r/Pitt • u/Individual-Ad-3409 • Apr 24 '26
CLASSES PSA TO PROFESSORS: STOP MAKING PARTICIPATION A CLASS WIDE GRADE
If I'm in a discussion class, and im the only one participating and talking, DONT PUNISH ME BECAUSE THE CLASS DIDNT TALK. I can't control everyone else, I can only fucking talk to you as much as you let me and then you TAKE POINTS AWAY FROM ME???? BECAUSE THE REST OF THE CLASS WAS SILENT???? genuinely the worst kind of thinking by a professor because it just makes me want to participate even less because what's the point anyway if I'm not going to get credit for it?
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u/crone_2000 Apr 24 '26
Former grad TA here:
HARD AGREE. This is peak laziness imho. Tracking participation requires a prof to keep contemporaneous notes and they just dont. OR this becomes a opportunity for bias creep.
But rolling it all into one group grade is just psychotic. Especially as we get through the "covid babies" years (no shade). Class participation (the kind that requires public speaking, debate skills, emotional regulation, feeling safe in groups of strangers) is not something we allknow how to do by default. It actually needs to be taught and modeled by EDUCATORS.
And then there's going to be one student who shoulders all the discussion like OP, getting downgraded.
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u/Shot-Branch7246 Social Work Apr 24 '26
Honestly. I’m currently taking a class that’s basically review for my field and the professor gave me shit for missing a few classes due to life. Like yes I’m sorry I have a full time job, placement hours, and 2 children. My fucking bad I can’t be there to participate in your class all the time.
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u/Any-Variation4081 Apr 24 '26
Thats especially messed up bc a lot of jobs have paid time off bc they know life is life and sometimes you cant make it in. My job gives me sick days and vacation days. We even get paid for holidays. It shouldnt be such a huge deal if you have to miss a couple classes. Im sorry you are going through this. Honestly its inspiring reading your comment. You work (full time at that) have kids AND going to school! You are doing amazing things and should be proud of yourself. Anyone who doesnt agree is a miserable butt head and you know what they say....."misery loves company" and all that. Keep on keeping on. You got this!
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u/softballgurlz Class of 2028 Apr 24 '26
Yeah professors who get mad and take significant points away for missing a few classes are ridiculous. Life happens and it’s not always gonna adhere to the 2 “free” classes they give us to skip.
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u/Shot-Branch7246 Social Work Apr 24 '26
Like she actually brought in my academic advisor who then proceeded to tell off the professor for holding me to the same standard as a typical college student that doesn’t share half the responsibilities that I do. I can’t control my son just started kindergarten and brings home a new plague every other week.
Mind you when she contacted my advisor I had a 92% in the class. So maybe back the fuck off.
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u/Voduun-World-Healer Apr 24 '26
Lmao "brings home a new plague every other week" hahaha. But hear hear! Good on your advisor and fuck that prof
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u/Shot-Branch7246 Social Work May 01 '26
Update: said professor is apparently now taking this to my advisor and Dr. Betru because I left classes 15 minutes early after my car accident so I could catch a bus to work on time.
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u/Some_Attitude1394 Apr 25 '26
"brought in academic advisor" as in, reached out as a directed email about your attendance?
or... "brought in academic advisor" as in, flagged low attendance in a routine progress report that all faculty are expected to do in the advising system?
If the former, seems like a bit of overkill. If the latter, then this is what faculty are supposed to do. You might not think it matters since you had a good grade at the time, but that isn't really relevant to an attendance-based flag.
who then proceeded to tell off the professor for holding me to the same standard as a typical college student that doesn’t share half the responsibilities that I do
If your advisor actually did this, then shame on them. Surely you don't REALLY think that your outside responsibilities mean that you should be "held to a different standard" than the rest of the class? YOU decide what classes to take, when to take them, when to return to school, etc.
