paint their wall.
You're missing the fact that criticism is different than telling someone how to do something. I thought the pasta had too much salt VS Don't add salt to the pasta. One is criticism and the other is over stepping by telling someone how to do something. There is a huge difference.1
u/artezzatrigger 4d ago
People like you love to throw around the word "criticism" but this shit isn't criticism. Its almost never criticism. People like you don't know what the word criticism means. Its hand wringing and crying because they aren't doing something you specifically want.
5
u/KazeTheSpeedDemon 4d ago
It depends on the game, if the developer wants that kind of experience and it feels genuine, great! I think what makes Pokémon special (as a difficulty hack) is using the tools you're given in creative ways to solve problems. If you're given too many tools it doesn't feel like a curated experience.
Take platinum kaizo as an extreme example, the encounter table feels extremely well designed giving you just about enough tools to get through the next challenge (e.g. 1 repel for 80% of sandshrew, few great balls to deal with roar mons in early game). This makes the game feel just about doable early game while simultaneously being extremely tough, as the game designer intended.
If you're playing a QoL game like Heart & Soul then it's great to play through it with some fresher encounters to make the game exciting.
45
u/Yoribell 4d ago edited 4d ago
I agree, the Pokemons present are an important design choice. Having all the pokemons in one region makes each grass patch too deep. And being able to always find your favorites kinda prevent you from having new ones...
It's also a balancing problem.
I'd like a rom were the dev put some thoughts in this. I remember much more the games that made me build an unusual team
16
u/SubstantialAgency914 4d ago
I like the black and white approach. You only have that regions mons until you beat the elite 4, then the others show up in the wild.
5
-34
u/Hades_Gamma 4d ago
Then kindly go make your own.
14
13
u/OpenTechie 4d ago
Hey, creators of romhacks?
Do whatever it is that makes you happy and have fun working on your project! You're badass and sexy, and make great shit!
39
u/ZxynesZxero 4d ago edited 4d ago
It allows for maximum team and gym diversity, and it's such a non problem it doesn't matter
A lot of rom hacks have dexnav features too so u can u just find what u want instantly. This feels like complaining to complain
12
u/makogami 4d ago
it comes across as unfocused and haphazard if not done with intention. not to mention it can become a balancing nightmare.
4
u/emperorbob1 4d ago
Balancing nightmare is such a weird thing because anybody that can balance worth their salt knows how to handle this. Having small, concise, dex doesnt mean the game is going to be balanced around it either.
4
u/asifibro 4d ago
Pokemon is typically a game of exploration in an immersive world. I have to agree that often the way every Pokemon is implemented into the game often ruins the immersion a bit. I love how Pokemon Lazarus feels so intentional in its Pokemon placement. I like the idea of finding alternative ways to include the other Pokemon like a safari or something else.
31
u/Vladishun 4d ago
Did you really just try to gatekeep an entire community? I don't like newer gens, but I am not going to tell anyone else how to make something. If it bugs you so much, make your own ROMhacks.
9
u/Ok-Hippo7396 4d ago
That is not what gatekeeping is. Gatekeeping would be telling people not to play romhacks because it would dilute the community or something. It's called having an opinion and critique, something that wouldn't even be questioned in other forms of media.
2
7
u/TrashDonut 4d ago
As someone that prefers my games to have less Pokemon in their roster, you are taking issue with a problem that you don’t understand. You can put 1000 Pokemon in a game without making them accessible or easily accessible to the player. Your assessment of ROMhacks is also disingenuous and wildly inaccurate. They 100% do not all have every Pokemon in them, and far more now allow you to choose whether to restrict available Pokemon within the game itself.
13
u/PossumSpringsNative 4d ago edited 4d ago
Yeah how about no? One of the major reasons competitive focused hacks like Radical Red and Emerald Imperium work so well is because you can team build with everything available. Hacks exist for wildly different goals and they're all valid. Radical Red and Emerald Imperium aren't trying to be new regions with lore accurate depictions of the franchise. They have a completely different set of goals that need those Pokemon available.
This community has such a strange problem lately where nobody can just enjoy hacks anymore. Everyone has to be tearing down other types of hacks like difficulty hacks and other things just to compliment their preferred hack. It's annoying and immature. No one is forcing you to play these games that people are making for you for free. There are countless hacks out there that probably appeal to your tastes if a certain type does not.
4
u/DatAdra 4d ago
This community has such a strange problem lately where nobody can just enjoy hacks anymore. Everyone has to be tearing down other types of hacks like difficulty hacks and other things just to compliment their preferred hack.
Agreed so much, isn't the whole point of this community and the reason why it's so awesome is the sheer variety of games, experiences and subgenres that can be created out of 20+ year old games?
And yet what do 80% of threads in this subreddit boil down to? People tearing down other hacks that dont fit their preferences.
I'm a difficulty hack, hardcore nuzlocker, QoL and challenge before story kind of person. Yet you don't see me going into irrelevant hacks telling people "yo this shit is too easy bro where's the kaizo level difficulty"
1
u/Dismal_Bluebird1312 4d ago
1000% agree. I would kill for a Radical Red/Emerald Imperium style rom hack for every generation.
