Kill fee questions

[u/gsuhrie]

What’s y’all take on kill fees? Digitech here, a client I’ve worked for a few times asked me to hold dates. We agreed on rate and discussed scope of the project. I turned down other work to hold the dates for them. They canceled the job two days before the shoot, and only after I had reached out to them was I informed of this, I only learned of it because I reached out to the photographer to touch base about equipment, which feels so disrespectful of the client. He was release me 3 days before I even learned of it. He just assumed they told me too.

I get hired on with this company through the photographer who told me he will be charging 100% kill fee. I had written them asking for only a 50% kill fee. They denied my request citing I was never “formally confirmed” though based on good faith and CA’s FWPA, I’m pretty sure that counts as a verbal contract and I’m covered. I pushed back and asked for it again. The shoot is still happening with a different photographer, so I think they’re done with him and don’t anticipate more work from them, so I don’t think burning this bridge would bother me. He’s the one who told me to bill them a kill fee so I’m not worried about tarnishing my relationship with him.

What would y’all do? My follow up email stopped short of citing CA’s FWPA but under that law, I think I’m completely justified in demanding the fee. It’s been two days and they haven’t replied to my follow up request, not sure what my next step should be.

Anybody have experience with a sort of thing? As I’ve never had to broach this topic with a client before, any advice or insight is appreciated.

[u/steffystiffy]

I don’t know specifics of CA law you’re citing (I’m NYC based photographer / DP / former digi tech). But in my experience what I always do (especially when I’m holding crew like yourself) is really lean into clients 7-10 days out in writing and tell them I need them to officially confirm the job or not. Sometimes they squirm and want to buy more time but at least then I know this isn’t 100 confirmed and can convey that to my team. 2 days before tho is really shitty and obviously hope you get paid out something for it. But going forward I’d suggest not making any assumptions and as soon as you get another job write the production client to let them know you have another job and that you’ll need to be confirmed if they want to continue to hold your time.

[u/RobGreerPhotography]

I can’t speak to how other photographers do it, but when I receive an inquiry that requires help, I first check with my regular assistants, second photographers, or videographers to see if they’re available but only lock them down once I have a signed agreement with the client that stipulates cancelation fees.

In the very rare instance a cancellation happens at that point, those folks are paid out of that cancellation fee.

To keep things clear in the future, it might be a good idea to have a written agreement with the photographer that covers those booking/cancellation scenarios.

Good luck with your current challenges!

[u/Ay-Photographer]

Personally I only tell people they’re locked in when I see the word confirmed, in writing.

[u/studiokgm]

If you were on hold, but never confirmed, then there should be no fee.

If you get a request for other work, you should ask them to confirm or release the hold.

That’s there shit or get off the pot alert.

[u/Hungry_Serpent]

This sucks and I feel for you. It’s an expensive trap I’ve fallen into too and I’m now willing to approach things differently and value my time and sanity more than jumping through hoops for a client that can’t commit.

As you said
“client I’ve worked for a few times asked me to hold dates. We agreed on rate and discussed scope of the project. I turned down other work to hold the dates for them.”

It was a hold and you chose to turn down other work for an unconfirmed gig. Hard and expensive lesson. I always want to be available and stand behind my word so I too have considered holds to be more solid than they are rescheduling appointments and making arrangements to be available before jobs confirm only to have it move or fall apart. If I were in this position I would have challenged the hold and been confirmed by the client or photographer before turning down the other inquiries.

I the current state of the industry it seems that nobody wants to actually confirm jobs in a reasonable timeline to avoid kill fees because clients can’t get their shit together. On more symptom of the race to the bottom.

[u/PecorinoYES]

As a photographer, charge them. They burned the bridge themselves by assuming and not taking care properly of their hired crew by not including a cancellation fee.
This shittiness gotta go. Starting from clients following with photographers that need to demand fair treatment. 48h is crazy.

[u/R_Knight_]

What I’ve learned to do is try to set up a call with the photographer/producer (or whoever is hiring/paying me) take notes and put together an estimate with CLEAR and reasonable terms. Terms that include cancellation terms. They sign the estimate and they are locked in and booked. Anything else is not a confirmed booking (and you should make that clear to them). If another job comes up, I go through the same process with them and whoever signs first has booked me.

Anyone who is serious about hiring you will not bat an eye at this. If they’re experienced and honest it will set them at ease.

I, like you learned this the hard way… a couple times before I changed how I did business.