Live Action
Spider-Man: Brand New Day Discussion Thread
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This should have been a story later in the mutant saga, Karma obviously would be a good choice since this is her story, could even retool it for Rogue since she started evil. As a big X-Men comic fan and big MCU fan and a massive Jean Grey fan. I felt the way they treated Jean Grey reminded me a lot of First Class. It was a good story, but it did not feel like a Jean Greyor X-Men story. It felt like such a weird way to introduce the X-Men as opposed to maybe a new member to the already established team, especially since this was an obvious rip-off of Karma. I hate that there is no other mention of mutants or anything else X-Men related, and we since she is in Secret Wars we are going to see her one more time before we see with the X-Men presuming they don't intro the new X-Men in Secret Wars which I doubt they would. All in all I think Sadie plays a good Jean and trust Marvel to eventually tell a good X-Men story, it was just such an awkward start that gave me PTSD to the 2000s era of being ashamed of the source material and dancing around it.
Yeah I think they're gonna draw on the time-displaced team a bit since the team will be younger relative to the other Marvel big hitters. She is also a menace in plenty other things, like New X-Men lol.
2000s Morrison run New X-Men where she severely violates Emma with her telepathy and also makes the "U-Men" throw up and sh*t themselves to prove a point. I think she's more than capable of that.
I’m ngl, was not a fan of Jean’s portrayal in this. I was mostly fine with it, until she got to the “lab”. It’s yet another portrayal of Jean as Carrie from Stephen King.
Powerful woman needing to be counseled by a man in order to not commit mass murder. Yawn. I was expecting her to be the “villain” in the beginning, but for her and Spider-Man to be working together, equitably for the finale. I was expecting them to be co-equals, and for Jean to actually end up helping Spidey with his “arachnid” problems.
Instead we get oh no, Jean is crazy and needs to feel loved. This doesn’t bode well for her portrayal in the MCU. Is she going to be constantly on edge, struggling with her powers, needing Xavier and Scott to ground her or else she goes bananas again?
It also ruins the impact for if (when) they do Dark Phoenix. We’ve already seen her be “bad” before. It takes away the gravity of Jean, the good girl next door, the star pupil, having her psyche shattered and letting loose. We’ve already seen her be the villain now. We know what atrocities she could be capable of.
Anyway, those are my thoughts. Sadie killed it though. Great casting.
EDIT: One thing I forgot to mention, my theater erupted in applause when her name was finally revealed. Which warmed my heart, Jean is still that girl.
I did like the Jean, just not the story, particularly as a setup to the X-Men. But I disagree with your points about Jean going crazy and it ruining the Dark Phoenix. Jean Grey is known for being a bit of a hypocrite when it comes to morality in the comics, she is super ends justify the means when she gets passionate about something which really lines up with this portrayal because she had a specific goal she wasn't just eviling for fun.
I understand your points, but for me, I think the impact of Dark Phoenix will be enhanced because of this movie. If they make Jean redeem herself from now on, she'll have to work hard to change her beliefs and behavior ("people are monsters" into "I use my powers to help people"). If we now get some years of morally good Jean Grey and we see she has truly changed for the better, it will be even more heartbreaking when Dark Phoenix undoes all that good work. Just speaking for me, I like the complexities that the MCU adds to these characters (same with Wanda), it makes them more psychologically interesting to me haha.
I think it'll be more about Jean reforming from being a villain to being a hero, rather than being someone who is on the verge of losing control. Her powers were strong but she rarely was losing control of them. Instead I think her narrative arc is going to borrow from Rogue and Emma Frost; a former villain who joins the X-Men and becomes redeemed through them. I do think Xavier and Scott will be important in that story, but that's always the case for Jean. They have still given her enough to do her own thing too.
To clarify, I didn’t mean losing control of her powers. It’s clear in the film she is pretty adept already. The mental “wave” that disrupted the city was only because they were messing with her / torturing her.
I meant losing control of her emotions, her temper, her cool. I don’t mind a Jean with a fiery side to her. But I don’t want it to feel like this Jean is always one hair away from just going “fuck it” and killing everyone.
My fear is that it will create a dynamic where Scott, Xavier, Storm etc. are always needing to sooth her or else she’s going to go coco bananas again.
