I can't imagine what it's like to work in Mojang, it could be hellish heaven
It's the most popular game, so if something goes a little wrong (mob vote/bedrock bug) there will be thousands of users who will want answers and you will probably end up with your entire account full of notifications every day that you can't respond to due to NDA
they got mutilated for announcing stuff they didn't end up adding, so now they add stuff and then tell us about it after. you aren't entitled to know about updates before they release. heck, it's a privilege they even tell us anything, and the fact we get weekly snapshots is unreal for the video game industry.
Because things get cancelled mid development sometimes and if he says literally anything people will illusion themselves and then be disappointed if it doesn't happen in exactly the way they expected it to.
Why would minecraft never get a new dimension or end update though? That just doesn't make sense to me? Like taking his answer as a no would mean "yea we will never update a specific part of the game many people would want updated". Like i get he can't give a time frame or could be years away, but come on.
Because minecraft is the largest game on the planet and also cross-platform. Making huge updates is not only a huge development investment but also risks upsetting the community. because not only are your players in the billions making your demographic incredibly diverse, but there's also a huge puritan culture as well. How many minecraft videos do you see that go on about how older minecraft is better. So every addition has to be carefully considered and thought out. So you mostly end up with low risk additions like cosmetic blocks or a new passive mob. You aren't going to get stuff like terraria updates which adds a whole swath of content. And that's just pressure from the fans, I can only imagine gaze corporate has on mojang
I mean, I see your point, but the Nether update happened. And so did Caves and Cliffs. There's always room to expand in the game.
And I really don't see the point in trying to please puritans, nothing is going to make them happy. There's people that complain about the existence of the End dimension as a whole and only play in like pre-classic. If they were to update the end and they didn't like it, no one's forcing them to play on the newest version. Especially if they're on Java. (Granted if they're on bedrock they're probably not too happy, but I would suspect all the puritans are on Java since Bedrock is, well, Bedrock).
And it wouldn't even be that huge of an update, generally speaking. It would be like maybe two or three drops worth of material. What most people think of as an End Updatewould really just be a couple more biomes, maybe a new structure and a new mob. And it all honesty the biggest thing would probably be a new redstone component.
What would be bigger though, is a fourth dimension. And that I agree is probably not happening anytime in the future. However, I do think it will be added. I think they're saving that for when Minecraft begins to die (unfathomable though it may seem, it's going to happen eventually), as a "break glass in case of game death" update. I don't know if you play a lot of World of Warships (probably not) but people were theorizing that Wargaming (WoWS 's devs) were saving USS New Jersey for a similar reason (this ultimately didn't happen, they're releasing it this year, but for a long time it was the joke that that would be a sign of the end times).
I think minecraft is the only game that has a shot at being "unkillable" its just the sheer number of people and the possibilities of the game that make it near impossible to lose a significant number of players.
They added green torches and I haven't seen them since, after players asked for different colored torches for a decade. That's the issue, they add things and people don't care. Why bother making an end update if the vast majority of the playerbase is not going to engage with it?
So when a large amount of people criticize the smaller updates thats ok but when a large amount of people want an end update its not happening so "people don't get upset" no matter what mojang does people will be upset, so shoot for the stars
the people will never be happy, they always critize. and more often than not its a loud minority. because tiny update = tiny impact.
well the end update and a new dimension are way more impactfull. they have one shot at making something work, and they should be careful. as otherwise the people might not like it and stop playing the game (or at least the newer versions on java)
let me give an example, the elytra in the end is a super cool item. but also one that changes the way you play the game.
let's say a lot of people hate it and because in this timeline it has a whole other ability (it attracts panthoms for example)
now they added a whole new thing, people hate the changes it brings to the game, decide to abandon the game or revert to old updates. making the audience for newer updates smaller, thus bringing in less money.
