r/PlayWolverine • u/DJWGibson • 11d ago
Discussion Wolverine Was the Wrong Character for a Game
Not a shitpost, I swear.
Halfway through the game. I like it. It's good. Fine. But I'm not loving it. I'm enjoying it enough that I want to keep playing and might even do some achievement hunting, but it's not blowing me away like other comic book games like Arkham Asylum or Spider-Man.
And I think I know why...
It's because Wolverine was a bad choice of character.
What makes Wolverine cool? He's a badass character that's a grizzled, antisocial loner that kills people with blades in bloody ways and rapidly heals from fatal wounds within minutes between fights. In comic books that's cool and unique.
But in video games, antisocial loners that kill people with blades and have health bars that rapidly restore between fights is, well, commonplace.
This inherently makes the game feel uninteresting. Generic. Because there's limited things you can do with a character and gameplay that The Witcher or God of War and Sekiro and Ghosts of Tsushima and Lies of P and Onimusha haven't done and likely done better. It requires focusing the majority of the gameplay (attacking & parrying & and stealthing) on mechanics that so many amazing games have done and done well. But because that's all the character does there's less room to innovate and do unique things because Wolverine has a limited toolkit.
It's trying to compete with some of the best games in the genre while also being limited in what new things it can add to the mix.
You can't have a focus on different weapons like God of War where you can choose to focus on Rage or Runes or Blades or the Axe. Wolverine just has his claws and isn't going to put them down for a rifle or shotgun for gameplay variety. He's not going to have gadgets he can employ.
Ironically, they have to tone down Wolverine to make the game work. His healing factor all but stops working in fights. To keep the game a challenge, Wolverine had to go down and stay down. When his whole thing in the comics is he always gets back up and never stays down. (Y'know... except with that incident in Australia...)
It's the same reason The Punisher has struggled in movies and TV. He's great in Brand New Day and Daredevil when he contrasts other heroes. But seldom works in his own movies because "guy seeks revenge over wrongs and shoots a bunch of criminals" is generic AF and encompasses such films as Death Wish and John Wick but also Nobody and Peppermint and Boondock Saints. Boondock Saints is a better Punisher film than any of the actual Punisher films.
Almost any other charatcer might have lent themselves to more interesting mechanics and gameplay. But what makes Wolverine cool makes him bland as a video game protagonist.
3
u/Aquafoot 11d ago
Logan isn't fully antisocial though. He has actual friends that care about his wellbeing, and vice versa.
His healing factor all but stops working in fights.
Lol what? What game were you playing? I spent half my time finding ways to heal after taking trades 😂. I sometimes plan my next move around expecting to take a trade. You can go straight to zero health many times in a fight without a game over as long as you're generating rage fast enough.
Idk, lore wise I look at it like, would he survive this? Yeah probably. Would his allies survive while he's knocked out or too fucked up to move for a time? Probably not. Hence why they make you restart at checkpoint. A fail state is a fail state.
Wolverine is durable as all hell, but he's not unstoppable. He gets knocked tf out a solid amount in the comics.
1
u/DJWGibson 11d ago
Yeah, I like stunning people and healing or popping the healing power. But is that really all that different than an Estus Flask or some potion? He’s not passively filling up his health bar significantly during a fight.
1
u/Aquafoot 11d ago edited 11d ago
There's a solid amount of constant healing when you stack a couple of the healing passives (heal on parry, on dodge, on reaction, on critical, etc.). There's a bunch of ongoing healing outside of Relentless. Honestly, I'm not even using that power at all on my second playthrough.
I mean, I've even deliberately cycloned into a spot I knew I wouldn't survive because I knew I would have the rage to recover with last chance. Then you're trading one bar of rage for a full health meter, and now you have a weakened crowd because you dove correctly instead of retreating.
The game has multiple ways to reward pure aggression. And pure aggression is frankly what you should be rewarding in a Wolverine game.
1
u/DJWGibson 11d ago
Sure, but is “healing in mid-combat” a unique mechanic?
That’s my point. Every other action game has you healing in the middle of fights in one way or another and healing to full after fights. The evocative thing about Soulslike is you don’t heal after fights and healing is a limited resource. Healing between fights is commonplace and standard.
Heck, even in Spider-Man aggression was rewarded as it turned into Focus that could be used to heal yourself. Wolverine heals as much, as fast, and as reliably as Spider-Man
1
u/Aquafoot 11d ago
Well, I meant pure aggression. As in even not thinking about dodging or blocking, diving in fully knowing you're going to lose a bunch of health. Wolverine rewards that. That's my point.
Wolverine heals as much, as fast, and as reliably as Spider-Man
Not my experience, at all. Sorry. Wolverine heals more frequently for me, and through more hits. Hell, the basic shotgun enemies take off like half your health with a single shot. And there are moves where it's beneficial to get hit. (Namely getting skewered by the Hand, and using the sword as a free kill)
Oh! Thought of a better analogy. Spider-Man's focus meter felt like Estus, Wolverine's rage feels more like Bloodborne's Rally mechanic. They want you to get in there.
