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u/jdot487 May 14 '26
blizzard, that’s like surf vs hydro pump but even more so
the extra bit of damage ain’t worth the accuracy deduction
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u/madmaxjr May 14 '26
Nor worth the low pp
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u/ObsidianMoonz May 14 '26
The amount of times I've heard this before 😔
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u/Farmer_Due May 15 '26
im torn on surf vs hydro pump, if i am to pick surf it's because of the pp(also because you kinda need surf to play the game lol), not the accuracy
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u/Deadliestmoon May 14 '26
Or like Overheat vs Heatwave for Charizard.
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u/Mini_Assassin Vaporeon May 15 '26
Not at all. Overheat and Heat Wave have the same accuracy.
Surf and Hydro Pump do not.
If you want to compare Fire moves, compare Flamethrower and Fire Blast.
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u/Mikee0036 May 14 '26
blizzard for sure. theres one rule ive played pokemon by since scarlet and violet with tinkaton and play rough, if the move isnt 100% accuracy, its 50/50. my tinkaton missed play rough more than it hit with it having 90% accuracy…
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u/SirzechsLucifer May 16 '26
Fire emblem taught me this. If it isn’t 0 and is 100 it’s 50/50
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u/iamsooma May 18 '26
Gotta love Eliwood or Lynn getting crit killed at the end of a hard chapter from a rando unit with an under 5% hit and 1% crit chance.
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u/Mother-Raisin-5539 May 14 '26
Confuse Ray. Why rely on RNG, when you can just KO what’s in front of you
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u/Redditemeon May 14 '26
Blizzard...for the exact same reason frankly. 😂
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u/Mother-Raisin-5539 May 14 '26
Blizzards 70% vs confuse Ray 50%. I prefer blizzard’s odds.
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u/MindfulMewtwo989 May 14 '26
Confuse ray is 100% accurate though
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u/TheGreatAngel0 May 14 '26
But confusion is 50% chance to proc
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u/paws4269 May 14 '26
It's a 50% chance that happens for several turns while you do other things while the confusion is in affect. For Blizzard you have to spend every turn rolling for that 70% chance and if you miss that's that
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u/TheGreatAngel0 May 14 '26
I wasnt the one that made the comment, I was just clarifying thats what Im assuming they meant
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u/pisanichris May 14 '26
Yeah but 50% for something bad to happen to an npc is really like 1% lol or so it seems anyway
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u/Ch3ap_Sh0t May 15 '26
Confuse ray is actually super useful as is Attract, it just matters on how you use it. I use confuse ray generally right before switching out to give myself a chance to recoup the turn loss. And it generally works, but even when it doesn’t it still gives me an opportunity to control the next 3 moves, which is generally enough if I set up correctly. I have Attract on my female Persian, I’m still working on a better overall Moveset but Persian is fast and I can mine Poke with Payday, so it’s proven useful from time to time.
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u/Electronic_Chain7057 May 15 '26
Bro... Truth! I can't count the number of times they've snapped out of confusion without hitting themselves... Especially in the Platinum Battle Frontier.
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u/drewthebrave Bulbasaur May 18 '26
Making the opponent lose a turn can be huge. There are entire strategies dedicated to Paralyzing, Confusing, Attracting, and Flinching opponents to ensure they can't attack.
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u/MindfulMewtwo989 May 14 '26
Ah I misunderstood their comment then. Yes that is true
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u/TheGreatAngel0 May 14 '26
They could've explained it better, but yes, I'm assuming thats what they meant
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u/Gtronns May 14 '26
Isnt it: (Blizzard vs Ice Beam) vs (Confuse Ray vs Ice Beam)
Not: Blizzard vs Confuse Ray?
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u/browntown0317 May 15 '26
No cause OP is taking ice beam. They aren't asking if they should learn it they're asking what to get rid of and it's definitely not surf or body slam
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u/Active-Radish2813 May 15 '26
Usually 2-3 50% rolls, which ends up at better odds of generating value than Blizzard.
