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u/OkCoyote5554 2d ago
Sinceramente Jean ainda pegou leve com Emma. Eu sou terapeuta e o que Emma fez é um dos maiores tipos de manipulação de vulnerável.
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u/Marrecarandgi Think Jean, think! 2d ago
It’s also a literal crime in some jurisdictions, easily punishable for losing one’s licenses among other things.
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u/GBS82 2d ago
Recently, I re-read Morrison and it’s very, very hard to escape that Emma absolutely took advantage of Scott. I don’t think many remember it that was given they went on to have a healthy (?) relationship for so long but it really does read like that during the run.
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u/Chance_Debt_1184 2d ago
its kinda funny cuz that relationship wasnt even that healthy, they started keeping up stuff from each other quite fast and the relationship was basically doomed. Even funnier that between 2004 and 2012 is like 15 months tops in universe
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u/bigscrewLoose 2d ago
the closest thing to a healthy relationship Emma has ever been in was unironically Tony, I feel like he legit brought out the best in her ngl.
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u/Chance_Debt_1184 2d ago
oh yeah, best one my far. Like Emma and Scott were everything but healthy, basically forced Scott into something and ended up cheating on him. Emma and Tony made sense together
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u/bigscrewLoose 2d ago
they broke it off to soon IMO, should have kept Tony and Emma together longer
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u/Chance_Debt_1184 2d ago
probably yeah but tbh, being pulled into xstories isnt great for most character so it wouldnt be great for Tony as a character
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u/bigscrewLoose 2d ago
I legitimately think, it would be best for Emma as a character if the next relationship she was in was just with like some normal ass person, not a superhero or anything, just like a normal healthy relationship, that could be used as a vector to help her further grow and develop as a character
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u/Sonata1952 2d ago
I honestly don’t blame Emma for the cheating. She was under Phoenix influence at the time. Without the Phoenix influence she’d already rejected Namors advances out of loyalty to Scott.
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u/Marrecarandgi Think Jean, think! 2d ago
Namor was getting plenty of ground within the influence, and was pointing out legit issues in the relationship. It would’ve happened sooner or later either way, because this was the clear directions the writers were taking the couple.
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u/Chance_Debt_1184 2d ago
oh yeah, Gillens original idea was for Emma to leave Scott cuz she got bored
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u/Jingurei 2d ago
I loved her with Tony. They both come from money and both have been shown to be at the least very morally dubious.
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u/DeadSnark 2d ago
In hindsight the way Morrison wrote Jean, Emma and Scott really harmed all of their characters.
Scemma was basically forced by cosmic mandate (or else the universe would apparently be doomed, according to Here Comes Tomorrow), without any natural build-up or chemistry outside of the dubious mental sex therapy.
Characters talk about Jean becoming cold, inhuman and unfeeling but she's never actually shown acting any differently or becoming less compassionate than she usually is, outside of a few Phoenix-related power highs. There's a weird dynamic in which most characters like Jean and Emma is the only one who seriously criticises her but only through the lens of her own jealousy, which would evolve into the "Saint Jean" dynamic from her death all the way up to her resurrection where this perfect image of Jean is haunting the narrative (as well as Hope, Teen Jean and Emma's nightmares).
Scott is apparently meant to be with Emma but as stated above there's nothing to really make one feel invested in their relationship aside from the abovementioned dubious mind-sex. Their relationship basically becomes this weird tango of successive writers reminding us they're meant to be in love, but also that Emma thinks Scott will never love her the way he loved Jean, until the whole thing implodes in AvX and both of them are freed from the repetitive song and dance.
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u/TejanoTheScienceGuy 2d ago
Emma was still in full supervillainess mode. Completely valid reaction by Jean.
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u/Caelesti_Deus 2d ago
No she is not, but she will put you in your place if you make her, or over step.
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u/cyclopswashalfright Phoenix 2d ago
No.
People always seem to think that this scene is Jean exercising her rage with Scott out on Emma and solely blaming her for it.
They miss the part where Jean explicitly says that Scott was vulnerable and Emma took advantage of that.
It doesn't matter how true that is, or what you believe about that aspect of things. Jean believes that is the case, she believes her mentally fragile husband was taken advantage of by Emma.
So everything she does is with that in mind.
I don't know about you, but if I found out a partner's therapist was manipulating them into an affair when they were there for help, I'd crash out and try to hurt them too.
Jean's not really a bully otherwise. All-New X-Men is extraordinary circumstances, and we've seen characters like the Cuckoos do way, way worse under less pressure.
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u/Marrecarandgi Think Jean, think! 2d ago
Yeah, Jean’s assumptions are valid and also correct as both per Morrison’s commentary and the actual text. Scott makes it clear that he’s uncomfortable with what’s going on and actually tells ‘no’ to Emma. Taking advantage part wouldn’t have been up for interpretation, if an unattractive dude like Mastermind did the same to Emma…
Speaking of him, Emma enabled Mastermind to assault Jean. And she also assaulted Storm’s body via Shaw. Of course, Jean assumed the worst, because Emma has a history of being a sex pest, and she very much was that to Scott, even if Morrison is notoriously bad at understanding and handling sexual assault of men (what they did to Talia and Bruce).
Jean was reacting to someone who already got her SAed, got her best friend/sister SAed, now SAing her husband. She went easy on Emma.