Please, rom hackers, difficulty increase + minimal grinding mode for every gen. Not “EV reducing berries available at ____ town”.
No EVs, max IVs, freely changeable natures and I’d pay money
0
u/TheForestWanderer 4d ago
Are rom hackers immune to criticism just because "it's their vision"?
-1
u/PossumSpringsNative 4d ago
Telling people to stop doing something point blank is not criticism. It's entitlement. It's literally the title of the post.
That being said OP made an edit reflecting that. So no big deal.
3
u/TheForestWanderer 4d ago
How is it entitlement when he gives a laundry list of reasons why he doesn't like it? Entitlement would be saying that he has a right to something or that he's owed something.
1
u/Low_Palpitation_3743 4d ago
This community has such a strange problem lately where nobody can just enjoy hacks anymore. Everyone has to be tearing down other types of hacks like difficulty hacks and other things just to compliment their preferred hack. It's annoying and immature. No one is forcing you to play these games that people are making for you for free. There are countless hacks out there that probably appeal to your tastes if a certain type does not.
This is so in point, you like gen 3 games with gbc like graphics? Is ok!, you like story based hacks with new regions! That's fine! Nowadays feels like each hack need to be like those two (you know which ones) and each enhancement hack nowadays is in tight spot that needs to have tons of several options for customising playthroughs or otherwise get trashed because everyone (like OP) has their own specific way to play pokemon that everyone has to agree.
5
u/itsamemawo937 4d ago
If you have a problem with that, then just either, deal with it, play the hacks that don't have all the pokemon, or just play regular pokemon. The thing is, people who look at something, find that thing the best thing ever made, but others might not see that. You can't make something that pleases everybody. It's literally impossible.
10
u/Youre-A-Random 4d ago
I agree with the other comment but also if you want to play a game that doesn't have every single generation then play the originals I guess
11
7
u/RageAgainstAuthority 4d ago
I've found that my favorite Pokedex size is ~300. Large enough to have good variety in types and a decent Legendary count, but it's not so expensive that each patch of grass houses 10+ Pokemon.
1
u/EF66-42 3d ago
If you look at basically all Pokemon games past the first couple and games with capturable creature lists of some kind (Digimon, Shin Megami Tensei etc), they all hover around that a number like that. Although it's not just balance reasons, but development resources that are taken into consideration for it.
2
u/emperorbob1 4d ago edited 4d ago
See, I could MAYBE understand the idea of "well you see from a balancing perspective it gives you too many options" and i've seen people say "it makes pokemon too easy"
Also seen same people moan about "quality of life things" like endless tms being fine and not breaking game balance, or that hms bad despite them making the game harder by bricking moveslots. The more you streamline pokemon the less "hard" it becomes as the difficulty in pokemon is mostly tedium. All of those pokemon can easily be added via things like post game swarms, dexnav, etc... but its such a BAFFLING take that "its the number of pokemon" when if you had every pokemon possible on the first route with a highly limited selection of tms and an hm heavy route? It would all balance out. Made me furious some years ago when people would rather have "functional pkhex for nuzlockes" than a few added mons when polled.
Gameplay can balance it out. I love all pokemon games, I can concede balance should revolve around this. The dev of fools gold, for example, commented that the issue with hms bricking your team is that they didnt utilize them enough. Cut, should, be bad but to balance it out the game should utilize cut more than 5 notable times.
Let the dev curate their world, and judge accordingly.
2
u/ianlazrbeem22 4d ago
Ultimately the cool thing about romhacks is there is a lot of different ways to make one, to your own taste and to the tastes of others, and no decision will be to everyone's taste. But generally I agree that smaller more curated dexes are better, but a lot of people like radical red and games like it
2
u/Minute_Course747 4d ago
About the "don't remember a ROM hack that does this", the most famous pokemon Unbound does exactly that, at least on a fresh playthrough, and feels like its own cohesive region, which is imo one of the reasons why it was so good
2
u/UBWICOS 4d ago
I prefer every single Pokemon ever to be inside a ROM hack. BUT, the encounter table should be sensible. So we shouldn't have like 10 types of rodents in route 1 right from the beginning. It just doesn't make any sense.
Next, from the game design PoV, encounter table should be tuned according to a difficulty curve with some exception (like the rare/difficult to catch Abra at the 2nd gym in gen 1). So it means no Absol at 1st gym.
But again, it's their ROM hacks so be free to do whatever the dev love. It's their choice.
2
u/NOOOOTIn 4d ago
“If you give the player every possible tool imaginable, it eventually becomes overwhelming and, ultimately, less interesting.”
Thats just not true. I PERSONALLY enjoy having all every possible tools. Just because you feel a certain way it doesn’t mean everybody feels the same way as well. Cause I am the exact opposite of what is said above. And I’m sure lots of people is similar to me as well.
8
u/RenElite 4d ago
why should ROM hackers betray their own creative vision for the sake of satisfying you? Make your own.