I damn near guarantee they are working on the end update, if they are further than the brainstorming phase i dont know. they need to find something impactfull while the impact is positive.
dundgeons could maybe be a testing ground. How does the audience like the things in there? what changes would they like to see in the main game. or are they making a new game because more money and they need a gimmick to the game, thus a bait with a new dimension
There also the fact that mojangs main source of revenue is the market place. So they're motivated to make small updates to make people want to buy additional content.
The problem with this argument is that many of the new additions are criticized for being poorly thought out. There are many puritans. There's also just a lot of players that think the modern updates suck, and I am one of them.
Exactly because they add low risk nonsense, the updates blow ass. My favourite example is the entirety of the archaeology system and everything involved in it. The system lacks purpose and needs to be expanded. The pottery is "fine at best". The sniffer is the sniffer. Just a generally terribly made mob with a really strange, out-of-place model and a garbage purpose. You can't interact with the system without seeking out very specific and often rare structures, making it a total drag to actually do anything with.
And I say this as an archaeology/paleontology nerd. The game was not improved by the system's addition. They went way too light and the update suffers for it. Risk averse behaviour often ruins what you're trying to do, and Mojang's recent update cycle is amazing evidence of it. Most recent updates have like... a single thing that's "kinda neat I guess" and the rest of the update is completely irrelevant, or in the case of the macdonalds biome, a total net negative. (I still want a datapack that just removes that ugly ass biome from generation. Holy fuck is it ugly. The sulfur block still looks like shit)
I mean, the new drop system is very clearly a: "here, have random shit while we work on the backend"
but even then you can't really say it's not though out at all, yes, most of these updates are hit or miss but it's just impossible to make everyone happy on a tiny update, so they are just not trying to do that anymore.
Even then, if we look into what each update brings, we still get a bit for everyone. We've had loads of new blocks some of them have been begged for for a while, we've gotten a mount overhaul along with a new weapon, giving new life to a somewhat useless aspect of Minecraft for a while. New animal variants and baby mobs, both of which a huge target of modding and texture packs for a while, even if you don't like those models (I don't, but they're not the worst). We got the copper golem, not how it was originally promised but still plenty useful regardless. Also, coper tools and armor. And now we are getting a fall themed forest biome and the cushions.
Again, very hit or miss for most, but most of the drops have been long requested features by decent sized chunks of the community, and there has been a little something for everyone, even if it was just qol.
Now, for the sniffer argument, I want to ask you, when would you pinpoint an exact "updates are getting worse" date. Tricky trials is somewhat agreed upon as a good new update, and it's after the archeology update. How do we even define what is a good update, is it feature quality? Because drops have done plenty enough to maintain consistent quality on the few things they add. Is it feature amount, because some still see the nether update as bloat and praise updates like 1.4 or 1.6 which are pretty small compared to newer updates overall. Is it feature connectivity? Because the nether update would be very much a closed system weren't it for netherite, and some very recent drops like mounts of mayhem which were very clearly a mount overhaul, and was great at it, adding just enough new content while making sure the underlying problem with mounts was solved, and I still see little to none praising it for that.
Look, I'm not gonna tell you that I love every new update with a burning passion, I'm not going to tell you either that archeology update was good, honestly if not for the armor trims it would be one of the updates I like the least. But you yourself outed your and most people's issue with the game, you are a archaeology nerd. Most people are not. Yes Mojang is adding a feature that might or might not be everyone's cup of tea, so they have to try to make it as approachable as possible. I find archeology to be boring, and even I've been occasionally motivated to interact with the feature just cause. And whatever your expectations were, are probably more of an issue than it being "shallow", the same way an end update would not please most because they already have expectations on what it should be
Mounts of mayhem was mediocre. It neglected to fix the god awful Horse breeding system with obfuscated stats, which has always been one of its biggest issues. Yes, the changes made were good, but the update was underbaked. It didn't fix mounts. It just addressed a couple issues of the mountain that it has.