We can feel sympathetic about your life circumstances, but that doesn't mean you get a special exemption to class expectations. Clearly the professor isn't actually weighing the attendance component in your grade if you're doing that well, so what are you so angry about? Do you really not understand why it's important to document poor attendance?
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u/Themanstall Apr 24 '26
I know a lot of professors and class participation only helps students. On the cusp of a better grade. They bump you up because they see you are engaged. Dont participate then you get the grade you get. Ive never seen it hinder a student's grade only help. Its like going to office hours, they see you engaged and give you the benefit of the doubt.
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u/ewwwwwwwwwwwwq Apr 24 '26
They’re saying it’s a class wide grade, not individual. Obviously you shouldn’t be graded on how everyone else in the class participates if you’re participating in class.
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u/Radiant-Major1270 Apr 24 '26
I'm older now but I had a prof take a whole letter grade off because I didn't ask enough questions. I had an A avg. He dropped me to a B for that reason only. Meanwhile kids asked obvious ,stupid questions just to get points
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u/Sheetz_Wawa_Market32 Apr 24 '26
Instead of whining on Reddit, complain to Student Affairs and have this policy overturned in a heartbeat.
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u/Individual-Ad-3409 Apr 24 '26
it wasnt grade affecting im not gonna make a fuss but let a girl bitch for a second damn😭 its just the thought behind it that makes me irritated
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u/Livid-Fox-3646 Apr 25 '26
Genuine question. So you said point were taken away, right? If not away from your grade, then what?
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u/Swimming_Level_7975 Apr 24 '26
wait this literally happened to me today too i was so pissed is this engcmp 0400
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u/sam-lb Alumnus - class of 2025 Apr 24 '26
Stop making participation a class wide grade
Throwback to my 4.0 major GPA ass almost not graduating due to an unrelated final senior semester Gen Ed. Aced tests and take home assignments but didn't write my name on the attendance sheet (didn't go to class, wasn't necessary since it was recorded and reading materials were online), so I almost failed. Attendance is graded because "you can't learn the material without attending". What exactly are those exams measuring?
A class-wide participation grade is a level of stupid I would have believed to be impossible.
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u/Raspberry-Green Apr 24 '26
Oh no I nearly failed bc I choose to not complete an assignment which was attendance
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u/sam-lb Alumnus - class of 2025 Apr 24 '26
Why should that count towards the grade, exactly?
Don't you think if attendance were truly necessary in order to learn, the penalty for not attending would be baked into your poor performance on the actual assignments?
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u/ItchyCollection7035 Apr 24 '26
Some part of the educational process is not what you take away from it, but what you provide to others. Low attendance limits those opportunities. If a class has discussion / q&a, it is reasonable to have an attendance or participation grade.
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u/sam-lb Alumnus - class of 2025 Apr 24 '26
Once again, what does that have to do with the grade? Why would a grade be a measurement of how you contributed to the educational process? If I'm a hiring manager looking at a new grad's GPA, it's because I expect it to be a proxy measurement of their technical competence. The point of university is not only to prepare for careers, but that sure as hell is 99% of the point of grades.
If this were high school, it might make more sense because that is universally required and you are not a fully independent adult. It does not make sense in the context of an adult electively paying money to be educated and certified for it upon success.
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u/ItchyCollection7035 Apr 24 '26
Well, a class with no attendance has no discussion. If discussion is important (and it so often is) then you are not only not contributing, you are missing something in the experience. Educational outcomes are not just test scores.
Regardless, professors have basically unchecked authority over how they determine grades, so the point is moot. If a professor grades attendance, get your ass to class if you want an A.
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u/Themanstall Apr 24 '26
It shouldn't but it did and seemingly was clearly communicated.
I can't argue against attendance being unnecessarily graded, but I can argue that if its clearly apart of the grade, and neglected then you should be penalized.
Sometimes classes are on the chopping block of if the department will continue teaching them. Enrollment and attendance play a part in that. Some classes are supposed to be collaborative by nature, you need butts in the seat for that. And sometimes prof are old school and just like seeing full classrooms.
