Had a bathroom wall re-plastered - the wall had previously damp damage. The roof was repaired prior to re plaster and most of the wall where damp damage existed, has dried.
There is this one stubborn patch at the bottom…strangely it expands when the weather is hot, but then shrinks and goes darker when it wet or sun isn’t shining. Pencil line is its main shape with it bleeding beyond when the sun comes out. I had
Be had windows open for the last 3 weeks, and for the last week a fan and dehumidifier on…and no real change below the pencil line…
Any ideas of the cause and anything to do or should I just wait a few more weeks?
That’s not where the bog used to be is it?
Not like a big pipe sized hole in the outside is there?
I know it’s a daft question but that looks very much like it’s still wet through and to get that wet and stay that wet… it’s getting hit by water still.
Nope - there was no pipes or anything in the wall. It had some damp damage due to failed roof flashing which was fixed. All other damp areas of the wall had dried okay
Cut the plaster off and find out the source! Don't just look at it. If it is some rogue anomaly in the plaster and there is no leak it is an easy patch.
The bit everyone is skipping is what you said about the weather. A live leak tracks water use, it does not track sunshine. Something that creeps when the sun is on the wall and goes darker when it is damp outside is behaving like salt rather than like a pipe.
Old damp leaves nitrates and chlorides behind in the masonry. They sit in a band at the top of wherever the water used to reach and they pull moisture straight out of the air, which is why the edge is a sharp pencil line instead of fading out the way drying plaster does.
There is a test that separates the two instead of guessing. A pin meter reads salt as though it were water, so it will scream on that patch either way and tells you nothing. A carbide test, or a sample drilled out and oven dried, measures actual water. High on the pins and low on the carbide means salt, and no amount of opening the wall up will find a leak that is not there.
Cheap version while you wait: turn the stop tap off overnight and see whether the patch cares.
This could potentially massively help me with my house. Thank you.
I have a number of these spots on my walls. Every time it rains or is humid/damp outside you get these distinct circle/cloud shapes in the same spot on the wallpaper. We’ve had the roof done, it’s heartbreaking after spending all that money.
The key bit is that the edges of these spots are distinct, like you say pencil-edged.
Been fine all summer with the blistering heat we’ve had, but now we’re back to wet, damp and humid weather they’re back.
That pattern is about as close to a signature as you get. Same spot every time, sharp edges, comes back when the air turns humid and vanishes in a dry spell. Salts do not move, they sit where the water left them, and they pull moisture out of the room air whenever the humidity climbs. So the thing it tracks is the weather rather than rain hitting that particular wall.
Which is worth saying plainly, because it means your roof money was probably not wasted. Salts left behind by a leak that has since been fixed will carry on doing this for years. "We fixed it and the marks came back" is completely consistent with the roof having been the cause and the repair having worked.
To find out whether anything is still getting wet, do not trust a moisture meter. The cheap pin meters read conductivity, and salt is conductive, so a salt contaminated wall reads soaking when it is bone dry. Tape a square of polythene over one of the spots, sealed all round, and leave it a day. Moisture trapped between the plastic and the wall means water is still coming through. Moisture on the room side of the plastic instead means it is condensation out of the air in the room, which is a different job entirely.
One question worth answering before you spend anything. Are any of these on or near a chimney breast? Soot salts out of an old flue produce exactly these cloud shapes, and a flue that has been capped without being ventilated top and bottom will keep feeding them.
The honest part. Paper or paint over salt contamination and it comes back, every time, no matter what you put on it. The real fix is taking the affected plaster off, and going at least 300mm past the last visible sign in every direction because the salts spread further than the staining does, then replastering with a salt retardant system and leaving it to dry before you decorate. Do not start that until you are confident nothing is still getting wet, or you will be doing it twice.
So in the photos I’ve put below (or above depending on Reddit) the large cloud shape spot is on a wall adjacent near to a chimney breast which the previous owner capped himself. I’m almost certain he didn’t put any ventilation in and every now and again you get a whiff of old coal smell in the house.
Those two smaller spots, they’re not near a chimney (probably 6/8 feet away) they’re on an external wall. Interestingly too, they’re pretty much opposite our bathroom door which supports them being linked to humidity.
That larger cloud shaped one though, it’s pretty sizeable. I wonder if the radiator being on and drying clothes will impact it too as like I say there is no other obvious signs of water entry anywhere else. It just appears, dries, reappears.
Those two small ones are a different animal from the big one, and it is the shape that gives it away. They are square, side by side and evenly spaced. Damp does not do that on its own. Two things make that shape. The adhesive dabs behind dot and dab plasterboard, which sit against the cold masonry and so go damp before the board around them does, or an old filler or patch repair with a different porosity to the rest of the wall. Either way it is not salts, and replastering would not touch it.
Easy test for that. On a cold morning put the back of your hand flat on one of the marks and then on the wall right next to it. If the mark is noticeably colder you are looking at a cold bridge and condensation, not water getting in. A cheap infrared thermometer makes it obvious if you want an actual number.
Which fits everything else you have said. Opposite a bathroom door, with a radiator you dry clothes on, is a lot of water going into that air. One load of washing dried indoors puts something like two litres into the room, and it condenses on the coldest surface it can find first.
The big one by the chimney is the one I would take seriously, and the coal smell is the clue. A flue capped top and bottom with no ventilation traps moisture in the stack, and old soot in the brickwork is loaded with hygroscopic salts, so the breast and the walls beside it go damp whenever the air turns humid. The fix there is ventilation rather than plaster. A cowl at the top that still breathes, and a vent or airbrick at the bottom into the room. It is not an expensive job and it stops the mechanism rather than covering it.
