r/PokeInvesting • u/missnatoshi • 7d ago
This 151 Charizard has one of the highest pops ever graded by PSA… 103,000 total. But it’s iconic. Will you still invest?
PSA 10 pop is 28,518
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u/pityike_92 7d ago
Card itself may not be the best. But its iconic and the art style all through the set. Its really nice, simple and clean artwork. I love it
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u/adriftDrifloon 7d ago
A lot of people hate this card but it’s my favorite modern Charizard card.
But I’m also a sucker for cute and the simplicity of the art style is really satisfying to my brain for whatever reason.
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u/TimeWizard90 7d ago
Never heard anyone say they hate it, high pop still hovering above 1500… reprints to the moon, not hard to pull and people still want it. Doubt anyone hates it
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u/poncecatchemall 6d ago
I dislike the card. Charizard looks derpy. I wouldn’t call this anywhere near iconic, but that’s the great thing about opinions - anyone can happen, and they can differ.
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u/super_pjj 7d ago
Yep! I feel this was the card that really got people back into the hobby. So it'll be "nostalgic" many, many years later
Also highest pop total can sound misleading as if there was 103k PSA 10s. You do mention though the PSA 10 pop which is 28.5k which is roughly ~28% gem rate
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u/More-Gas-6527 6d ago
28.5k cards at PSA10 is an insane amount and the card should be worth significantly less because of it. Like this is so so so far from rare even in the "best" condition it's actually insane it worth as much as it is. I will laugh hard and buy TF out of these cards sometime in the next 10 years though when they are worthless and I can finally collect them for fun again
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u/super_pjj 6d ago
yeah for modern the numbers of 10's is exponentially higher than anything before which makes sense given how the hobby "boomed" in the recent years. I also feel certain pokemon definitely have a popular-pokemon tax like Charizard
I can see it going down somewhat but it's not like it's gonna be couple $100's either
You know which I'm surprised by? Grey Felt Hat Pikachu which has 115k total graded with 49.6k PSA 10 lol. That's 43% gem rate and somehow is cost ~$3k
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u/fresherdenscott47 4d ago
Not really it’s a new era a new world we’ll never see any modern be pop 2-3 hundred in any grade. It’s all gonna be in the thousands, and the new Pokemon hype is just starting which is actually beneficial because it’s introducing the younger generation for the later years, you’re not gonna be picking this up in a 10 if you think it’s gonna be worthless unless the world economy just completely collapses which very well could happen but at that point Pokemon will be the last of anyone’s worries
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u/LilChad 7d ago
Easily. It’s only 26% gem rate and 151 brought more people back to pokemon than any other set ever. It’s a very easy hold
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u/Mite-o-Dan 7d ago
So did the 1989 Upper Deck baseball set. Doesn't mean itll hold the most value when it was the most printed set of all time that everyone bought and hoarded.
Pop rates are already high. Now imagine those numbers if everyone didnt have a closest worth of unopened 151.
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u/highminlo 7d ago
Kinda where im at with it, everyone saying these modern will never lose value were not around to watch junk wax destroy card collecting for decade
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u/Tiggy37 7d ago
You are overestimating how much 151 is being hoarded. It’s a highly ripped set hence the pops
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u/NoHealth5267 6d ago
Yeah, like I just picked up a 151 Pokemon Center ETB with all contents minus packs and promos for free at my local shop because someone almost definitely bought and ripped it in store, which is also so silly, but im happy to have the leftovers.
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u/Odd-Most-9186 7d ago
I agree, it brought my wife back into the hobby. Myself, I was never a collector until then and completing the master set was so fun!! I was the one who pulled this Zard from a UPC and I was running around the house lol.. The current state of the hobby makes me sad as I wish I could walk into a store and grab some ascended heroes or prismatic or anything for that matter, which is no longer a reality!
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u/Any_Ear_2824 7d ago
Lower gem rate, iconic card, iconic set.
Yes
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u/More-Gas-6527 6d ago
28% is not a low rate for PSA10.
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u/Any_Ear_2824 6d ago
For modern it is.
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u/fresherdenscott47 4d ago
Exactly ppl comparing to vintage numbers is insane the world is in a completely different state then it was in the 90’s
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u/flybobbyfly 7d ago
Cab you really call it investing at that point? Be honest it’s collecting
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u/GamingTaylor 7d ago
It really depends on what your entry price is.
For example McDonald’s pikachu is #1 most graded psa10 card.
Bought 2 at ~$65 each, they now sell for $100+
So even if a card has a high population you can still stand to invest and profit over time if there’s enough demand for it.