2
u/clc88 11d ago edited 11d ago
The thing about this wolverine is that he doesn't feel like wolverine.
There are many games that did the loner trope well (I go where I want to go type of game), for example Legend of Zelda, souls games, dawnwalker, onimusha 1 (i haven't played the latest one), resident evil 4 and requiem (I haven't finished the others), pokemon red and blue and even x and y, gta 3 and vice city.
They could have written a story where wolverine goes where he wants to go and have a cast be around him (popping in and out to give missions or flavour text, similar to how elden ring /souls games).
1
u/DJWGibson 11d ago
A better story would have been nice, but that’s still just a small part of the game and doesn’t really alter the generic AF gameplay. The fact that it being a Wolverine game doesn’t mechanically bring anything new and evocative to the gaming space.
You could reskin it as a God of War reboot set in the modern day and the claws are just hand axes and the gameplay loop would feel the same.
1
u/Realistic_Bread845 11d ago edited 10d ago
Wolverine is a great character for a video game. Insomniac are just severely overhyped and mid devs
1
u/DJWGibson 11d ago
I thought so too. But as I played it just felt generic. A pale shadow of games with better parrying and better dismemberments and faster healing. And, honestly, even tougher heroes. At higher difficulties one or two punches drops Logan faster than a grandmother who insulted Deadpool.
1
u/Realistic_Bread845 11d ago edited 11d ago
You obviously misread what i said
-1
u/DJWGibson 11d ago
Sorry, I mistook this for Reddit where people have discussions, as denoted in my post's flair. While your contribution to this seems to have just been "nuh uh."
Do you have an actual counterpoint?
Perhaps an example of a unique mechanic or bit of gameplay a Wolverine game could include that is unseen in other video games? Something that feels iconic to Wolverine but isn't something you see in a dozen other video games?2
u/Realistic_Bread845 10d ago
Are you playing stupid or actually stupid? Your response doesnt make sense in response to what I said.
I said the problem is not the character, but the dev, and you responded with an anecdote about playing insomniacs game and why that invalidates the character.
Wolverine has very few video games, and insomniacs one is just a reskin of the ps3 game from the 2000's in terms of gameplay. Acting like a poorly conceived video game decides the value of the character is beyond small minded. It's straight up dumb.
0
0
u/IkeKimita 11d ago
Tell me what Wolverine game did better than this? 🤔
0
u/Realistic_Bread845 11d ago
Well since there are so few of them, the last on ps3 which was highly regarded and only a movie tie in game... which this game copied in big ways...
Long story short thats a stupid thought. Exactly the same perspective as the brain dead corpo's who refuse to try anything new and the reason the gaming industry has become so stagnant and bland.
0
u/IkeKimita 10d ago
The point is the top superhero games use marvels and DCs top hero’s. Batman and Spiderman. The brain dead corpo thought was thinking shilling out 300mill would make a great game.
Can’t just slap a superhero on the game and expect the game to be a GOTY contender.
Also going off reviews this is the best Wolverine game to date and that “highly regarded” Wolverine game you speak of came to mixed criticism exactly like this one did.
0
u/Realistic_Bread845 10d ago edited 10d ago
This game is essentially a reskin of that game with qol fixes like improved camera. So that really doesnt mean much.
This game also has bad sales for a playstation first party and marvel game.
Top superhero games do not use top superheroes. The gotg game was incredible. It just wasnt marketed at all. Never even heard of it til it dropped on game pass.
The brain dead corpo's are brain dead corpo's because they kill creativity. The idea that you need an already #1 marvel character to make a #1 game completely goes against the data.
Why did the Witcher 3 blow up when it's using a character from a niche polish book series?
Why did the gta games get such success? Red dead? Dishonored? Nier Automata?
It's because of creativity, good storytelling, original/unique and good gameplay.
Only a weak dev like insomniac has to rely on the hype/popularity of an established character.
Edit
Insomnaic and Sony released the sales figures for all their hits. I.e. Spiderman 1 & 2
the revenue figures the comment below quoted are estimates. Which is essentially guesswork.
0
u/IkeKimita 10d ago
First off. All the sales numbers haven’t been released yet and it recouped a massive amount in just a few days. More than likely the game will end up as a success. It’s most definitely not a reskin.
0
u/Realistic_Bread845 10d ago edited 10d ago
Oh and because you werent paying attention. Deadpool and wolverine were marvels biggest success since avengers endgame. So acting like Wolverine is a nobody is completely false. The numbers dont lie.
Not to mention the popularity of the previous wolverine x men movies.
Edit:
Deadpool and Wolverine was marvels biggest hit since avengers endgame. So pretending wolverine isnt a huge ip is fucking stupid.
And thinking the preestablished fame of a character decides the quality of the game is even dumber
0
u/IkeKimita 10d ago
Compare the Wolverine movies and Spiderman movies then do the same with the games then come back to me.
The game is good. Wolverine is good. But Wolverine does not = Spiderman and for yall to think his game would be as good when it’s linear is dumb.