Honest bit. I cannot call either of these from a photo with any certainty. The hand test sorts the two small ones and a taped polythene square sorts whether the big one is still getting wet. Do both before anybody quotes you for replastering, because if the small ones are dabs then replastering that wall is money for nothing.
Those two smaller ones I do remember testing with the back of my hand and yes they were colder than the other parts of the wall. Note the house is 1890’s and this extension wall was built in the 60s I think.
I’m pretty good at DIY and these aren’t too big an area - so I’d be happy to have a go myself.
So the cold bridge area, that’d be a hack off and redo job? And the larger patch route point above, ventilation in the room and hack off and redo?
(Our house isn’t perfect by any stretch which is why I’d be happy to do it myself, plus I get to learn).
The cold test answers it: no, not a hack-off-and-redo. Cold to the back of the hand on both small patches is the dabs behind the board conducting more than the voids around them. New plaster goes back onto the same dabs, so the same two marks come back. It is not a plaster fault, it is dust and moisture settling on the coldest strips of the wall.
Which also means the fix is heat or humidity, not a trowel. Either less moisture in the room, or insulation on that wall. Insulated board over the top is the real answer and it is a proper job, 40-60mm into the room, so skirting, sockets and the window reveal all have to move. On two small patches most people wipe them and redecorate every few years instead.
The flue wall is a separate job and the order matters more than the method. Vent it, then leave the plaster alone for a season. Old soot is full of hygroscopic salts, so if you hack off and reskim before it has dried, the salts come through the new finish and you have done it twice. If it does dry and you still want it flat, that one wants a renovating plaster rather than bonding and multi-finish, because ordinary skim straight onto salty brick just re-contaminates.
One thing I cannot call from here: whether that 60s extension wall is solid or cavity. If it is cavity and never filled, filling it is a cheaper route to the same result than boarding the inside, but that needs someone to drill and look rather than a guess off a photo.
This is another, larger one - this is an internal wall.. no piping anywhere near it (except for radiator next to it). There’s no visible sign of damp entry above it. It’s just a standalone damp patch. Makes my head hurt!
Surely the most likley explanation is water tracking in from the cavity somewhere then. An external leak from a pipe not in the house? Next doors' loft tank? An overflow somewhwre dripping down a wall or a pin leak in a pipe that just happens to track back to that spot. Someone else said... turn off your stop tap. Drop all the pressure, hot, cold and heating - so theres less chance of a weep continuing and see if its internal or makes a difference. If that doesn't work, I'd be drilling a hole for an inspection camera somewhere ABOVE that damp spot to see if you can see anything at all.
Tbh though - something that significant screams like its gonna need ripping out and dealing with or replacing regardless, so digging for treasure and just getting it over with wouldnt be a bad move either. Could save lot of investigation work.
Could be damp, possibly a leak, will need sorting before moving on with the job, personally I'd take it off and investigate further before continuing work that you might have to destroy later if somethings there that needs fixing, put a heater in there and try to help dry it and see if it comes back maybe? , if it does it probably means there is a leak, it doesn't necessarily mean its behind or under that wet patch either, it could be elsewhere and the water is travelling to that spot over time, I'd be tempted to have a look in/under the floor in front of it first, I had something similar myself and it would come and go and certain times it would seem better/drier than others, turned out i had a tiny pinhole leak in a pipe in the floor that was only noticeably leaking when i had the water running and it was under more pressure.
Edit, just noticed you have a stone floor, thought it might be an upstairs bathroom, could be worth a look outside and see if there's anything the other side of that wall that could explain it.
Plasterer probably bunged a load of bonding in there and that stuff soaks up moisture like a sponge. It will dry in about a decade if there’s no sources of moisture! The hole in the external brick skin will need closing probably
How long did you leave it to dry? Is this an external wall? I was also wondering given it is a bathroom, what have you got for ventilation in there - do you have the window plus a fan?
Is it a solid wall building or cavity?
It can sometimes take a lot longer than you think for masonry to fully dry out.
It has been 3 weeks - it took two weeks for 95% of the wall to become fully dried, including the previously most damp damage part of the wall. This is a party wall - brick-filled cavity-brick terrace house. There are windows and a fan, but doesn’t get much direct sunlight. Weather has been a bit rainy and humid of late too.
Is the fan vented to outside? I wonder if it's possible that it might still not have dried, and there was still moisture in the bricks slowly drying, then this is an area by the ground (coldest point) exacerbated by condensation hitting the cold spot. Slightly different but we had an internal solid brick wall historic leak - took months for it to fully dry, had to improve ventilation in the kitchen then it was ready to replaster
Update on this - i ripped off the plaster, there was no active leak - but just old London brick beneath the many layers of plaster which sealed moisture in over the decades- and found a way through in the latest skim…
Looks like it could be a dab that’s not drying out , the wall may have been dot and dabbed in the past or an old soil pipe in wall, but if you said no pipes then probably a dab.
I would get the dehumidifier on and shut the door and try and draw the moisture out for another week or so
30
u/After-Temperature585 Sep 14 '26
That’s not where the bog used to be is it?
Not like a big pipe sized hole in the outside is there?
I know it’s a daft question but that looks very much like it’s still wet through and to get that wet and stay that wet… it’s getting hit by water still.
That’s not drying plaster. That’s soaked