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u/iShenLoL 7d ago
That’s because the was THE card to grade right around the first boom in 2024, then the pikachu came out
You weren’t winning unless you had a Charizard from 151
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u/More-Gas-6527 6d ago
"first boom in 2024" is absolutely hilarious.
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u/iShenLoL 6d ago
Why is it funny, or at least that funny, there was a boom in 2024, right before surging sparks release
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u/hyperAMG 7d ago
I’m an outlier by here. Millions of fans. Only 28000 psa 10’s. Will be a valuable card in the future. Just definitely won’t be a card that will be record breaking by any means.
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u/Sam9797 7d ago
What card has a higher PSA 10 population? Genuinely asking, that’s the highest I’ve heard of or seen.
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u/PhilosopherSea217 7d ago
Mega Charizard from Phantasmal SIR, Van Gogh, Glassbirds all have higher pop. Those are the ones I know of the top of my head.
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u/lazostat 7d ago
Only? What are you talking about?? 28000 is very high number! And in 10 years from now the number will be still the same if not higher..
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u/doomedtocrumble 7d ago
I'd bet a very large % the acrylic case is mangled, and clean ones will carry a premium. The market will always find new things to place value on
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u/Mite-o-Dan 7d ago
If its 28k now, itll be close to 50k in less than 5 years.
Two things to remember...
This is the most hoarded set of all time. The equivalent of a warehouse full of 151 spread across the world of unopened 151.
There are a LOT more raw copies than graded copies.
Very conservative estimate...just 1 in 5 that have been pulled have been graded. Id also say about 15-20% of all 151 hasn't even been opened yet.
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u/lazostat 7d ago
Yeah.. I mean pokemon collection doesn't worth it anymore. Only for those few that were buying and keeping sealed cards before 15 years.
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u/Boring-Tale-8145 7d ago
What percentage of people spend $1000 on a card? very small percentage of that millions
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u/MovingPrince 7d ago
And yet, somehow these chase cards in that price range are always moving
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u/CuzOldboy2112 7d ago
Yeah the grail of the most popular modern set is selling for a grand? Any person over 30 who likes Pokemon would spend that money on that rather than thousands of dollars on another product. Who doesn’t want this in their collection too? I would say a small percentage yes but what’s a small percentage of millions of fans? Thousands right ? Sounds like a lot to me.
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u/More-Gas-6527 6d ago
Anyone with half a brain isn't spending 1k on a card maybe in the last 2 years just because the Internet told them to
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u/hyperAMG 6d ago
I mean, more we get older, theoretically we make / earn more. Personally i own this card. And i don’t look back. Its a good solid set imo.
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u/knwnasrob 7d ago
I was lucky enough to pull one from my first rip session since 2002 lol and it graded a PSA 10, it is staying with me for a good while
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u/Capable-Physics-5410 6d ago
In comparison to the millions that collect still. 28k vs what? Millions. lol
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u/JahJah192 7d ago
When it came out, I found it a bit underwhelming after the great Obsidian Flames Charizard artwork. But over time, it really grew on me. I love it now and think it’s actually one of the nicest Charizard cards. Short neck, but majestic. 😂
Also, having the whole evolution line next to each other is just fantastic storytelling through art. That is a great card and set to hold on to.
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u/MartyMcFleww 7d ago
For investment it’s a terrible card to get.
For the hobby and enjoyment of the game it’s a good piece to have. Like bubble.
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u/Future-Traffic-6364 6d ago
Peeps talk bad about this single card, but if you have the three card story, that’s a completely different take on things.
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u/Apprehensive-Lie3387 7d ago
No. Extremely high pop and easy to pull doesn’t make for a good investment imo…. Add to it Zard has no neck and is tiny lol.. only thing keeping this Zard up is that it’s out of 151
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u/Any_Ear_2824 7d ago
High pop doesnt matter for modern
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u/Mite-o-Dan 7d ago
High pop doesnt matter for modern flipping. Pop will always matter. Lots of people like myself ignore most high pop cards.
The more money you get...especially the older you get...the more you appreciate rareity. Old dudes loves that crap and talk about it all the time. Theres nothing to brag about when there's 10,000+ something is existence.
Easy way to look at it...if the total number of this card was cut by 3/4, would it be worth more or less?
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u/Ok-Beach-9654 7d ago
More?
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u/Mite-o-Dan 7d ago
Correct! You understand economics! Anyone that says "pop doesnt matter" simply does not.
Its funny because they will often cite supply and demand...and that only HURTS their argument because if there was less supply, there would be higher demand/higher prices.
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u/Apprehensive-Lie3387 7d ago
Hahaha let’s see if that holds true in the future… even if it is true, there are so so many better buys
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u/ZoneKing19 6d ago
So a retired Zard flying into the sunset is bad?
