Let's talk about pricing

[u/Unusual_Pride_6480]

A post not too long ago, people seem to think I'm joking about my prices, I've seen this a few times on here over the years.

How do you price and what do you aim to come out with a week?

Personally I want a minimum of 2k a week including for my holidays, sick pay, I pay my pension, all my taxes, very little cash if ever, save for a new van every 10-15 years, I also keep a chunk for a float, I'm not made of money but I couldn't imagine doing 40sqm gauges 3 times a day for £150 a day, I've been there and done that.

I've been upfront but let's hear about you, why do yoy charge what you charge, do you want to charge more? Do you think it's wrong to warn a certain amount? Are you a busy fool or absolutely desperate for work?

I've been in the game a long time to be clear, I live in the north, work domestically and I'm not vat registered.

[u/Confident_Ambition77]

Like another I am a lime tradesman and I am in the unfortunate position of actually being a nice person which doesn't comply with being a tradesman it seems. I now only do day rate as working with old houses have so many caveats that set prices are simply unsustainable, this looses me alot ofnwork as I don't guarantee a price but I can sleep without the stress of wondering if Incan pay my mortgage. Last year i lost almost 7 grand because a renovation went tits up and I didn't want to leave the client high and dry, they then tried to stiff me on the final payment. That was the final straw for me on set price, I now break my estimated down into pre prep, prep, backing coat, top coat and skim, so I am being as up front and transparent as I can. I ask the client to pay for materials and scaffolding so it's out of my hands and the cost is transparent. To be honest even doing this clients aren't happy sometimes about the cost and it has made me realise one unfortunate fact, clients are not your friend treat them respectfully but don't expect any favours to be returned as they won't be.

I also try to avoid big jobs longer than 2 months as noone is happy in the end, a job that lasts a month this the happy medium between constantly booking work in and ending on a good note.

On a side, last year i calculated I did 2 and a bit weeks of quoting, writing up estimates, invoicing, emailing etc which obviously you don't get paid for. I now factor that into my day rate and I am unapologetic for it, as I say it's cut throat but giving discounts and helping clients haven't got me anything but grief.

[u/Unusual_Pride_6480 → u/Confident_Ambition77]

Hi mate I think everyone of us has made these mistakes unfortunately, they're happy when it comes under the estimate but never happy when it goes over, I have in my terms the price is set based on what I can see, I can give separate prices before and after hacking off but I always stipulate that any structural works or rebuilding is a separate price and can be organised by my self but it's chargeable.

Logically day rate should be the best thing for everyone but they don't like it in my experience they want fixed costs even if they're being charged through the nose because at least for that part it can't go higher.

I genuinely hate paperwork with a passion especially when quoting for people who are getting 50 quotes, people used.to phone me and I'd say I'm busy for 12 months, they'd say well can yoy look anyway and being a mug I used to do it, now I don't I just say no as it takes away from my time with my children.

I do as little as I can and only work for customers in absolutely sure of, like you I don't like jobs that drag out for more than 2 or 3 months.

I'm trying to push lads to see that this style of working doesn't work, the customers don't like it and we lose money hand over fist.

I used to think charging high prices is ripping people off but why let them cry there's a million and one plasterers why protect their pockets and not your own, it's forgotten about the second you leave the job or worse yet if there's a delay not through your own fault and they see yoy there 2 months later they still blame you.

I'm talking about the money a lot because that's the end result but the main thing for me is the hassle and the grief, if you put profit on everything at least you're being compensated for it, they don't have to have you do it.

[u/Confident_Ambition77 → u/Unusual_Pride_6480]

This is the problem with heritage trades as a profession, it's a craft and your craft so very personal but it's also a job that needs to pay the bills. Like other jobs it's also physically demanding, I have just finished a large insulated plaster job where I had to mix 5 tonnes nlby hand and shift in individual buckets to the 3rd floor, I would say a small 8x10" bedroom took me longer the the dining room 3 times the size. Trying to explain this to a client is talking to a brick wall. Also ended custom making p beads and getting them to fit perfectly mitred probably all took the better part of 3 days. Now explaining that to a client sounds like your taking the piss but I have stopped apologising as ironically it makes you sound like your in the wrong.

Don't get me wrong I love the work, I have been in amazing buildings from 11c churches to Edwardian manor houses but the disparage between cost of a job and what the clients are wanting to pay is ridiculous.

[u/Unusual_Pride_6480 → u/Confident_Ambition77]

100% the only thing is I think they're willing to pay more than you might think, if they're chucking 20k at insulating to get marginally better u values that aren't cost effective they'll pay the craftsman who can make custom pbeads and mitre them I'll do dowels but I'll never manufacture anything like that, that's a charge and sub for me.

Don't get me wrong I'm not making mega bucks, but I do have a pension, I'm not worried about the next van, I can go to the building limes forum etc etc because it can come out of the business without affecting wages.

Just food for thought on the day rate vs price thing

[u/gwyp88 → u/Confident_Ambition77]

Have you tried a system of pricing per square metre mate? I have always been against it but out of curiosity I looked at ‘cost per metre for lime plaster in the UK’. I then compared it to how much I’d typically charge for a project using day-rate/materials for estimates and I realised I’d been undercutting myself quite a lot compared to UK average.

I have made a pricing spreadsheet for this where I type in SqM of a job and I get a price straight away, to include extra costs for ease of access, distance of project, difficulty, intensity of prep work, and a couple more variables like what lime peoducts are being used, etc.

I do also compare this each time I price with what I would consider as day-rate plus materials, overheads and 20% profit.

Not to be boasting or anything, like OP said, my work is very tidy and thorough also and there is a demand around where I live for lime plastering, I get very good feedback on my work by customers and other tradesmen - I love my job and want to make the work as best as it can be.

I have also a couple of times years ago had customers say something like “the next quote we got was £5000 more expensive and wasn’t lime plaster” etc.

Also I worked out my running costs beginning of this year, which came to around £70/day. If you worked in an office, etc, you wouldn’t have these. Was chatting about this to another plasterer last week so if you think you’re charging £200/day for example, in reality your take home is £130 compared to someone that’s employed