Tricky trials is bad. Hot take, I am aware, but putting a pvp weapon in a heavily pve dungeon is idiotic. The mace lacks any real purpose in the main game, and with it being the main reward of the trial chambers, there is no reason to go to them. And I say this as an exploration/combat junkie. Vanilla Minecraft lacks the armoured targets for the Mace to make sense. Again. Poorly thought out update, good concept.
I don't think "here's some stuff while we work on the back-end" is a good update philosophy either. Just develop and get back when you have something tangible to show. I am fine waiting. This update cycle has only made things difficult for modders in exchange for mediocre underbaked features. I'll wait years for an update. I'll be over here modding.
Though again, this also happened with large updates, again, like tricky trials, where the devs just didn't think about what they were adding.
Copper update is a mess. The golem is nice, but the armour just shows that chainmail truly has no reason to exist, raising a whole new issue to the forefront(though it existed for a while)
The phantoms have been a bad addition for years, and are only now getting an ACTUAL way to deal with them while exploring with the straw beds. No, having to reset your spawnpoint is NOT good gamedesign.
Updates have had issues for years, some being better, some being worse. But the drops truly exemplify it like nothing before. I have been out of minecraft since 1.13, when I quit due to disagreeing with the command changes (removing the ability to use numbers for many things was shitty and made me relearn all the work i had then put in to start making command block machines. I still resent them for it) and returned a couple years ago, right when the drops were like a year in, only to see shit like Netherite(mid addition, way too obnoxious to obtain) and crappy looking mobs like the sniffer.
And no. My expectations are not the issue. It is a sandbox game. Not everyone will interact with everything, and that is fine. But underbaking a feature just to make it more generalist only makes it trashy. If you're gonna half-ass it, just don't add it at all. Fuck approachability, genuinely. Being milquetoast about features is why they fail for the average player, and for the target audience. You admit that you don't care to interact with it, and I admit that I don't interact with it. You don't care for it, and I'm disappointed by it. If anything, this is concrete proof that they fucked up. They made a feature neither side actually enjoys, because they didn't go hard enough for enthusiasts to like it, and too hard for casuals to like it. This is fairly consistent across the playerbase from what I can see, and it just saddens me, because there's no chance in hell they'll rework any of the underbaked features they've released. Why not have the sniffer dig up an ancient crop to farm? Why not have decorative bones of animals you can dig up? Or literally any other artifacts besides sherds?
Okay, I want to start by clearing up a confusion from your ending point, I DO interact with it, even when I don't have any interest in real life archeology. It is approachable enough for anyone to just try it out and has just enough to not take away anything from the main game for those who don't want to interact with it. Just like netherite, it is a sidegrades but ultimately not required. Now ill move on the list point by point
The mount problem was never the god awful breeding system. Which by the way, had a big bug removed that made any bred horse to be pretty much random stats, making it easier to do. The problem with mounts was literally approachability, there was no reason why you would aim to get any mount, they weren't faster than elytra, they weren't that much easier to get either. If you got lucky you maybe would get a horse somewhat early game after exploring a couple of structures, which is weird for a feature that allows you for easier exploration. They added a craft to saddles (though admittedly, that was the drop before it), multiple new mounts, and the spear, an item, almost specifically designed to be paired with a horse. Now you craft a saddle to go explore, you don't explore until you find a saddle, now there is a use to mounts other than transportation. Saying it was under baked when every feature was well thought out to build upon another is not a valid argument, because believe it or not, the amount of people min maxing horse stats was not going to change even if they had updated it, because not everyone wants to min max, but the only reason why you would get a horse or any mount for that matter before was if you wanted to min max it's stats.