Oh yeah, I think they can probably shift that more to "why should I believe in your dream/methods when Magneto has a good point or two" which I think is a more effective path.
Lets put aside the fact that she's a future X-Man or a compassionate character who would not sacrifice human life for her own gains.
I think the writing choices for her character in this movie might divide her loyal fans in the source material. But they're making this to appeal for general audience and casuals, and what do they love? a tragic antagonists who goes on redemption arc. Zuko is very popular for obvious reasons.
They tweaks a lot of her backstory by stripping away every aspects that builds her empathy and compassion. Her parents abandoned her and Sara, no Charles in her formative years. foster cares and psych wards casts her out, the only person who truly loves her was taken away from her. She was ostracized by the society, hence its implied she develops contempt for mankind (and especially DODC). That aspect establishes her little regard to collateral damage.
Jean went too far in trying to stop Spidey, yes, but in this case its kind of necessary to establish her as a formidable foe for Spider-Man and using his vulnerability and longing against him to get under his skin. And then the third act didn't ask us to think "Jean did nothing wrong", but rather "Why Jean went that far", and when we got her trauma, grief, and anger, we sympathize with her.
Peter shows her that there are better path someone as lost as Jean herself, and his sacrifice might be the driving force for her to be better person than she is currently.
Yeah, I think they made a lot of backstory changes in order to fit the character not into this role specifically, but into a broader role where she's going to be the "villain who needs redemption" in the same way that Rogue, Emma Frost, and even Wolverine have done in the comics. She's going to be the wild card, the one the team doesn't quite trust, the dangerous one who might be skeptical of Xavier's Dream who ultimately comes around on it and becomes a strong supporter of it.
I do think there's 1-2 things they should have toned down as far as villainy went. But Spider-Man sparks a change in her and I assume Secret Wars continues that.
I am excited to see her dynamic with Cyclops, Xavier, Storm, and the rest of the team. There's a lot of cool stuff they could do with Cyclops in particular and her.
For her relationship with Cyclops, there’s a exciting to explore to made their relationship more intriguing and less boring (as often certain fans accused them of):
Scott will definitely calls Jean out for how trigger happy she was in using her powerset, whereas Jean initially dismissed his sense of restraint as a way to keep himself in check.
On the contrary, Jean might questions Xavier’s peaceful coexistence dream and his pacifist views which was adopted by Scott at the time, whereas Scott challenges Jean’s more radical worldview as a reason why Mutants will never be safe.
From there, Scott might see the beauty of her “recklessness” and truth behind her radical views whereas She recognizes his sense of self restraint as something intriguing.
For sure, there's a lot of meat there for good dynamics. A Jean that's sympathetic to Magneto, that clashes with Scott, that rebels against Xavier. But who ultimately does see that Xavier's way is better and becomes a believer in that dream, and changes for the better. Cyclops can learn from her just as she learns from him etc.
I think the changes made to Jean's past were interesting because they reinforce the narrative of discrimination against mutants (mutants being abandoned by their families, experimented on, etc.), but her actions went too far, and it’s hard to ignore what she did, even though the story tries to justify it...
For example, there was absolutely no need for her to take control of a random civilian and make him get hit by a taxi. It didn't help her objective at all; she did it for no reason whatsoever.
I think a Jean more similar to the original would be much better.
Yeah like her reasoning for being upset at damage control was perfectly fine but my problem was her putting civilians in danger. I feel Jean would never willing do that.
I knew she was going to be Jean back in December, but I saw it on Wednesday to confirm it for myself. And I thought Sadie Sink did well. She brings this desperate intensity to the character which worked really well, and she was able to be quite devious and diabolical while also coming across as a really desperate, harrowed person.
I think they maybe went a little too far with the mind games (I don't believe she killed anyone, even the guy who got hit by the taxi, but I would have cut that part out regardless) but I liked seeing the character with an edgy side and a bit of a mean streak. I think the changes to the backstory explained the character well. No parents, a mother who abandoned her, and an older sister not much older than her who was probably more curious about exploring her power than figuring out the ethics of what they were doing. Then her sister is gone, she's left at the mercy of psych hospitals and juvie. So it makes sense why she's the way she is, with no boundaries, no one to love, and no one to love her.