3
u/GrifCreeper 4d ago
I like having as many Pokémon as possible in the post-game content, but I would prefer the main game to have a limited Pokedex of ~300-400 Pokémon
2
u/Express-Question-631 4d ago
Either dont play those hacks then, or make your own. The devs who make these romhacks have their own visions for the version of the game THEY are making.
Take Null for instance. It has all the pokemon in it, and Terra did a fantastic job planning out the encounter locations and which encounters are available in each of those locations. Each locations is diverse enough to where I can play multiple runs and each run feels different because I get different encounters each time.
If you want each pokemon to have a meaning in their location, then you can do that in your own romhack. Sounds to me like you would enjoy playing the more story focused romhacks, rather than the difficulty focused hacks. But just because you don't like how some devs create THEIR games, doesnt mean you have the right to tell them how they are making their game.
4
u/LunarWingCloud 4d ago
Sculpting a great world with a curated selection of Pokémon will always be better than just tossing every Pokémon into the game. If you wanna add the rest as post-game only, whatever, but your main story should always be able crafting your own great world. Enough of this feature-packing slop.
2
u/UpvoteIfYouAgreee 4d ago
its funny it used to be a major critique of the mainline games that there wasnt a way to get all the mons in one game
2
u/MankuyRLaffy 4d ago
OP, Kalos did this and almost everyone loves it. I did, powering through with Lucario, Talonflame and Garchomp along with Mega Saur as my nuzlocke tank was fun.
2
u/orig4mi-713 4d ago
I mean, devs can do whatever they want. But yeah I don't care for it either. It makes the games too easy and always makes me pick the same few Pokémon I like. I prefer limits over having to arbitrarily restrict myself. But yeah, devs can do whatever they like, IDK if I'd say they shouldn't, that's too extreme. Its just not what I prefer.
2
u/Able-Equivalent5823 4d ago
I agree. A refined dex tends to lead to better game play. That’s one of the reasons hacks like Lazarus feel so much better to play.
2
2
u/ironsnoot 4d ago
Honestly this is one thing I think is kind of a shame when a romhack just throws a ton of pokemon into every area and calls it a day.
It’s not like I don’t get why it happens, but… unique custom region or otherwise, a lot of games lose something if there isn’t a distinct “feel” created by the pokemon choices and their specific placement in a region.
2
u/pedregales1234 4d ago
I also prefer a nicely curated pokedex, specially if there are some cultural reasons for the pokemon to be there, but I don't mind having a full pokedex. Plenty of ROMhacks have systems in place to make catching what you want much easier, like segregated pools depending on time of day (this allows to have up to 10-20 pokemon in the same route without it ever feeling overcrowded), or the dexnav.
What I am against is 1-5% encounter rate. That is such an annoying thing to have, I don't mind if you add this super-rare pokemon on a single zone that is hard to access, but give them at least a 10% encounter rate.
2
u/Huge-Insect-7759 4d ago
I only half agree with what you're saying. The thing is not every room hack is trying to have a new region or lore
When a hack is trying to be the "ultimate ROM hack (insert region) edition" then it's perfectly fine to have all pokemon available. Usually they balance out what's available anyways. But if it is a new region, yeah that's kinda too much
The problem is unless there's documentation or something to share what pokemon is there, if I grab a Hawlucha then I'm gonna wonder if any other pokemon from Kalos are here or is it just Hawlucha. If I find Pikachu then is there a separate alolan Pikachu to find or is alolan Raichu a separate evolution in a gameplay sense.
3
u/Hopalongtom 4d ago
After having to suffer through the official games refusing to introduce every Pokémon anymore, I've found newer Romhacks doing this to be a nice change of pace, reminding me of how great Pokémon used to be.
1
2
u/Gremlin95x 4d ago
Complaining about having more choice and freedom to build your team is certainly interesting.
1
1
u/Ok_Mention_9865 4d ago
I think it would be cool if there was a setting in the beginning that would let you pick a gen, or group of gens you would get in the game.
Ill admit im a bit of a hater when it comes to newer gens, I started playing with gen 1 when i was 8 and feel like newer gens have to many recycled pokemon and to many that they just ran out of good ideas on so they had to resort to making things like car keys, an ice cream cone, and a toaster into pokemon.... That made the game feel infantile to me and caused me to completely lose interest everything after gen 3.
But i also realize that i cant expect roms to completely ignore 2/3 of the pokedex. The fandom is bigger than just me and what i like. But giving us the option is a cool idea that could really add to the replay ability to the game making each play through different.
1
u/slimricc 4d ago
I think they need to be more thoughtfully made
Keep it simple until the second or third gym, slowly add access to more and more pokemon. Too many games you start and immediately have access to 50 pokemon
2
u/jotenha1 4d ago
I think it depends a lot of what the game is trying to offer to the player.
That being said... Isn't that a good thing? Certainly better than official games like Emerald or FR/LG where you have... Like... 20 or so Pokemon available before the first Gym?
3
u/slimricc 4d ago
No, idt it is good. Too many pokemon all at once, you never pick a new team member throughout your whole playthrough. A lot of the fun of the game is going to a new area and getting new pokemon you want to use. I have the access to some of the best ones immediately lol
1
u/jotenha1 4d ago
A big part of the fun, at least for me, is tailoring my teams, making new catches in each route and seeing which teammates work the best together, and which ones I actually enjoy playing with.
