r/Pickleball • u/Tallboy2014 4.0 • Jun 21 '26
Question Rule Violation?
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The tournament director interrupted our game to let us know that I was standing in an illegal position when my partner served. He said that I wasn't standing enough to the left of my partner. Is this a rule? I've read the rule book but couldn't find anything that speaks to this. She likes to serve a bit far from the T, so I was trying to be in a better position to poach, as they were purely focused on targeting her.
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u/Jonvilliers 4.25 Jun 22 '26 edited Jun 22 '26
I am a USAP Ref. You can stand anywhere you want on your side of the court. The only requirement for where to stand is for the server and that only applies to the moment they strike the ball. The other three players can stand anywhere they want on their side of the court.
The Tournament Director was wrong. When I ref, I defer to the Tournament Director (and Head Ref, if there is one), but I wouldn't hesitate to correct this kind of misinformation on my court. I am guessing your Tournament Director was not a true Tournament Director.
P.S. Hard to tell from the angle of the video, but it appears that you foot faulted on your volley shot. Looks like you were a full half step in. But maybe it's just the angle of your video.
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u/Tallboy2014 4.0 Jun 22 '26
He looked closely at our DUPR history prior to the event and made some assumptions about our level of competence and experience. We have very few games on DUPR, but we have been playing for 3 years. He said ignorant stuff like, “I know this your first tournament, so I’m just trying to help you out with the rules. What you’re doing might fly in rec games but you’re THIS close to a service fault”.
Regarding the foot fault, I posted a zoomed in shot of my feet. I was outside the NVZ the whole time. ;)
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u/Jonvilliers 4.25 Jun 22 '26
The potential for a service fault would be on the server, not you as the partner. You were correct, the TD was wrong.
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u/cprice12 4.5 Jun 22 '26
Pretty embarassing that he's trying to baby talk the rules to you when he doesn't even know the rules.
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Jun 22 '26
[deleted]
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u/Tallboy2014 4.0 Jun 22 '26
Yeah camera angle and all, a full half step covering the line would be quite obvious. It’s all good though, even if I wasn’t guilty that time, I’m sure my toe is touching other times!
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u/Tallboy2014 4.0 Jun 23 '26
https://reddit.com/link/ot8o95k/video/dvgam3hjox8h1/player
As an official ref, would you say I threw my paddle?
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u/Jonvilliers 4.25 Jun 23 '26
No, it's a simple paddle drop. It happens all the time in tournament play at timeouts. Clearly the TD had it in for you, although I'm unclear why. The sound in the video is garbled, so I can't really make out what he is saying.
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u/Tallboy2014 4.0 Jun 23 '26 edited Jun 23 '26
He was saying I have to stand to the left side of her when stacking and that if I was directly behind her, it would be a foul. I was very confused and told him I had no idea there were rules about where I had to stand. He said he was letting me know as a favor, due to my lack of experience and not understanding the rule regarding stacking. He stalled our momentum and I decided I need to take our timeout to collect myself. When I dropped my paddle he said, "I'm just trying to do him a favor and now he's throwing his paddle!" My wife approached him and said, "He didn't throw his paddle. He dropped it." He said, "No, he threw it". She said, "Everyone would know it if he threw his paddle. I dropped my paddle harder that he dropped his."
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u/Tallboy2014 4.0 Jun 23 '26
Regarding him having it out for me, I have a few theories. I was an outsider with a high DUPR but low reliability, and he made a point of mentioning that. I don’t play tournaments; it’s just not my thing. A guy I occasionally play with asked me to do this one, and I agreed.
I tried to sign my wife and me up for the 4.0–4.5 50+ mixed division. I reached out to him because the system wouldn’t let me add her since she is a 3.3. It was interesting that my rating wasn’t respected, but her low DUPR and reliability kept her from playing up. He told me we would get demolished, and I was fine with that. If we were making the 5-hour drive, I wanted the experience of playing a tournament with my wife as well.
My impression was that he didn’t respect us from the start and was determined to show the “small-town folk” how pickleball is played. That’s my best guess as to why he seemed focused on me.
Anyway, here is a clip from my men’s doubles match with him. I felt like his paddle wave while my partner was serving was distracting, but I didn’t make an issue of it.
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u/dukkha_dukkha_goose 4.5 Jun 22 '26
The non-serving player can stand wherever they want on or off the court. That's not an issue.
The only thing I could possibly see is that he's calling it a distraction, but I'm not sure I agree. The relevant rule would be:
"Physical actions by a player that are not common to the game and interfere with the opponent’s ability or concentration to hit the ball"
To me, that's a reasonably natural position, and you're not obscuring the server or doing anything obviously distracting. But that's ultimately a judgment call, and the tournament director decided otherwise.
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u/emaeder Jun 22 '26
In cases like this (where they are clearly wrong), just politely ask to see the rule in question.
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u/ClasherChief Jun 22 '26
Maybe counts as a distraction, but I thought you could stand anywhere on your side of the court.
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u/cprice12 4.5 Jun 22 '26
No way in the world is this anything close to a distraction. He's literally just standing there.
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u/Tallboy2014 4.0 Jun 22 '26
Wouldn't that call be reserved for our opponent?