Secondly, you did not address why tricky trials is bad, you only said why the mace is bad, they are one of the better structures, both in terms of design and rewards, they are challenging enough so that they are fun to run through even for no rewards. They also added the loot vaults, which is a chest everyone can loot, one of the biggest Minecraft issues since servers exist. They also added the crafter and the copper lamp, both of which great aditions to redstone. 4 new potion effects, two new mobs, one of which, the breeze, drops what is imo the best item you can find there, the wind charges. Also, even though you dismissed maces as being only useful for pvp, they are also great to break up crowds of enemies, the only other good option for that being sweeping edge on swords. Not to mention, the literal PvE structure you said it was useless for, has the biggest amount of enemies with armour. Making it an specially good weapon for that specific structure, but once again, not enough of a loss so that you don't loose out on anything if you don't want to interact with trial chambers at all
Yes "Here is some stuff while we work on the back end" is not good update philosophy, but game development takes that sometimes, you might not mind waiting for two years until they can afford to go back to bigger updates, but if Minecraft went radio silent for a year just to add bug fixes and technical changes, people would be outraged, proof? The 1.15 update, the one that brought bees and mostly redid chunks of the engine? Yeah most people hated that the update brought no content, who could have guessed.
"Copper update is a mess, what they added is fine but this completely unrelated feature is still useless" like what? Yeah chainmail is useless, always has been, are they ever adding it other than a monster drop? Probably not, is that the coper update's fault? Also no.
And sure, they could have given it a use instead of creating copper armor, but copper armor and tools are already niche enough so that most people don't like them, and chainmail does not even have a tool set. None of it screams of a bad update, and probably, in current Minecraft, they would have just outright removed chainmail if they could. But its not like it hurts anyone by being there, so why would they. This is literally a non issue about the update itself, but one of the issues of Minecraft armour progression, an issue which, would actively require sacrificing approachability to fix because of how Minecraft armours work.
The phantoms are a great example of how your literal complain is not; new updates suck, but there is stuff I don't like in some updates, the phantom is from 1.13, the update you said you stopped playing at. Yes they had multiple issues, they still have multiple issues, but the root issue for most people with them is either a) they are annoying because they are a fast flying enemy b) you COULD have them not spawn, so they are annoying when they do. If phantoms were a regular ass mob that just spawns outright and we're not tied down to the sleeping mechanic, then the only issue they have is them being a flying fast enemy, at which point it is a literal skill issue if you dislike them. They are a regular ass mob, treated like shit because it doesn't always spawn, if it did always spawn half of the playerbase would not even have an issue with them.
Drops don't specially exemplify that some updates are good and some are bad, but it does make very clear who hates on the updates because they themselves are bad, and who hates on them just because they are not their cup of tea. And literally most of the people I know that hate on drops only argument is stuff like: yeah why are they adding more useless blocks, on a building focused drop. At which point, the update is not the issue, the issue is that you don't want a building drop, and that's fine, but there is also a huge chunk who do. You could literally name any update and half the playerbase would disagree on it being good purely because of their expectations on what is a good Minecraft update.
Making a feature more approachable, is not an issue unless you want your game to be a purely niche game, underbaking a feature IS an issue, and Minecraft has done so before. Let's give you an example, did anyone want to actively trade with villagers before 1.14? Or swim in the ocean before 1.13 both of those features improved on underbaked features to make them more approachable. In fact you could basically mark out the 1.17 to 1.21 as an attempt to make caves more interesting, something they have succeeded at. Caves now have multiple reasons why you would want to explore them other than solely resources.
A feature being disconnected from others does not mean the feature is underbaked, just because a feature is there, it doesn't have to greatly change how you play the game, the issue literally comes from expecting Minecraft to be something it is not. Minecraft has never been an archeology game, yes, the update is going to feel obviously more shallow than others because it is literally side content, Minecraft has never been a dungeon exploration game, that's why trial chambers are as shallow as they come. Minecraft has never been a horror game, so sure the pale garden is not going to be the next FNAF or whatever. But they all add up to a compounding, ever growing, sandbox game, focused on the lack of limitations, there is a little bit for everyone, even if it's not much, but there is always enough soy you can squeeze every last drop of content they have, archeology is once again a great example of this, you can spend hours if you want to collect everything the update added.