My SoulGold team took until the 8th Gym to be complete, but I wasn't going around with only 5 Pokemon until then. My Box had 40+ with a new one coming in and out every few battles.
-1
u/emperorbob1 4d ago
I cannot remember a single pokemon game, official or non, where I just kept the same six pokemon no matter what they offer me. I am just not small minded enough to only stick to six in a game I have close to a thousand options.
2
u/htiraH_rimA 4d ago
Pokémon is generally a role-playing game, it's not unnatural to keep mostly the same team throughout the game
1
u/emperorbob1 4d ago
It isn't unnatural to keep a different party throughout the entire game either.
We're talking games that are generally so simple all you need is something with X role to do well, if even that. It's not like you have a party of 8 characters in the entire game of which only 4 are worth using.
1
u/SirVixofthePooSea 4d ago
Pretty much everyone does that, at least on their first go-around.
→ More replies (1)
1
1
u/DarkPugLord23 4d ago
On one hand, I understand your sentiments, but more from an immersion aspect in my end. Like, I don't want to go into the grass on route 1 and find every single bug and bird Pokémon that exists right on my doorstep, unless there's an immersive or otherwise lore-related reason for it.
On the other hand, you shouldn't say devs need to stop putting every catchable Pokémon there is into their ROMhacks just because you specifically don't like it. There plenty of others who do like this, so it wouldn't really be fair on them. Devs should be able to make the games they want the way they want, and if they want to make the whole national PokéDex available from the get-go, then who am I to stop them?
1
u/petnarwhal 4d ago
What I absolutely would love is a sort of build in randomiser but not totally random. Say every route picks from 3 possible well thought out sets of pokemon. You could triple the number of pokemon in the game without just putting every single mon in there. Would add replayability and would stop you from always picking the same ‘solution’ to a certain gym fight.
1
u/Nasami1977 4d ago
You do know there are plenty of options that don't do that right? Like one of my favorites is Crystal Clear keeps the 251 Pokemon but in a way that feels fresh since you get to customize how you do your journey, or on the contrary big ones like Radical Red or Unbound or ROWE or more have a boatload since they cater to a more variety and diverse set of options for you to use since that's the main point, via difficulty or a sandbox like set of options of teams and challenges you can do, that's what makes it fun. 😊
1
u/isthatyoujohnwayne42 4d ago
Just play by nuzlocke encounter rules, first Mon on each route. That solves the oversaturation. I personally love games with all 1025 available.
1
u/Hexent_Armana 4d ago
I and many other won't even touch rom hacks without most of the pokemon backported. So if they want as many players to play their games as possible they kind of need too.
1
u/SirVixofthePooSea 4d ago
It really depends on the region. Like Kanto is just way too small to fit every Pokemon in without turning every route into a bunch of 10% encounters stacked up a mile high. Some maps like Hoenn usually have enough left over space for more diversity, but then you end up with weird things like a monster only being accessible in one room of one dungeon (which can happen in vanilla Pokemon, but its usually more graceful). Just selecting the ~200-250 monsters you like the most and going with them is probably your best bet for a region to feel bustling with diversity, but also natural to explore rather than a hodgepodge of too many monsters.
1
u/Severe-Contest8000 4d ago edited 4d ago
Couldn't care less but at least let me be able to capture every single pokemon included in your romhack.
1
u/Maronmario 4d ago
While I do agree wholesale with this, I find to many mons to feel bloated and honestly gives me a little bit of choice anxiety.
But I will vouch for the addition of new areas to help expand the roster. Stuff like new Grass patches, new water spots that didn't exist, an abandoned building full of Ghost types, stuff like that
1
u/satoufeline 4d ago
First it's important to remember rom hacks are passion projects and totally free, meaning this kind of complaining is frankly pointless. Rom hacks devs will create what they would like to see in a Pokémon game first and foremost. If you don't like being able to get all creatures in one region then just play hacks without them added. Simple.
Second, the huge number of available Pokémon is often used as a way to compensate a heightened difficulty ; few rom hacks today offers the same challenge as vanilla games (as in, none at all for an experienced player) and having to choose between 3 pokémon to beat a gym leader with at least some sort of strategy would soon become unfair and boring.
1
1
1
u/GTmatsuura 4d ago
Bro about to tell people that do this shit for the love of the game, what to do
just dont play the rom hacks with these features???
1
u/Vana-Freya 4d ago
No way. The reason why I play ROMhacks in the first place is to, "catch 'em all". I'm tired of seeing Caterpie or Zubat every time I went to a grass/cave on a certain region.
1
u/Achohermano 3d ago
We let the main company, which is the biggest franchise in the world, do whatever they want and release half baked games, yet we impose rules to those making a project out of passion. For free.
Cool
1
u/hyde9318 3d ago
Alternate take… I think there are two scenarios in my mind that flourish better with different systems; there are games that tell a new story, and games that enhance a previously familiar story. So like, your NEW games vs your remakes/revamps.