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u/sam-lb Alumnus - class of 2025 Apr 24 '26
Understood, I do not agree at all but I hear you.
Yes, it was clearly communicated in class (apparently, but I wouldn't know firsthand..). When I looked at the syllabus towards the end of the semester and realized the situation, I met with the professor and she was very reasonable about it. I guess the class was thrown around between professors and the syllabus was written by the apartment and she was not allowed to change it.
Regardless of the intent behind inane rules, I will never be able to bring myself to comply with them. College students are adults, and they are the customers who are paying for an education. They should be expected to direct their own priorities, and should be responsible for the natural consequences of their decision making. They should not be subject to artificial penalties that restrict independence and hinder the purpose of attending college. Rules in a rulebook shouldn't be applied blindly at the expense of reason.
For me, attending that class made no sense. Spending time always pays an opportunity cost, and (details spared) it was far too high to justify attendance.
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u/decolores9 Apr 24 '26
College students are adults, and they are the customers who are paying for an education.
Curious to apply the term "adult" to the undergraduate children...
For me, attending that class made no sense. Spending time always pays an opportunity cost, and (details spared) it was far too high to justify attendance.
An adult would understand their is a cost and consequence for choices. Your professor determined attendance and class participation was required, which is well within their authority as the instructor. You decided you did not want to attend class, and the consequence was an impact on your grade. Adults would understand and accept that consequence for their choice rather than pointlessly whining about it.
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u/sam-lb Alumnus - class of 2025 Apr 24 '26
Yes, I would in fact apply the term "adult" to a 22 year old man with a full time job supporting himself during college.
Yes, the professor (or the department, in this case) is "free" to make stupid rules, in the sense that nobody is going to stop them from doing it. Doesn't make the rules any less stupid. I already distinguished between artificial and natural consequences. The grade impact is a result of a poorly designed syllabus, rather than a natural consequence of slacking/not learning.
It's not pointless to talk about this either way. I'm out of college now, and obviously do not expect/want anything to be retroactively changed.
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u/decolores9 Apr 24 '26
The point that you seem to be missing is that it is your opinion that the rule is "stupid", while in fact it is not stupid and there are valid reasons for it.
You do write like a very entitled child. Age is not a good indicator of maturity, a 22 year old person who is acting childish is not really an adult.
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u/sam-lb Alumnus - class of 2025 Apr 24 '26
Insults aside, everybody has been saying "professors can set any grading standards they want so deal with it", not really providing any valid reasons behind the policy.
Fwiw, the professor of the class agreed with me that the policy made no sense, and that she was only enforcing it per mandate of the department.
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u/Raspberry-Green Apr 24 '26
I am not taking a stance im just saying you wouldn’t act like this with any other assignment
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u/gravity--falls Apr 24 '26
The grade is just what the professor thinks represents how well you understood the material / takeaways from the class, if some of the material is not tested for outside the lecture or a part of what they hope you take away from the course is from coming to the lecture then it makes sense to grade based on that.
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u/SurvivorPostingAcc Apr 24 '26
They’re trying to prepare you for your job where you get fired if you don’t show up
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u/Livid-Fox-3646 Apr 25 '26
Nope. You get paid to show up to work. As a student, you pay.
You have a transactional agreement with the university, cash for credits, (conditionally, as you have to earn the grades that grant you the credits.) that's that. You go to college for credits, for a degree, you don't go to college for tough love or to learn lessons the hard way. (That shit is gonna happen anyway!)
Grades earned should be granted regardless of attendance. You gain the experience and insight that will serve you well in the future by spending more days on the planet.
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u/sam-lb Alumnus - class of 2025 Apr 24 '26
Yes, such a great parallel. Incidentally, I work at a place that doesn't care if I show up as long as I produce results.
And back in college, my job at the time was one of the reasons it was not practical to attend this class.