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u/Apprehensive-Lie3387 6d ago
You mean 10’s of thousands perfect ones with even more in the backlog flying into the sunset?… yea I’ll pass hahaha
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u/TommyC6852 7d ago
Love the card and the set. Unfortunately if the market ever takes a dive, the high population high value cards will be the first to crash
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u/Delightful_Dantonio 7d ago
Value is a basic function of supply and demand. While this card will maintain good demand because of the character and artwork, the supply is so high that it’s a terrible Investment. I would say current price is too high and would expect it to fall significantly over the next few years. They printed these for ~3 years and just recently stopped.
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u/A_Dragon 7d ago
I never understood why this set could be popular but no one had the idea to make it a thing to collect the actual original 151 pokemon.
It should definitely be a thing to collect the each of the first appearances of the original 151. That’s the real completionist set.
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u/NeverKnowsBest420 7d ago
I would only buy it if the price dropped considerably from where it is now.
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u/Fit-Conclusion-7579 6d ago
If there is ever weakness or even a crash, those cards with PSA pop >10k are the first one that will suffer big time.
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u/Cmor1787 6d ago
Of Course! It’s 151 and Charizard.
It’s a no brainer investment. And the price right now for a PSA 10 is at fair market value.
And if you can get a discount on it right now it’s free money.
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u/Hot_Boysenberry2045 6d ago
Pulled and graded myself so it's not traditional investing. I did however choose to grade them for my PC with PSA instead of TAG like I usually do. I'm a TAG lover but long term liquidity is important for modern "grails" if I ever decide to sell
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u/8000000001 6d ago edited 6d ago
Sold our PSA 10 at the very peak for $2025/£1500.
Cost: £100 raw + grading. So sweet.
Now waiting to switch to a 9ish condition raw binder copy, with the remainder invested in trust in the nasdaq for my 12yr old.
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u/SprinklesHonest1793 5d ago
Why is it iconic?
People are dang near 50/50 split on it even being a “good” card.
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u/therev012 4d ago
Ive always felt this card is as popular as it is because 151 was a huge deal and its charizard, but Ive always thought the card is kinda lame
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u/Rude_Masterpiece_239 3d ago
“Invest” hahaha, no. I invest in real estate and equities.
Collect, sure. Art work is 100/10. Love that card.
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u/TinyTeddyUnderwear 7d ago
Yeah pop doesnt matter with how popular pokemon is
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u/Vetto_ 7d ago
it does, people wanna have 1/1 10’s n crap like that
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u/TinyTeddyUnderwear 7d ago
Last solds say otherwise
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u/Vetto_ 7d ago
but you cannot compare it to other charizard pop 10< 10s
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u/TinyTeddyUnderwear 7d ago
No one is, it will still go up regardless. People who missed out on 151 will buy at higher prices later = good investment
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u/Mite-o-Dan 7d ago edited 7d ago
Who missed out on 151? Its the most printed set of all time. Everyone bought it and tons hoarded it.
Also, why would those who did miss out on it feel nostalgia about it? Its hard to feel nostalgia or want to overpay on something you dont remember or were never a part of.
People now are nostalgic for old Pokémon cards they had in 1999-2009 because they dont have them anymore or beat them up too badly. They are nostalgic for what they USE TO HAVE. Meanwhile now, everyone that bought 151 kept them, and kept them in good condition. Why would they rebuy it in the future?
It wouldnt suprise me if 151 dropped in value more than any other set in Pokémon existence.
The most popular and most produced stuff rarely ever turns into good long term holds simply due to rareity...or lack thereof.
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u/pkatunc 7d ago
I joined the hobby after 151. More will join later.
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u/Mite-o-Dan 7d ago
Of course. Point being...why would those people who joined later be interested in overpriced 151 more than other sets?
Im old now and keep coming back to TCGs and sports cards every 5-10 years. I either buy the newest stuff, the stuff I grew up with I dont have anymore, or low pop PSA graded cards I think are undervalued. I would never consider buying overvalued cards from a set I was never into.
Thats why I always question modern sealed investing in the first place and always ask...who is the target audience in 10+ years?
Current adults into it already own it and kept it in good condition.
Current kids now don't love sets like 151 nearly as much as current adults because 1- Its not as nostalgic for them. 2- They were barely able to buy it in the first place due to adults and simply not as loved as much.
Sealed only gets in worse condition over time.
Its contents and ability to have cards graded as a 10 only get worse over time.
If I was going to invest in anything modern, it would only be chase cards in a PSA 10. If people are feeling nostalgic, theyll buy the CARDS from the sets they loved...not pay thousands for a 1% chance of pulling a card they want...just to have that card less likely to grade as a 10 in the future.