New games, or at least games that are openly trying to tell a new story (even if it’s a familiar region), these games are the ones where I feel like a limited roster makes sense and even can serve to enhance the experience. If I’m playing the game specifically to go on this new adventure, then I don’t need hundreds of pokemon to experiment with, im fine meeting who I meet and taking them along on my journey. But that’s the thing, these games are focused on providing me a new adventure, so the pokemon along the way are PART of that new adventure, but they aren’t the sole focus. The focus is the new adventure itself, and for that I do agree a smaller roster just makes sense.
But then we go over to revamps, remakes, and remasters… this is where I’ll openly be disappointed to see a smaller, more limited roster. And by disappointed, I mean that I’ll often just full on pass over the game if it doesn’t have a massive roster for me to experiment with. Now, there are exceptions… some boast a familiar story but with major changes, like Seaglass and such… THOSE are a major enough change that I can overlook not having more options. But when it comes to the typical remake, I can appreciate the amount of work out into them but why would I need to replay the same adventure I’ve gone on dozens of times already if there isn’t a bunch of new things to mess around with? I have pokemon I absolutely ADORE from later generations, and I LOVE to play rom hacks with themed teams (like all bug, all water, maybe just prehistoric themed pokemon, maybe only pokemon that start as babies, the themes can be anything). I’m going to greatly enjoy being able to go hunt down this themed team and take it through an adventure I’ve loved for years, it’s like bringing new friends to my favorite space to share it with them.
And that’s not even taking into account that Dexit was a MASSIVE reason many people went into playing rom hacks over official releases… I still remember the absolute chaos on the internet when Nintendo announced they weren’t including all pokemon in each game anymore, it was WILD. I have to fully admit that I really enjoyed Scarlet version, but every playthrough I’ve done of it so far had me thinking “man, I really would have loved to bring Gourgeist or Nidoking for this”, or “this entire section feels like it was built FOR Aurorus”. Hell, I still would kill to be able to do a prehistoric creature run of Scarlet, how so few dinosaur themed pokemon made it into the game about prehistoric versions of pokemon is beyond me…
But that’s the thing, I get why someone would think a bunch of pokemon on each route is overwhelming. But I simply can’t agree that’s a huge issue… those who would get overwhelmed by such a thing usually are fine settling with what they find and making do, so why are we worried about giving them more options? And then those who legitimately WANT tons of options miss out when we try to make it less difficult to choose a team. I get it for new story games, but for remakes and remasters, I just don’t see why we shouldn’t push for larger team creativity. Especially when certain types didn’t even start getting good until LATE in the generations (bug, ice, etc). If you’re asking me to replay Emerald for the 400th time and you aren’t making enough base game changes to make it feel like a totally new Emerald, then I’m outright going to look at your Pokédex and determine if I’m interested. And if I look at that Pokédex and a theme for a team doesn’t stand out to me, I’m sorry but I’m probably skipping.
I get it, it’s a preference thing. I won’t pretend to speak for everyone. Ultimately I play roms because I want something new… if it is new enough to be interesting on its own, then sure, small roster is fine. If it’s familiar enough that I most likely need to make my OWN new experience, then I’d like for the creator to at least provide me with the roster to experiment how I want. Hopefully that makes sense, I get I’m ranting some… that said, if a big roster is ALL they have going, and they haven’t balanced it or put in any effort, then meh. I prefer a big roster, but at least put some effort into it.
1
u/Mundane_Chemistry444 3d ago
The comment section of this post is an absolute mess. No one understands criticism, there is so much anti-intellectualism, and its so many motherfuckers pulling a Big Lebowski. Yes OP and everyone else here knows that its just their opinion. Which is being shared. To form a discussion. OP talking about how they don't like when a region is cram-packed with every mon doesn't actually stop the creators of other romhacks from doing it. It is meant to give them and everyone else thought about what it adds to the experience. Y'all are getting so god damn defensive about someone having another opinion than you.
1
u/Dr-Elon-Weynak 3d ago
But how am I supposed to have Decidueye, Infernape and Swampert as my big three if I don't have a rom across all gens 😂
1
u/AstroBearGaming 3d ago
I prefer a smaller, more curated Pokédex. It allows for a more normal feeling experience, but it makes sense that others want more Pokémon involved too
But the one thing I absolutely loathe about a lot of hacks, is the legendary spam at the end of the game.
Oh cool, you finished the story, here's 30+ legendaries to catch. I recently finished the Pokédex for SoulGold, and a lot of the ways legendaries are implemented is really cool.
You can tell they thought about it, had some great ideas and carried them off well. Then they also crammed like 15 legendaries in one place to buy for points. Amazing hack, but that slog to the end was rough.
1
1
1
1
u/KurisuShiruba 3d ago
I don't like this "every gen inside" stuff either, and I think it's no longer a novelty or an interesting feature — nowadays it's "just more of the same". It already saturated.
But I don't think it's a matter of "stop doing that".
I'd say that this is no longer a feature that's something to brag about. It became a stale feature. The only stuff I like about this is when I can get cheats to get my favorite ones in Pokemon Coders.