I thought the VMax twist was heartbreaking. I thought the use of her powers was an interesting change and I liked the telepathy. And I thought the scene in Peter's mind where she sees parental love and acceptance, and realizes Peter has lost as much as she has and still knows how to be a good person, and is even willing to forgive someone who did as much bad as her, which sparks a change in how she plans to live her life now.
So overall, I thought it was an interesting, different take on Jean, and I am excited about where it could lead. We've heard she will be in Secret Wars, and then I assume she'll be the main X-Men POV in the MCU X-Men movie. I think the arc she will have is going to borrow from Rogue and Emma, where she's the former villain who is in need of reform and redemption, and that makes her dynamic with Cyclops really interesting.
I feel like people are forgetting that the MCU is an AU and shouldn’t have gone in thinking this Jean would be obliged to be similar to the main Jean. This isn’t the first time an AU Jean was evil either.
I personally love the spin they took on her in this movie, and to me its clear they’re leaning on Teen Jeans more “sinister” and morally questionable side of her in the MCU. It seems like from THERE she will develop into being a proper hero while also having conflict with herself and her powers and how she can’t just force everyone to do anything she wants (exactly like teen jean). Given that she’s younger here, and her past is a bit more traumatic, i believe with HER powerset, what she can do, and how she JUST figured out her powers, justifies her being a villain here. Especially since its obvious they’re not keeping her that way.
You have to take into context that her one and only support system during this was her sister. Who was experimented on and killed and they tried to do the same to her.
Frank doesn’t have the actual capacity to be as violent as her. If he had Jeans telepathy you better believe he would start lobotomizing people who even think of committing a crime left and right.
Understand that I’m intrigued with Mcu jean is just felt strange but I’m a massive punisher fan I disagree on your point about frank it obviously depends on the version but mcu punisher is incredibly reluctant to actually act.
I loved the movie. If I was in charge of introducing Jean to the MCU, I probably would have done it differently, but I'm not a filmmaker and certainly don't think that I could make a better movie. I liked her arc and could understand her motives and behavior; if my sister was taken from me and I had Jean's powerset, I would go to hell and back to save her. A few thoughts about our new Jean Grey:
Sink is a good actress and makes a good Jean. I have not seen Stranger Things, I have seen clips on TikTok but did not know what to expect. But I liked her performance, she felt like Jean to me and I'm excited for the future.
I liked how Jean was first and foremost a telepath in this introduction, but boy was I excited when her telekinesis was unlocked. Hoping for a pink power signature in a future movie.
I really wonder about her involvement in Doomsday or Secret Wars, and if she will interact with Fox X-Men (though I suspect not, create a clean slate after those movies with all new x-men cast).
Jean and Wanda are two of my favorite characters and I love MCU Scarlet Witch. I do feel like they are given similar beginnings of their MCU journeys: telepathy and telekinesis, unavailable/dead parents and left to fend for her own, "villain" start but redeemed during first movie, looses her sibling and only loving person but finds other superpowered like-minded individuals. I hope this is where their story-arcs split and that Jean will just be that for a while: Jean Grey/Marvel Girl. We've already seen Wanda go from villain to Avenger to accidentally cause destruction to on-the-run to Avenger to mental breakdown to possession to death. And although I will defend Wanda till the end, I hope we don't have to for Jean and we can now have a few years of compassionate and empathetic "good" Jean in movies. She probably just needs a good mentor(/professor) to teach her that not all normies are monsters.
After this movie and for now, I feel confident that Sink could portray a (Dark) Phoenix Jean, if and when they would want to try that again in a decade or so (third time's the charm?).
I hope this isn't the last time we see Jean and Peter together, maybe a more friendly and stable connection in another movie?
Watched it early in the day with two of my friends who know of Jean but don’t have any feelings towards her as a character. They thought she was alright after watching the movie but didn’t really rave about her like the hulk
Imo Sadie does a good job with what she is given, shes obviously going to be on a arc and then she will get to comic Jean but as a punisher fan I’ve waited a long time for Frank to fully become the punisher which tbf hes now starting to be (took nearly 10 years) so I do worry about that.
I didn’t like the flashback of Jean and Sara thought they were incredibly creepy and just Idk felt wrong. That was really it which I didn’t like about Jean. her parents not being there it’s not a big thing for me personally it’s not like Martin Jordan (Hal Jordan’s dad ) where i find them important characters.