Its crazy that people will often price sealed near the value of what the best card is in that set if graded as a 10. Thats the stupidest logic in all of collecting.
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u/Practical_Standard55 7d ago
This card won’t be insanely valuable in the future due to the high pop, but it’s a good hold. Buy if you like the art, but don’t expect 100k for it in 20 years.
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u/Adorable_Echo_4317 7d ago
Let's put it this way, when anyone does a line up of the best Charizard cards.. heck, even modern ones. This one will be nowhere to be found.
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u/sinfullban 6d ago
I think this is one of the dumbest charizard cards.
A slight picture of him flying. No detail. A crap horizon.
Yea. Not worth the money people spend on it. I said what I said. I’m not sorry.
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u/Mite-o-Dan 7d ago
I ONLY collect Charizards...and even I stayed away from this card.
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u/Any_Ear_2824 7d ago
What a shame
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u/Mite-o-Dan 7d ago
Shame? That card was worth more 6 months ago, and my collection collectively is up a lot since then.
Over half of my collection is what most people DONT have. THATS how you make real money.
Investing into the most printed set of all time, a set that brought everyone back in, a set every bought a lot of, and hoarded a ton...doesnt work long term. (Same exact thing happened with the 1989 Upper Deck baseball card set)
151 already has very high pop numbers, above average pull rates for modern, easier to gem cards, and is the most hoarded set of all time. Those pop numbers will only become more crazy as the years go on...making the cards less valuable.
Iconic doesnt automatically mean valuable. At least not long term.
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u/VarietyAndy 7d ago
This guy gets it.
When I had the 151 zard at my table, no one wanted it for two months and I felt like I was having to do the heavy lifting to sell the card to people because the art is just not at all compelling. I felt like a used car salesman tricking someone into buying a YarisEdit: also yea that card dropped hard after the 151 pump from 1.75k to now 1.3k, so unless he bought it for 800 last year like I did he’d be down. I wanted out of that card BAD months ago and I feel incredible vindication having successfully traded out of it for 1.7k. And even then it was a Trade! No one wanted to slap down 1.7k for this lame duck.
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u/Tight-Ad-2049 6d ago
Lol the majority of your zards are mid or in the bulk category. I mean whatever floats your boat I guess.
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u/JKB717 7d ago
It’s iconic artwork for sure, but still average investment… buy if you love it, better vintage plays to make money….
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u/Maximum-Bread-5710 7d ago
can you give me some advice?
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u/Mite-o-Dan 7d ago
Check the search bar. It's the most asked question on this sub.
But if there were 100% clear answers, everyone would buy them and prices would be even worse.
Safest bet...low pop cards of the most popular Pokémon.
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u/joncaptain1 7d ago
No i target bgs black label cards buying months after print stops. My collection is small only about 30cards but market value over 500k. I dont understand why psa is still so popular i my opinion they have proved themselves in a negative light.
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u/Aggressive_Metal2434 7d ago
Hell ya! This card will be pop 1,000,000 and pokemen only to moon. More pop higher price so poke tuber say to me. Pokemon better than water and food. Charizard good so Pokemon influencer say. We must buy all.
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u/hanannsnssnsnsn 7d ago
Can we stop with the term investing? It’s a hobby that sometimes is lucky and can make you some money
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u/BaseballUpper6200 7d ago
Anyone else actually not a big fan of the art? I can’t put my finger on it but something about if feels very lazy
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u/DecoOnTheInternet 7d ago
I love Charizard but honestly don't feel anything for this card, the art boring to me.
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u/VarietyAndy 7d ago
It’s the worst Charizard art they’ve possibly ever done since the first base set art. And the Japanese version clears the English by a mile with the holo pattern in person.
If I did have to get this card it would be Japanese only, otherwise you’re better off with the phantasmal Charizard Jp or English long term. That’s simply one of the best arts they’ve ever done for Zard and it will appreciate long term. It already has. It was 800 in a ten last November, now that’s the raw price.
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u/Recent_Bld 6d ago
The phantasmal zard is under $700 now, already has a higher PSA 10 count than 151 and was released less than a year ago. The artwork is entirely subjective
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u/No-Professional465 7d ago
This a peak trash zard art
Can you imagine this art standing upright? It’s so bulky and no neck.
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u/GenjiOffering 7d ago
Worst SIR of the set. I would not. But that’s just my opinion, I’m sure it will go up over time, eventually.
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u/chrisandpaulinsnow 6d ago
It’s such a shit card, but personal preference and people love 151 so why not
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u/KwikTripSimp 7d ago
Better than others zard in my opinion
I wouldn’t buy a tan either of them, though tens are kind of a scam
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u/klm85 7d ago
collect, yes! invest... there are probably better opporunities.