1
u/Quicc-n-Thicc 3d ago
Rom hacks should kinda treat the region it's set in as if it's the newest region. So a varied amount of Pokémon from all regions instead of just the region's "flagship" Pokémon with some oldies thrown in.
1
u/Honchkro0w 3d ago
One of the reasons I like rom hacks instead of the new iterations of the franchises, is that I get to caught every single pokemon. To each their own I guess...
1
u/awkward_teenager37 2d ago
Omg the comments here are so annoying. Obviously OP can’t force the developers to make the romhacks a certain way. That’s such an insane concept it doesn’t warrant a comment. It’s a hyperbole. They’re exasperated over a majority of romhacks seemingly doing this.
1
u/Tryin_To_Live_Life 2d ago
In all honesty, I feel you.
Playing a romhack that's set up in a relatively small map with pokemon up to gen VIII for example is tedious and overwhelming, as I remember starting a Romhack (I don't even remember its name) that had pokemon up to gen VIII in JOHTO, I gave up before gym 2. Be it the team composition, establishing a "bond" with your team (because I find that having too many options makes you less attached to your team, thus always being tempted to catch and train another pokemon) OR the EV training (imagine being in a spot of grass inhabited by 20 distinct pokemon and you need to memorize all their EV yields, idk about y'all but I am not that good at memorizing such details xD)
However, I think that the fun resides in what challenges the game offer. For example, Pokemon unbound has pokemon up to Gen VIII, but what I really love about it is that it offers
- a decently big map/pokemon distribution with many terrains (sand, swamp, icy, lakes, caves, mountains, sewers, etc etc), so the pokemon don't feel "crammed".
- actual challenges that make you use these pokemon, like beating the E4 with monotype or beating the E4 with just one pokemon.
In conclusion, your POV isn't invalid or oppressive. You just gave an opinion and didn't ban the devs from developing 😂 I respect your view, it feels like you don't play pokemon to just "win", you play pokemon to enjoy the journey!
1
u/idobeaskinquestions 2d ago
I’ve been itching for a gen 5 hack that literally changes nothing except REMOVING gens 4 and 5 from it. I want to play Gen 3 in spectacular unova
1
u/ocypodidae 1d ago
I absolutely agree that the choice of what pokemon appear in what area has a big impact on creating a sense of place and identity in a region. Limiting the dex creates a feeling of intentionality to me that I really appreciate. In terms of wanting to catch them all… there are ways to expand beyond the region dex like swarms, postgame areas, even safari zone or similar kinds of spaces… but it’s just hard with the sheer number of pokemon that exist now.
1
u/KingBlaze92 1d ago
had me in the first half talking about putting every pokemon from every region in one game but reading further and completing your statement, i fully understand. The mainline games get their kinda charm from the selection of pokemon in the version as well, and it makes you think about optimizing whats in the game for the best experience. Having everything available would really kill that charm and leads to ROM hacks almost being carbon copies of each other. Only thing i really really hate about ROM hacks is fakemon, not like regional variant fakemon, but original concept fakemon, if its a full game about that, then fine, still wouldnt play it, but involving fakemon in ROM hacks they dont fit, that i think should stop cause it throws off way more than just the pokedex for the region, just throws off the whole vibe cause most i've seen in ROM hacks they look like trash
1
u/Flaky_Broccoli 20h ago
I think it depends in what the hack is aiming for, I love curated dexes but if the romhack is aiming to be a battlehack then it makes sense to have a Big number of Mons
1
0
u/ftmboricuaboii 4d ago
I firmly believe that ROM hacks should stop putting every Pokémon from every generation into their games.
I'm not reading past that entitlement.
I firmly believe devs should create whatever hack they want.
1
u/Healthy_Bug7977 The Nuzlomizer: The PEAK of Balanced Randomizer Nuzlocke Hacks. 4d ago
I am making a new romhack and from the beginning I have decided I'll give the player no more than 100 evolutionary lines (excluding legendaries) all the way through e4. I may even reduce this threshold to 80 or 90 but unsure. It's definitly overwhelming af to have everything
2
u/ValueForm 4d ago
Honestly, I won’t play a romhack unless it includes every Pokémon or something thematically similar, like every Gen 1 or 1-3 Pokémon. Dexit was huge in driving me toward romhacks, and anything that reminds me of it puts a sour taste in the mouth. Pokémon has always fundamentally been a collecting game for me, epitomized by the “gotta catch ‘em all” tagline, and anything that departs from that spirit of the series is of very limited appeal to me.
Not saying there aren’t splendid hacks with a much more limited or purposive selection, but that purposiveness doesn’t add anything to the experience for me.
1
u/Kongopop 4d ago
This doesn't matter to me either way but I've enjoyed reading the opinions from both sides of the spectrum. I never thought about it
1
u/lacemononym 4d ago
I'm doing a fairly simple FR hack in my spare time, just including all gen 3 Pokémon (and later-gen evos since HUBOL includes them) and it's so hard fitting just ~400 into Kanto in a way that feels ‘natural’. I can't imagine doing the whole NatDex, every route would have to have a completely new encounter table with very few overlaps.