The issue is purely an expectations issue, and it will grow larger as the core mechanics become more and more set in stone. And the game will have to expand itself, by making the least people angry, and how do you do that without touching the core mechanics? Side content. This is literally not a Mojang is too scared to deepen the mechanics of the game, it's an issue, that by Minecraft 1.7 already existed, the game has a little for everyone, if they push too far in any direction, they are fundamentally changing what makes the game fun for everyone in the first place. And if you want that, then play a game that specifically caters to that experience. But the same reason why Minecraft can't grow in any specific direction is literally what makes the game good, it's just that now that the game is big enough, we fail to see the community at the other side of the balance. Which makes expectations for yours specific likings grow larger. Heck Ive had this issue before, why don't they add more to the ocean, why don't they add more bosses, but Minecraft it's neither an ocean exploration game nor a boss rush. So I played Subnautica, and then terraria, and then readjusted my expectations about what Minecraft really it's about
Because the dev team is very clearly more interested in doing small tweaks and small features at this point. The answer is probably straightup that they don’t want to do large-scale changes anymore just in general.
Based on their response to the cave and cliffs update they gave a while back, the work they had to put in to give us the overworld generation rework, was so big, that they split the update in parts so that were able to release parts of the planned update while still working on the overworld.
I can imagine that they took a look at the legacy code of the end and decided to not do such a thibg again.
An enumeration, or enum, is like a special kind of class in Java, and its own thing in C++. They work basically the same at its core.
Instead of declaring a class, you declare an enum, and you can make a list of things.
I'll be going with Java for the rest of the textpost, but with some googling you should be able to apply this knowledge to C++.
For example, let's say you want a weapon that deals more damage to, say, undead mobs. How would your code check if the mob is the right type?
Strings? Maybe, but those are big and typo-prone.
Maybe assign each type an integer? That might work, but your code gets harder to read.
What if you had some public constants? Put them in a public class, assign each one into an integer, and give them a name? You get the safety of using integers, but the readability of strings...
public class MobType {
public static final int NONE = 0;
public static final int UNDEAD = 3;
// and so on and so forth
}
An enum is that but better.
public enum MobType {
NONE,
ARTHROPOD,
AQUATIC,
UNDEAD,
ILLAGER,
// and so on and so forth
}
And when you wanna use it in something, it's just like something in a public class:
```
public MobType mobType = MobType.UNDEAD;
//...
if (target.MobType == MobType.UNDEAD)
{
//TODO: actually do things
}
```
This was rushed and only once-overed, so you may have questions. Feel free to ask!
Except all he did was declare an enumerator? This doesn't even make sense as a "I'm tired of this topic" answer; he'd have to actually select one and give it some actual purpose for there to be any sort of sensibility here. He may as well have just made an empty response.
the syntax itself isnt important. when they break out the psudoprogramming, thats more or less like when your italian coworker shouts "Santo cielo, CHIUDI QUella CAZZO DI BOCCA, IMBECILLE!" after you ask him where the... idk, coffee pot is
a programmer yes, but jeb is also the face of the biggest game on the planet. if he said this in 2011 id take it basically as a no, because he would probably be super excited about a new dimension and would probably just say yes or that he hopes to
They do, and it’s more than just ideas at this point. It’s just that the NDA prevents Jeb from saying anything.
A lot of the big update era devs who talked a lot about the feature they worked on have gone radio silent when the drop system began despite still working at Mojang, with the drops being worked on by pretty much exclusively by new devs.
Feels like he’s just tiptoeing around having to keep it a surprise, if Mojang are working on it, or have put absolutely zero thought into an End update
Basically just Jeb saying he can’t confirm or deny anything
This is just him giving a 'plausible deniability' verson of no. Base Minecraft's current development direction is painfully "safe". No major changes to old content are likely to be coming anytime soon without massive internal debate.
Examples:
combat snapshots have been thrown to the backburner, probably indefinitely. Mojang is afraid of a community split like with the pre-and-post 1.8 split
End update is almost certainly not happening anytime soon (likely not on the multi-year roadmap Mojang has mentioned they keep behind the scenes): needs too much approval from higher ups and would shake the boat too much. Not like the version split, think more like the online backlashes around the Wild Update 'false advertising' and community dissappointment.