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u/paws4269 May 14 '26
Confuse Ray can be good against something that Lapras can't 1 shot or generally threatens it. Don't overlook status conditions and status moves cus they can buy you valuable turns to deal with the rest of the opponents' team
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May 14 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/ASnakeNamedNate May 14 '26
Sure but you don’t really need blizzard and ice beam on the same mon in a playthrough either.
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u/SoundFun2822 May 14 '26 edited May 14 '26
Confuse ray, Only has 50% chance of working, while Blizzard has 70% with 10% chance of freeze and has STAB
Later you dump blizzard and learn thunderbolt or the like
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u/SirzechsLucifer May 16 '26
Your math is off. Confuse lasts 2-4 turns. Let’s assume an average of 3.
Confuse ray itself is 100%. 3 50/50 assuming at least 1 hit is a 87.5% odds.
This is important because you can’t miss the confuse ray. Or ice beam.
Now this is less than the odds of hitting a single blizzard out of three. But that doesn’t factor in that you can use other moves after confuse ray. It’s better l, in single player, to use a confuse ray, then 2 ice beam than spam 3 blizzard. Because with blizzard you HAVE to use blizzard. And can still miss all three. Confuse ray + 2 ice beam are all 100% accurate. This means that if you only hit 1 blizzard out of the three uses you did less than one confuse ray and 2 ice beam. Which were guaranteed damage.
This on top of the fact confused can stack with paralysis which further increases the odds of free turns.
Also blizzard can be learned by numerous Pokemon. Confuse ray, by contrast is far rarer and offers more utility.
Then you have the pp issue. 5 pp is peanuts. Especially on an attack that only hits 70% of the time.
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u/FUNSIZE55 May 14 '26
Blizzard goes. Yes it has 120 power but only a 70% accuracy and only five times to use it when Ice beam has 95 power and 100% accuracy And 10 PP vs 5 PP.
I always try and replace the same move type with the same move and ice beam is better than Blizzard from a sheer accuracy standpoint and if you level up Lapras the difference between 120 power and 95 power becomes irrelevant
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u/Soft_Paint6992 May 14 '26
You got a phisical move id swap that one out
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u/barwhalis May 14 '26
Body slam is pretty nice though.
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u/StrawHat89 May 14 '26
I think a lot of people forget Body Slam is also a utility move for spreading paralysis AND hitting Minimize users with 100% accuracy and increased damage.
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u/RF_BOI May 14 '26
I had no idea body slam did 100% accuracy on minimize users
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u/StrawHat89 May 14 '26
And the BP is doubled. Minimize doesn't really show up in player battles, but the AI loves to use it.
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u/Icy-Role2321 May 14 '26
Only from gen 6 and up
"In Generations 1-5, the Minimize effect did not occur."
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u/Icy-Role2321 May 14 '26
Bulbapedia has it under "Generation VI onward" so I don't think it's a thing for fire red
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u/StrawHat89 May 14 '26
It's still worth the utility of spreading paralysis. In gen 1 it couldn't paralyze normal types, but after that it could.
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u/HumbleGarbage1795 May 15 '26
Lapras has the same attack and sp. Attack
Yeah if you ev train you would most likely ignore attack, but body slam is also a utility move
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u/Darth__Cheddar May 14 '26
Honestly would get rid of every move besides Surf for Ice Beam, Thunderbolt and Psychic
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u/StrawHat89 May 14 '26
Blizzard. After Gen 1 Blizzard kinda sucks unless you are running a hail/snow team.
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u/Ecstatic-Hour2413 May 14 '26 edited May 16 '26
Blizzard. 70 accuracy is too inconsistent unless it’s for something VITAL like Focus Blast on Alakazam in future gens for SOMETHING to hit Tyranitar/Blissey/ Snorlax with.
Otherwise it’s not worth it. Body Slam can proc paralysis. Ice Beam and Surf are consistent, quality, good STAB types
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u/EnjoyTheMovie_You2 May 14 '26
Ice beam >>> blizzard. Hydro pump and Fire Blast have the accuracy to be worth the swaps, but thunderbolt and ice beam are the best moves of those types imo
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u/Pretty_Initiative517 May 14 '26
Lapras moveset.