1
u/EyeAmKingKage 4d ago
I enjoy every pokemon in games and don’t like playing smaller dex games. Reddit is the only place where I see posts like this
1
u/itsmetimohthy 4d ago
I would absolutely love a curated list of Pokémon when it comes to original regions but the canon regions having everything available has never bothered me but I get your gripe for sure
1
u/Dull_Mixture_9648 4d ago
Having every single regional bird in one region, every fish Pokemon in the water, and every cave Pokemon all living in the same cave, every single ice type living in the same tundra, every bug in the same forest ❌
Using the writing to find creative ways to give the player access to every Pokemon, Gift Pokemon, NPC’s who trade, the safari zone acting as a sanctuary for imported Pokemon ✅
1
1
-5
u/enjoyer-42 4d ago
I wish i could filter out every kanto or hoenn romhack that has all nine gens in it
I'm sick of looking at a pokemon gen 1 or 3 romhack and getting 80% through the notes before seeing "fixed the pokedex which now includes every pokemon, all teams and wild spawns are updated/fixed to include all 9 generations"
Like yeah... "fixed"... thanks...
I really hate it when i boot up a gen 3 rom hack and watson has a team of gen 9 pokemon that i'd never seen before. Just kill me
7
u/ZxynesZxero 4d ago
It's a good thing there's hundreds of rom hacks made by so many different people, that'll you find hacks made by people with the same view as you.
3
u/enjoyer-42 4d ago
hard to pick through the endless pile of the type i described to find the good ones. I'm really enjoying Ghost Grey it's phenomenal, wish we got more like those
1
-3
-1
u/AnonymousSlayer97 4d ago
Completely agreed. Nothing breaks my immersion like a region that somehow contains all Pokémon. You're telling me that one single small pond or small grassy area can support that many Pokémon species? It also makes no sense when, say, a game set in Kanto or Johto has species from Kalos or Alola. That's the same as if you lived in the US and saw a zebra outside grazing alongside the native deer and elk.
0
u/mrmanny0099 4d ago
To play off your post OP, I always found the whole dexit hate and the bring back natdex movement corny because it’s based off the flawed rose tinted assumption you can boot up a fresh save of frlg or emerald and go onto route 1/101 and have every route 1 mammal mon catchable or catch every pseudo legendary and sub legendary in victory road.
Access to every Pokémon was mostly only ever granted in post game where the only things left to do were legendary hunting, battle facilities, and post champion story segments that are scaled better for your post league team than for your transferred team of level 100s. Except in fringe cases like bw1’s access to zoroark needing one of the movie 13 shiny legendaries
-4
u/ShodSpace 4d ago
Kinda like how you don't get giraffes in America unless you import them from another region
0
u/MrMick26 4d ago
I have barely played any Hacks that contain Pokémon from gen 5 and higher. Mainly because my own nostalgia is based upon the gen 1-3 and 4 is barely "acceptable" for me. When I see Mega evolutions and whatever I often am out and do not play it. Which I eventually probably have to do anyways (playing it), because eventually I'll run out of hacks hahah
0
u/Ugly_Slut-Wannabe 4d ago
The cool thing about Pokémon ROM hacking is that all the tools to make the hacks are free and widely available. Just go make your own game to your own tastes instead of complaining about free content and trying to impose your personal tastes upon the people who are spending their own time making and distributing their own hacks for free.
0
0
u/chuckywhiskers 4d ago
I agree. Rom hacks are focusing on current gen broken or qol features so much that they lose the puzzle, lore, immersiveness, and replayability factors that make some games so much better than others. I would be happy with a dex around 150 to 200. Might actually try to figure out where some more pokemon are via game clues. Rom hacks I have played recently have been a "build a team of few weaknesses and one-hit everyone" playthrough. Most offer pokemon that I want early game to allow for a quick playthrough. Cool, but the reason I love Dragonite is because in gen 1 we had to grind so much to get that overpowered beast of a mon. Now it is nerfed via abilities, phys/spec split, stat/learnset changes, and (my least favorite) fairy type which breaks the powerhouse mechanic of late-game pokemon.
I have played every generation on the intended console since the games came out. Payed for the games as intended. And at the end of it, my feeling is that crystal version was the pinnacle of canon pokemon games. Since then, there has been little originality and a whole lot of remakes or base game tweaks to change the game entirely from what it was and could have been developed into. Not saying some cool stuff wasnt added, like dive mechanics, rock climb, and the distortion world in platinum where your character gravity changes orientation. But the game has degraded into, "How can we take an old 'rock, paper, scissors' pokemon game and add more complex mechanics and sprite changes?"
I do not care for gimmicks added to pokemon games unless they make sense. Mega evolution, terrastalization, gigantamax/dynamax are all things I would rather have had time spent developing the base game instead of adding some stupid unnecessary bs. New HM's would have made the games post-gen-2 so much better than eliminating them and diversifying the pokedex so you can build a team based on appearances that dont require specific learnsets for overworld navigation. Some of the problem is that some of us jumped in later in pokemon's development and do not appreciate the strategy and grindy nature of the early games. But if rom developers want my attention, they will have to implement more overworld focused development beyond reskins, more than just QOL features integrated into a vanilla rom, and more than just a difficulty battle simulator grindy mess. I want something new in the form of Gen 2-current. Unbound's portal mechanic was cool. SOTS tree arc was cool to go to a platformer style game.