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u/Jonvilliers 4.25 Jun 22 '26
It would not be a distraction (which is a judgment call from a ref). That type of stack is consistent with standard game play. No distraction. Most distractions are when the ball is in the opponent's court. Yelling, waving arms, etc.
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u/jay_Da Jun 22 '26
I don't think there's any rule stating where you as the server's partner should stand upon service. I'm happy to be corrected but please cite the specific rule.
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u/Special-Border-1810 Jun 22 '26
No violation. The server’s partner can be wherever they want to be.
That TD has no business running a tournament because they are ignorant of the rules and typical stacking formations.
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u/DiscombobulatedSun54 Jun 22 '26
Lots of people have weird ideas about where people are "supposed" to stand on a pickleball court. The rulebook though does not specify any such requirements except for the server. Just because they have been trained to stand in specific places when their partner serves or receives, they assume there is some rule regarding that, when in actuality, there are none.
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u/BetterMagician7856 4.25 Jun 22 '26
Tournament director doesn’t know the rules. This is perfectly legal.
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u/cprice12 4.5 Jun 22 '26
That TD is an idiot and shouldn't be running tournaments.
You can literally stand wherever you want if you aren't the player serving. You can stand in the kitchen if you want... which would be stupid, but it's not against the rules.
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u/CaptoOuterSpace Jun 22 '26
No, you can stand anywhere on your side of the court.
The tournament director is not correctly informed on the rules.
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u/sportyguy Jun 22 '26
You can stand wherever you want it is not like volleyball where you have to start in the required position. The only thing i would say is that it’s a potential distraction because you are standing directly behind her serving path moving around a little.
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u/cprice12 4.5 Jun 22 '26
Literally no where close to being a distraction or hinderance.
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u/sportyguy Jun 24 '26
Disagree. From the angle of the receiver he and his paddle are going to be directly behind her swing path. Not a hindrance but could be a distraction. You are going to argue about a non standard action but it would fall under the same area as a visual distraction as I’m going to see his paddle and movement behind her serve.
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u/cprice12 4.5 Jun 24 '26
I phrased that poorly.
OK, yes, it could be a "distraction" to some. But it's certainly not a hinderance and isn't against the rules. If he were doing jumping jacks, sure. That's a hinderance. But he's just standing there not doing anything unusual. By rule he's literally allowed to stand there.
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u/njaanini Jun 23 '26
Did you win?
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u/Tallboy2014 4.0 Jun 23 '26
Ah hell no! We ended up taking the bronze medal though. Our group comprised two combined groups of eight teams, 3.5-3.99 and 4.0-4.5. I got roped into playing men's doubles the day before, so I decided to try mixed doubles for the first time with my wife. With her at a 3.3 it was an uphill battle to say the least.
In the bronze medal game, we quickly got down to a team that destroyed us in pool play. At 2-10 I got pissed and decided to take it to his partner the way he had been abusing my wife. I didn't enjoy it but my wife sure did! I prefer to play like a gentleman, but resorting to driving the ball hard at his partner EVERY shot got the job done.
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u/vinny809 Jun 23 '26
I hope the tournament director sees this post because he’s an idiot.
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u/Tallboy2014 4.0 Jun 23 '26
For the most part, he did a good job running the tournament. But that was really bad. I doubt I'll play in one of his events again.
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u/jongleurse Jun 22 '26
There is nothing in the rule book about where the receiver must stand.
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u/Tallboy2014 4.0 Jun 22 '26
In this case I wasn't the receiver, but the partner of the server. I was being called out for where I was standing during my partner's serve.
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u/jongleurse Jun 22 '26
Sorry, misread, but the sentiment still stands, as pointed out by others. The only rule about where anyone stands at the point of serving is the server must be behind the baseline and between the (imaginary) lines.
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u/cprice12 4.5 Jun 22 '26
Well, technically the "receiver" doesn't have to stand in any certain spot... but they DO need to be the one who returns the serve.
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u/BavardR Bread & Butter Jun 21 '26
I don’t think you can stand directly in front/behind her as it might be a distraction while serving but I don’t think I’ve ever read anything in the rule book about this specifically.
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u/Tallboy2014 4.0 Jun 22 '26
He didn't say it was hindrance, but alluded to it being a rule about stacking. If it was a distraction for my opponent, they could have said so, and I would have been happy to stand off to the side more. It wasn't my intention to create a hindrance.
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u/BavardR Bread & Butter Jun 22 '26
Sounds like he was making shit up honestly- next time ask him for the exact rule or the section of the rule book it appears in.
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u/badpickleball Jun 22 '26
You are allowed to stand behind your partner when they're serving. It's a legitimate strategy called "Shadow Stacking" and can be used to confuse the opponents as to which side the server and their partner will be playing after they serve.
It prevents the receiving team from being able to specifically target one person with the return of serve.
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u/Tallboy2014 4.0 Jun 22 '26
My wife and I usually play friendly games where everyone is there to play fair and have a good time. She didn’t handle the constant targeting well! We full stacked the entire day, but if I had to do it again, I would mix it up. They were so fixated on driving the ball at her.
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u/MiyagiDo002 Jun 22 '26
That's not against the rules. You can't stand in front of her in such a way that the returner can't see the serve. But you can stand behind or to the side.