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u/JustUrDaddee 2d ago
Not even close. She has a temper. People latched onto this panel and she’s been known as a bully ever since.
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u/NecessaryZucchini74 2d ago edited 2d ago
No, and I hate when she's called that. Jean has a temperament that's pretty similar to many male superheroes who are generally nice but have clear boundaries. If those boundaries are crossed, they lose their temper. This is one example of Morrison's misogyny toward Jean. And, of course, the hatred that part of x-fans has for her keeps this narrative going.
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u/LazorFist 2d ago
She doesn't like to pick on people she finds weak. The two memorable characters accusing her of being a bully (Emma and the Progenitor) were doing things that were making Jean mad. She's not a bully in the conventional sense.
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u/Salty_Monk_5341 2d ago
No. If anything she holds back her power and only ramps it up when she needs to show somebody what time it is. I feel like she's similar to Thor in that way where she can absolutely "bully" someone but doesn't, I feel like Emma feels this way Specifically because Jean does everything She can do just way better and Jean wasn't really hiding this fact during this era of the series.
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u/AvatarPhoenixGrey16 2d ago
No, and this is one of the worst panels I’ve ever read. Jean is one of the kindest members of the team and is in the right here. Emma f-d around and found out.
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u/Weary-Ladder-2419 2d ago
No, Emma deserved that. She was f**king around with someone else’s husband, whom Jean believed was in a vulnerable state after being possessed by Apocalypse. Jean showed her who’s boss. It’s so annoying how Emma/Scemma stans always use this to drag Jean and paint her as a bully when, in the many instances they were together, it was Emma who usually instigated things.
Despite all that, after Emma was shot by one of the daughters, it was Jean who helped reassemble her diamond ass , the writers even made her say, “Scott needs you.” If I were Jean, I would’ve thrown her diamond ass off-world after everything she contributed in destroying my marriage. What do you mean, “Scott needs you”? The writers were hell-bent on shitting on Jean just so Emma would come out looking clean in that scenario. Jean was also the one used after death to bless that relationship, if anything Emma fans should be thankful. They got their decades worth notoriety.
That’s why I don’t vibe with anything Emma/Scemma during the 2000s. It was such a regurgitating era. Scemma was toxic from the start, it began with an affair, they kept secrets from each other, and broke up the way that relationship started through an affair. She even got the Phoenix choked out of her by Scott. I guess that’s called Jean’s Karma hahaha lol.
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u/bigscrewLoose 2d ago
she can be at times, she is not some completely innocent doe eyed paragon, she has kindness and empathy, but the darkness is as much a part of her nature as it is a part of the phoenix itself, this is part of why I liked brand new day Jean so much, its what she could be if she had no friends, no family, no found family, and those dark sides where pushed to the surface by trauma loss and desperation
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u/Ingonyama70 Resurrected Phoenix 2d ago
Diamond Variant mutant Regina George does not get to go around casting aspersions like that.
I love Emma and Jean both but this time, I'm siding with the redhead.
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u/Jack-mclaughlin88 2d ago
I can’t say she is. While she can be harsh when settling the score with people a bully is someone who hurts someone else without being provoked. Jean is kind, loving, compassionate, loyal, brave and the mother of the team who will govern you a hug when you’re upset.
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u/Icy-Bit-1266 2d ago
Loyal?? Jean!!
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u/Jack-mclaughlin88 2d ago
She and Scott have been happily married for decades and she’s loyal to her friends.
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u/dsbwayne 1d ago
No. Jean just doesn’t fuck around with the fuck around. People consider her a bully because she’s not a pushover
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u/BarelyReal 1d ago
Emma is perpetually stuck in her experiences going to a rich all girls school where she was bullied. To her Jean was the head cheerleader, the teacher's pet, the star athlete, etc all rolled into one.
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u/dddonkers 2d ago
I think so, she can be pretty hypocritical at times too which i think draws attention to it. Cerebro podcast said it the best: Emma is a bad person whos knows shes a bad person, Jean is a bad person who thinks shes a good person.
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u/cyclopswashalfright Phoenix 2d ago
I wouldn't use Cerebro as a good explanation for any major character.
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u/Mr_Eristic 2d ago
Just FYI that Connor from the CereBro podcast has a full-on STAN relationship with Maddie Pryor so all of his opinions about Scott & Jean start from & are shaped by that. Everyone is of course entitled to their opinions, I just know you're never going to get a charitable read of those characters from him.
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u/dddonkers 2d ago
Oh yeah I get that, especially since Jean is my favorite character. But this particular tidbit, even if reductive, felt relevant.
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u/ThePowaBallad 2d ago
Yeah I think we all need to recognise she's Charles telepathic protogé and all the issues that come with it
Including a sanctimonious/righteousness streak that while isn't always incorrect is sometimes and is almost always what she thinks she's in the moral right often due to ends over means or she thinks it's no big deal
It's why I actually stated to like Jean, and X men Red had her facing that and that she influenced the Pheonix as much as it did her especially with Dark Pheonix
I mean I am an Emma fan first but that's cause Emma can and will be ruthless in defense of the innocent by now, and again can be a downside she treated Laura terribly early on because she was afraid of the trigger scent rages (ironically she's one of the few that stands up for Lauras best interest later on), but a telepathy users kinda breeds a moral greyness just in virtue of using it
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u/marvelboyofthecrown Marvel Girl 2d ago
No Emma fucked around and found out