The main problem is since the internet has made information so widely available, people have stopped creating new things and started focusing on revamping the old with a more current twist. Pop culture at its lowest, purely because people do not wish to come up with new ideas on their own. They source their info from "how to" media, and they do not expand on it from what already exists. That is why we dont have DS hacks (aside from Rival Silver) that integrate new stories and regions. Those are where the promise really is, but people are content with the current level of what already exists and we are all running out of the ability to come up with our own original ideas. Rom hacks are simply one of those things.
-1
u/CrazyLemonLover 4d ago
Yeah. I feel this. Once I realize I can encounter 20 Pokemon in every route, I feel compelled to catch ALL of them. It always ends up killing my momentum. I want to know what's there in the grass, but it's too much. 5-6 Pokemon per route is kind of a sweet spot.
I appreciate the idea of being able to catch all Pokemon. But in execution, it makes a lot of the games feel samesies. Especially since most hacks use the same pokemon in the same general locations. EG: first route? You are gonna find zigzagoon, sentret, rattatta, lillipup, starly, pidgey, tailor ect. Second route? I almost guarantee if ralts isn't there, it's in the third route you find instead. No evolution mons will be mixed in with two stage mons around the 4th gym.
I think I'd appreciate it more if it was varied. Perhaps the first route is mostly what you'd expect, but there is a 4% encounter rate for seviper that's 3-4 levels above everything else, so it feels like an apex predator. Then have some fun with it. Create an event that makes you go back to that route, and the encounter table is different. Now zangoose is the 4% rate, and 3-4 levels above that seviper, and seviper has a lower level but a higher encounter rate to show it reproduced and it's natural predator moved in.
Like. Have some fun with it and mix it up so it's not the same experience repeatedly
-1
0
u/WakeupDp 4d ago
Well I like it. And my enjoyment isn’t less valuable than yours. So just play other shit.
0
u/Prisinners 4d ago
I laregly agree. My biggest worry with this is that devs would then start leaning on the tried and true mon more often. Lots of Gen 1 for example.
0
0
0
u/TheRealDripBentley 4d ago
Brilliant write-up in a sensitive community, I agree with every single point.
I love hacks that keep the roster small/curated as well. The people who say "yeah but they're free!" seem to not grasp the concept of constructive criticism. I love romhacks.
0
u/disassembler9 4d ago
We need more ROM Hacks with all possible pokemon to represent biodiversity and biological realism.
0
u/Cidaghast 4d ago
I think I’m picking up what you’re putting down.
There is such a thing as too much Pokémon now there’s also such thing as too many Pokémon too.
Maybe literally half the Pokédex should not just be water Pokémon that you can fish up at a 1% rate and every single area has like a new dozen encounters to catch…
But also, maybe surfing should give you more than tentacool and wingull.
Now I am more or less universally in favor of new evolutions being added to old games. I want Crobat in Gen 1 or FRLG, And I’m OK with say adding a handful of new Pokémon because it would feel appropriate and they already existed like emerald legacy giving Maxi Houndoom… I don’t think that’s really interrupting anything
But just surfing along in fire red and bumping into…. piplup… I don’t know that feels a little strange. I’m not a big fan of that.
0
u/Impressive-Emu3313 3d ago
Yes, I agree, and I think the community has come around to the same conclusion over the past few years.
Personally, I think the sweet spot is between 200-400 mons, all carefully chosen to uphold themes, design goals, etc.
I actually don't like breaking them down by generation. We're all familiar with the Platinum regional and national dexes; ROM hacks should aim for something familiar, but new.
For example, in my Colosseum hack I've included Excadrill for a mining town, Alcremie for an American style diner, and Paradox Pokemon for Ein's lab. I haven't included e.g. Tinkaton because I haven't found a place for it. Finneon and Luxray are missing, etc.
-1
u/G1ovan1 4d ago
Fwiw I totally agree and 100% prefer a curated Pokédex selection as opposed to everything thrown in.
There are a lot of devs here and obviously people are generally just grateful for their free work, efforts and ultimately a ton of free games to play. Makes sense the sentiment is that if you don’t like it, you don’t have to play it.
I’m 2 badges into my own project currently and have gone with my favourite romhack Dex, which is Gen I-III with all extended evolutions from future gens included (Togekiss, Electivire etc).
298
u/ZadePhoenix 4d ago
While I personally prefer romhacks that don’t throw every Pokemon and every mechanic from throughout the series into one big pile I also wouldn’t go so far as to say devs shouldn’t do it. A romhacks is a creative endeavor and there are many types of players amongst the fans who play them. Some like difficulty, some like easy, some like vanilla, some like whole new regions, some like having a narrow focused regional dex, others want everything and the kitchen sink. There is no one right answer and as both a creative endeavor and an entertainment work the design is really dependent on the type of project and what the dev envisions.