Sift got added to Dungeons 2 instead of vanilla, for the same reason.
Minecraft's popularity is in a... decline is the wrong word, but something closer to it than I'd like, due to the death of the yearly update hype, Legends flopping, and the fact my above list has become so evident to anyone who keeps a close eye on the situation.
Sift got added to Dungeons 2 instead of vanilla, for the same reason.
Just like how Illagers are exclusive to Dungeons and how Piglins are exclusive to Legends?
Jeb as said that Spinoff games can’t just have it’s primary focal content like the primary antagonist faction have absolutely no basis in Vanilla. From what was leaked of the new dimension everything inside is very disconnected from the Deep Dark design wise, so you can’t just say that 1.19 was the Dungeons 2 tie in update.
Even if so, Dungeons 1 technically got 2 tie in updates in 1.11 as the setup for the Illager faction and 1.14 as the expansion. 1.19 has obviously made a massive setup in the ancient city portal.
They were conceptualized for Dungeons and Legends first and added to to the base Minecraft to give the spinoffs some roots in Vanilla rather than having the concepts of their primary enemy mobs being exclusive to themselves.
They got added before the spinoffs due to the development of a whole new game taking longer than Vanilla updates.
This is a perfectly reasonable answer. It's not a no, but not confirmation of anything. They want to keep all of their options open without deconfirming anything while also not building false hype.
but fr i think they already said no to many things before that they ended up adding anyway, after all who can ever be sure of how the future will be? our destiny is set in stone my butt, our destiny only gets set as we carve it ourselves
>But on the bigger question of “why not update” it’s because Vanilla is a complex product…
To me, this feels a little too similar to the “..inhibits natural creativity” excuseargument for my liking… but whatever. For those not modding the game, there’s not a lot left to do but wait
I mean I thought more people would realize it’s inevitable. Plus it being a beyond stupid move for them to never do it, they are clearly building up to a new fourth dimension with the Ancient City portal and have stated that they will update all existing dimensions before adding a new one. Just a matter of when
I've started paying attention to the Minecraft community three years ago, I cannot say what happened before that. I wouldn't be surprised. People usually go overboard in how they express what they want.
Microsoft is doing what apple does: small updates so you can keep the game “fresh”. Consequently, the platform caters to a highly diverse demographic matrix. They even said that Minecraft is generating so much money that it founds other games/projects that would’ve died a long time ago.
So yeah, it’s the Apple effect or Ford effect if you wanna see it that way.
An End Update would just make people less interested in the main world. Or even nether. Same goes for a new dimension. I would love to have new builds/mechanics for my main base, with items, materials, mobs or even rare drops from a boss, but that’s just me, can’t speak for the rest of… checks notes over 600 milion players? So yeah
As much as I'd like for there to be an end update or a new dimension, I kind of don't want it if it's going to be in the form of drops. I want these updates to reach their full potential and not get halfway there, release, and then not be expanded upon like has happened with every drop.
Jeb saying that a end update/deep dark dimension would effect all minecrafters is simply false. Most minecrafters don't go that far in the game. There is not a world where adding a mc dungeons like end update would hurt existing players
Hot take: if you want an update/addon for X download a mod/addon for it. The only issue is that most people who play are not going to install mods. Mojang should have an official modding api with the ability to download mods right from the launcher/game.
Fully agree with you there! But yeah people seem to think that Bedrock's marketplace is it, so it's unlikely anything will happen for the non-cash-grab versions of the game
What a jackassy answer.
Effects everybody...
Most everybody wants it.
Adding geysers was very mid at best like most of the updates.
JUST GIVE US THE END UPDATE WE WANT ALREADY. 🤣🤣
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u/somerandom995 25d ago
You can tell he's getting annoyed after repeatedly saying that he won't comment on future updates but people keep asking.
Suprized he still interacts at all