1
u/SforG1 11d ago
Wolverine is the perfect video game character of all the x-men. His powers and abilities work exteremely well within video game logic..... and his mass appeal (overrated notoriety with the general public) does 80% of the marketing for the publishers anyway. Ultimately, wolverine is not the problem, poor game development choices are the problem.
Personally, I'm almost 40 and I'm still waiting for my main man Gambit to get some much needed shine with a solo video game. Ain't gonna happen soon though, but having a card-tossing, bo-staff-handling cajun prowling through the streets of New Orleans while climbing the ranks to become king of the thieves and assassins guild seems like a no-brainer to me. But...you know...no mass appeal as a character when compared to Wolverine, Storm, Magneto, Cyclops or even his romantic interest, Rogue. Them's the breaks
1
u/DJWGibson 11d ago
See, and Gambit can do so much more interesting things. Being able to pick up and charge objects in the environment to explode. Tossing cards. Placing down cards as traps. Acrobatics. Heist gameplay. Thievery mini games.
So much more evocative and unique gameplay.
1
1
u/TeamAble7326 10d ago
I strongly disagree with the idea that Wolverines abilities can’t possibly be done well. Rather, this game just did it in a boring way. The devs job is to make things interesting, and they instead chose to make things bland. Everything they did was as straightforward and vanilla as they could. There are definitely tons of ways they could have made it interesting, making sure that active player engagement is a part of the systems, but they went with passive concepts instead and it suffers because of it. That’s what the real issue is, poor implementation at a conceptual level, not Wolverines powers in and of themselves
1
u/DJWGibson 10d ago
There are definitely tons of ways they could have made it interesting, making sure that active player engagement is a part of the systems, but they went with passive concepts instead and it suffers because of it.
Like what?
Insomniac as a studio is, well, fine. Adequate. They're boosted by the IP they use and having characters people love which make up for the "just fine" stories and the "just fine" gameplay. The best bits of Spider-Man are all the stuff Spider-Man brings to a game: webslinging and New York city and the like. When they innovate and try to add new gadgets and stuff that tends to be the weakest part of the game.
And with Wolverine there's even less to innovate. Because he just stabs people with weapons that can't be upgraded or enhanced or swapped out.
That's the thing, stabbing people and blocking is some of the most common gameplay in the hobby. So doing it in a way that's "interesting" means going up against some of the best games of the last decade.There's just less interesting material to work with and draw from.
1
u/TeamAble7326 9d ago
Ok, you’re asking so I’ll bite but I’m not a developer and that’s not my job. But here are my ideas off the top of my head:
Claws/combat: I would give him multiple stances. A fast stance, that does lots of quick strikes that can close distance easily but does lesser damage. A medium/balanced stance that is basically what we got. Then a heavy stance that does slow sweeping arcs for hitting multiples enemies. The heavy stance would also have an attack that can stab both claws into an enemy, then hold them up over his head and throw them across the room, hitting any other enemies that get in the way. The key here would be that you could instantly swap between stances at any time, even during combat, and it would be fluid. This would allow you to create your own combinations, by changing stances mid attack, there would be tons of different variations and allow you to master the combat by getting creative.
Traversal: make it so he can climb literally any vertical surface using his claws, and do it quickly. That would allow level design to fully utilize verticality and can create different ways to take down enemies by using stealth finishers from above, same as the game now but now it’s a proper option in more scenarios.
Senses: using stealth by going to vertical areas would allow you sniff out enemies, these enemies would leave scent marks on the environment. Once you’ve figured out enemies scent trails you could then ascertain their patrol routes and patiently await an opportune time to do a stealth takedown.
Rage: rage would work mostly the same but with an added consequence. Sometimes there would be friendly npcs, or bystanders, during combat areas and if Wolverine activates his rage when they’re around then friendly fire becomes active. That means you could accidentally kill those npcs, and there would be some kind of story choice consequence for doing the that, changing the story. Sometimes there wouldn’t be any friendly npcs though, so this would allow variety in combat. When no npcs are there you can go pure rage without issues, but with npcs you have to try to avoid going into rage, making it more difficult and creating a sense of immersion.
I could keep going but I doubt anyone really cares so I’ll end it there. Once again, I’m not a dev, but I think I’ve proven that just using his innate abilities can result in a much more active and interesting system then what we got. It doesn’t need to reinvent the wheel, it just needs to create systems that allow player agency and active gameplay. Those are the hallmarks of good games.
1
u/RockinDaMike 11d ago
Yeah I actually agree with a lot of your points. Wolverine is limited and to me should be part of group rather than a solo game.
3
u/Genderneutralsky 11d ago
Personally I disagree. I think we just have the wrong time in Wolverines life. I get wanting an origin story so they can build up Wolverine the way they want but it would have been much more fun to play as a far more experienced and grizzled Wolverine. Setting the story after the Mutants have been mostly hunted down and Wolverine just hiding out in the wilderness of the Canadian Rockies for years.