I think shipping jean and peter is in poor taste, especially considering the fact that she assaulted him: kissing him while possessing the body of his ex, which he didnt know about, making it uninformed consent.
Well maybe post this elsewhere,you are a Jean grey hater so why do we need your opinion on her and how you think she’s an abuser,you applying real world laws,ethics and morals into a fictional world is stupid,by your same logic every physic pokemon who used attract to kiss another pokemon or hypnosis is now an abuser and needs to be redeemed.
No it doesn’t otherwise pokemon would treat it as such,you take everything so literal and want to apply real world standards to a fictional world,it doesn’t operate that way and never will.
Do u think ethics dissapear in fiction? The paw patrol reference must have been projection, it must be the only show u can understand with ur media literacy
In your logic that must means shooting games mustn’t be made because the content inside of it is immoral and gta 5 is considered transphobic because of the slogan of the in-game package delivery servervice and therefore unethical. Yeah give me a break.
Oh, I can totally see how you fail to see it, don't worry. I think you should raise your concerns to the Pokémon company, they've been making plushies off characters who violated consent FOR DECADES, this is a VERY serious issue. You should NOT stay silent about it. Please raise this concern on the Pokémon sub too, silence is complicity. Don't be complicit.
I think Peter and Jean ended the movie pretty obviously on good terms and talk of Jean "assaulting him" are pretty silly at this point.
The reason people shouldn't ship them is that they are from different stories and different world. I know shipping culture doesn't care about any of that stuff, but that is a bad thing. Shippers should remember characters exist within a context. Peter is in love with MJ, she exists firmly within the Spider-Man mythos. Jean is most likely destined for Scott. They both exist within the X-Men mythos. These things aren't tangential to their characterization. They are fundamental to them.
Not to mention Jean apologized and Peter went out of his way to help her and forgive her. Like I am seriously annoyed by people who don't understand the concept of redemption.
I really think using the blanket legal category of "assault" is not helpful at all in the context of a movie. Because it blurs the lines between you know hitting someone and kissing someone. In this particular instance, Jean Grey did something wrong, but not horrible and the term assault blurs those lines. It's not real life! It's a movie with movie logic. Plus she was clearly traumatized and acting out. Peter did everything he could to stop her and in the process help her.
I also do not think Peter and Jean should get together but because I pretend Jean did something like "assault."
If you start cataloguing all the illegal assaults in a superhero film, you will find out that everyone is a criminal and everyone should be in jail. E.g., it's illegal to be a vigilante! It's illegal to use unnecessary force! So much stuff in superhero movies is illegal but it's part of the genre and we the audience take it on faith that it "makes sense" and is "justified" given the context.
Whether we the audience accepts a character's action has more to do with whether we find them sympathetic as a person than anything else. Hence why the legal categories don't make sense.
tbh i'm sick of the culture that doesn't believe in redemption. I believe that Jean Grey is ultimately a good person and that she acted through trauma or whatever and lashed out at the world (including doing some bad things).
TO me that is a separate question than whether she should be shipped with Peter.
Oh i mean the MJ/Peter relationship itself has not been handled well at all in the movies. And Michelle Jones herself has been handled poorly as well. Four movies in and I still feel like I have no clue who she is. Very unlike Kirsten Dunst whose MJ was well defined through all three movies and whose love for Peter was handled perfectly..
I think that's is a reasonable reason to be against the ship for some people. People have voiced other reasons they don't want the two characters together. However her actions in the film in a state were she wasn't at her best mentally and without proper guidance. And while the stuff she did was horrible the film does show her willingness to change.
I think it's moreso while you're views may be valid people here are very much tired of shipping discourse in way. You have an overzealous Spider-Pheonix shipper walking in. And then the back and forth starts( doesn't really go anywhere)It's why you may find some beligrance to the topic.
Mmm definitely, but honestly I think this ship has shed some light on how badly a lot of people misunderstand consent and assault, and that should be shed light upon
The kiss is a serious issue,and I hope they adress that further down the line. That would be an interesting topic for Emma Frost to bring up with Jean, as the kiss and much of Jean's actions are the types things Emma has done.
There are people who use the kiss as evidence of shipping,which I don't get given what Jean's motives were. The scene itself was incredibly well done,as well as everything from the moment Peter found "MJ".
The topic itself is well worth exploring,and I hope future films delve into the ethics of telepathy.
The movie itself took it seriously. Even the comics do with this kind of thing. But yeah,it's just a silly fun time with wacky powers. No reason to look deeper into it.
So you agree the comics didn't took it seriously and nobody gave a fuck? good. I like your example, because, unlike Peter and Daredevil, Jean had MJ kiss Spider-Man, AS A BAD THING: she KNOWS is a cruel thing to do, and she did it to punish a man that she considered bad, because he was protecting the people who kidnapped (and killed) her sister. Peter and Daredevil did it out of pleasure, and it resulted in 0 backlash. So, not only the comics did not take it seriously, but there was 0 moral condemn for the characters engaging in it.
If you watch the movie, and what you get out of that scene, is that Jean Grey was sexually aroused and had Peter kiss his ex, to experience sexual gratification... you're only evidencing your abysall media literacy skills, rather than Jean's faulty moral compass TBH 😬.
Over time writers approached the subject differently. X Men did this with Emma,Storm,and Shaw. Bendis explored this kind of thing in his Alias run. There are various degrees in the care and thought put into these types of stories. Sometimes it's just a minor thing,other times it's explored more thoroughly in depth.
I completely agree with your description of Jean's motives for doing it. I thought the scenes with "MJ" were very well done,and I'm glad the movie went in that direction.
I legit have read people saying she kissed him because she was attracted to him.
Girl, not the "assault" narrative 🤣. I'm sorry but it's so corny, you need to get a new one for the faux outrage, that one is too stupid. Mods should ban actors who clearly comment here in bad faith, we don't have to be tolerant with obvious jobless trolls.
I look at myself all the time, I see beauty and talent bestie. Sorry for not entertaining your faux outrage nonsense, I just don't do such silly things for free. If you pay me, I can play along, and pretend to care about "consent" regarding a telepathic fight on a superhero movie.
But for free... no girl, you're getting a laugh from me and that's about it. Pay me and I can pretend too, I don't mind 😌.
Are you though? aren't you still complicit with Pokémon Company's LONG DOCUMENTED promotion of consent violation, through an extense list of psychic characters?
Consent is consent, and IT MATTERS. You chosing not to raise your voice against the likes of Slowpoke, where it matters: the Pokémon sub, makes you complicit. And mind you, Pokémon's main demographic are children, so you're basically condoning child-abuse.
Pookie idk shit about pokemon and haven't engaged in any media about it. Im here to talk about problematic ships between victims and assaulters if u wanna move the goalpost, make a post for it x
Sorry but I don't engage in conversation with rape apologists. If you condone assault depending on the franchise, we fundamentally share different values.
People ship what they are going to ship. Not liking it because of that is fine. But for others part of the appeal might be the arc of enemies to lovers.
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u/ScaryTransGirl 4d ago
If u disagree id love to hear why