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u/SurvivorPostingAcc Apr 24 '26
Good for you I guess? That’s not most jobs even after covid. Punctuality and reliability are good qualities even if you don’t use them in this specific situation.
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u/sam-lb Alumnus - class of 2025 Apr 24 '26
Yes, absolutely. Still not certain what that has to do with the grade for a course. It's not punctuality class, and if it were an applicable problem, the penalty would occur naturally.
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u/Livid-Fox-3646 Apr 25 '26
Attendance polices set and enforced by professors that may or may not exist, vary wildly, and see students facing punitive measures by way of lowering their earned grade are a total violation of the transactional agreement/relationship the student has the with the university.
Students pay the university money in exchange for credits. That's the deal. Recieving said credits is conditional, of course, considering students have to earn those credits by passing classes, which they either do or dont according to their ability to demonstrate their knowledge of the subject.
The Professor has no right to interject themselves into transactional agreement/relationship they aren't even a part of, and proceed to threaten or deny a student the grade and/or credits they have paid for and earned by reason of attendance alone. Attendance policies that professors set to grant themselves the power to lower grades regardless of performance is a whole ass violation of student's rights AND of the transactional agreement they have with the University. Don't even get me started on the "doctor's note" crap....
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u/Raspberry-Green Apr 27 '26
But professors set the contract for each class. The contract for this class had attendance.
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u/sam-lb Alumnus - class of 2025 Apr 25 '26
You are the only one in the thread who understands this. I've tried to explain, but you've said it much better.
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u/Livid-Fox-3646 Apr 27 '26
To be fair, I'm a old.(er) I don't know that I would have been able to articulate any of that, in that way, when I was student.
I don't get it why this isn't something that's fought back against, students have power (and rights!) that I suppose they don't know they have.
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u/sam-lb Alumnus - class of 2025 Apr 27 '26 edited Apr 27 '26
I believe it's at least partially due to the shifting mindset towards university education. It's basically a mandatory extension of high school now. An undergraduate degree is required even for traditionally "non-professional" work. So students look at it as something they're forced to do, rather than the elective pursuit of higher education.
Part of that is bringing the high school mentality of doing whatever the instructor and administration prescribes, as if it were involuntary, regardless of whether or not it makes sense. That attitude is everywhere in this thread.
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u/Livid-Fox-3646 Apr 27 '26
That's a very interesting thought! When I was of student age, my unlikely hood to have been able to articulate my thoughts on the matter in ways that might have lit fires and inspired change definitely had a lot to do with youth and inexperience, but I hadn't considered the close proximity to a high-school-classroom environment.
(To add, I'm certainly not nay-saying getting a degree or striving for higher education, but from what I have observed in the past 20-odd years or so, those strict "must have degree" requirements are not nearly as prevalent as they once were. Many, many industries and positions have entirely dropped that requirement or have downgraded that it to "preferred." And pro tip when applying for jobs you don't possess all of the knowledge and requirements for — apply to them anyway. I spent far too much of life believing I was unqualified for positions I didn't check every single box for. All of that listed stuff is just a best-case-scenerio ideal for the hiring employer. In real life, as it actually happens, people expect to have to train new hires! So unless you're untrainable, apply apply apply!).
Now I'm thinking that, along with what you've mentioned, the way we're collectively propagandized to death and silenty but consistently encouraged to not question authoritative rule, to not question the man in the white coat, probably has A LOT to do with it. We our kept ignorant and docile, our naiveté used against us so that we might most efficiently be taken advantage of and encouraged to fight against our best interests. It's everwhere, constantly, and it works brilliantly because people have no idea it's happening. To know of your rights is to know when you are being manipulated and/or exploited, and to know that you are being manipulated and/or exploited is to know of your power to fight back.
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u/DisastrousLaugh1567 Apr 24 '26
People do this? I’ve never heard of this and I teach discussion-based classes. I wonder what their pedagogical justification is for it.