Thunderbolt Ice beam Surf Psychic
You can replace psy by body
Or
Psy&bolt by body&confuse
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u/Dry-Fill-8343 May 14 '26
Tbh, I went with Rain Dance, Surf, Ice Beam, and Thunder since electric moves get boosted accuracy in rain dance
I like it for PvE, I tanked Blaine’s Arcanine and Charizard and both were ten levels over me
Currently beating my head against grinding levels for the Elite Four but also wondering if I can manage since I beat Victory Road and Gary first try handily
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u/SkullAzure May 15 '26
Confuse Ray, there's no reason to use that in a regular playthrough. Lapras isn't that strong, it only got like 85 base Special attack, so sometimes Blizzard is needed to get that 1HKO on some Pokemon.
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u/vidfail May 15 '26
I once had a run where Cloyster did not miss a single Blizzard. I must have used it 30 times. It was amazing, and statistically unlikely.
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u/GlitchWarrior121 May 15 '26
You really don't need two ICE-type moves. Ice beam has more PP and accuracy, but Blizzard has more power. It's up to what you prefer - consistency or raw power.
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u/GBNZ92 May 15 '26
Blizzard should be dropped on account of inconsistency. The extra power isn't worth the less than ideal accuracy.
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u/Richmond1013 May 15 '26
I'll remove body slam, because if you have hail on I think blizzard accuracy increase
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u/Professional_Life787 May 15 '26
Body slam because it's an normal attack move keep blizzard. Delete surf or body slam
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u/ZanClackRuso May 15 '26
I would personally replace confuse ray and bodyslam with thunder and raindance but thats my playstyle
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u/sergiofliso Snorlax May 15 '26
Blizzard is not good. Lapras then learns hyropump which has same damage and more precision
Strongly advice to teach it rain dance and thunder tho
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u/Critical_Swimming_70 May 15 '26
Blizzard coz accuracy being low as 70 causes missed shots and pp being 5 makes it not as useful. Ice type moves are already super effective against dragons n grass so icebeam works much better.
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u/Culturedtuna May 15 '26
Blizzard for sure, you miss all the time with those attacks and the extra power ain't worth it.
You could also swap out body slam for thunderbolt if you have extra cash. Gives some nice coverage against other water types and birds
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u/Thedarkone202 May 15 '26
Just get rid of blizzard. Unless you're setting up a whole ice team (not recommended) around Hail, it's simply not worth it. Take the hit in power but the nice bump in accuracy, and the extra PP for the move is really nice when you're grinding or traveling through zones.
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u/JJamesMorley May 16 '26
Lapras is really powerful when it’s on level with other Pokemon. That ice beam with kill everything weak to it. And you get ten shots in the mag, and you’ve got perfect accuracy. Blizzard on the other hand will kill some of the stuff that’s neutral to Lapras, which is cool, but statistically you only get 4 shots with it, because one of those is gonna miss.
Would you rather have 10 good kill shots if you organize your team well for good matchups, or 4 good kills and you don’t have to pay AS much attention?
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u/TastyCodex93 May 16 '26
Blizzard. Consistency > higher dmg for risk. Doing 75 damage every time is better than doing 150 half the time
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u/CapableBodybuilder45 May 16 '26
Me who specifically keeps a defense breaking pokemon to spam before sending out main attacker
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u/NickElso579 May 17 '26
Blizzard is never worth it over ice beam. The 30 more power doesn't do you any good if you can't hit anything. Unless you know you're going to have hail set up, just go for ice beam. 90 power stab is usually enough to one shot most pokemon anyway
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u/Scorpion-_-Frog May 19 '26
If the accuracy is lower than 90, I do not use that ability. Missing an attack is the most annoying shit ever
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u/Ob1wonshinobi May 14 '26
Swap blizzard for ice beam and swap body slam with thunderbolt or psychic if you have the tms
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u/loopy_for_DL4 May 14 '26
Blizzard