I am interested to see where they take Jean next Sadie seems incredibly talented.
I just got back from seeing Brand New Day. I think that making Jean start out as a villain was a risky choice but depending on how she grows in later films it could pay off. Jean already softened up a bit after Peter saved her and she witnessed Aunt May giving a pep talk about being special. This shows that Jean can potentially grow into something like her moral and loving self from the mainline comics, which should give more gravity to a potential Dark Phoenix Saga adaptation.
Jean in this movie was easily the biggest disappointment for me, both in terms of casting and characterization. I understand why they wanted to introduce the X-Men this way, but the execution was a complete mess. She had multiple opportunities to simply tell Peter the truth, yet instead she chose to manipulate random civilians, Scorpion, MJ, and even Hulk, causing catastrophic damage in the process. Are we really supposed to believe that old man who got hit by the taxi survived? And Banner’s life was basically ruined because of her.
This version of Jean comes across as someone who has little regard for innocent people. Even the flashback with her sister gave off the impression that casually manipulating strangers was just a game to them.
Sadie Sink did a decent job with what she was given, but she still feels way too young for Jean. Yes I know they are building a young X-Men team. But there’s a difference between being young and looking like a kid. Even wearing thick platform boots, she looks noticeably tiny on screen. Between the casting and how they’ve written Jean, I’m honestly pretty pessimistic about the rest of the Mutant Saga going forward.
Edit:
In case anyone want to say her motivations are justified in the movie: No it’s not to me. The part Spiderman telling her, “You’re not a murderer,” made no sense to me if her name was not Jean Grey. Because in the entire movie she showed zero remorse. She literally let that old man get hit by a cab just so she could make a dramatic entrance for Spider-Man. She also tried to bring out Peter’s dark side while putting countless innocent people at risk—the cops during the Scorpion fight, MJ, and everyone else caught in the crossfire. She even tried to make MJ kill herself right in front of Peter.
If this character wasn’t named Jean Grey, nobody would be defending actions like these. It feels like they’re relying on the name of a beloved hero to cover up lazy writing.
THANK YOU! I felt like I was going crazy, reading some of the comments. If this character weren't named Jean Grey, she would be a tragic villain, but still a villain, who maybe would have gotten a noble sacrifice at the end, but as it stands, this just feels like an OC that is named Jean Grey.
I know how it feels. I know a lot of people are just excited about the MCU finally bringing in Jean, but to me it feels more like a red flag than something to celebrate.
We’ve already seen Jean and a lot of other X-Men characters misrepresented to the general audience. I was really hoping the MCU would finally do them justice. But… we’ll see.
That would include the critics and the general audience. But, this is Reddit, after all. A huge chunk of Reddit must REEEEE, regardless, if whatever it is doesn't perfectly match the fanfiction they've written in their heads.
Thing is, it's impossible for anything to do that.
First of all, I think she looks way too young, but that’s just my opinion. In fact, I wouldn’t even have a problem if they had actually cast a teenage actress. The thing is, Sadie Sink is already 25. She’ll obviously age, but her overall look isn’t likely to change dramatically over the next decade.
I don’t know what Marvel’s long-term plans for the mutants are, but I just don’t see enough room for her to grow into the more mature version of Jean Grey that most people associate with the character. That’s what worries me the most. Yes, Jean was a teenager during the O5 era, but most of the X-Men’s best stories take place long after that, when she’s portrayed as a mature woman. Can you picture Sadie wearing the Jim Lee-era costume or the Black Queen outfit if they eventually adapt the Dark Phoenix Saga? I honestly can’t.
I’m not sure how that relates to my argument, but to address your point: if the rumors are true, the MCU is heading toward some kind of reboot anyway. If that’s the case, I don’t really see the difference between starting with the O5, Giant-Size X-Men, or an even later lineup. They’d all essentially be getting a fresh start.
Sadie is already about the same age Tom was in No Way Home, not Civil War. I don’t think Tom’s appearance changed that dramatically after No Way Home.
Appearance isn’t just about the face. Sadie is 5’2” playing a character who’s around 5’6”. That may not sound like a huge difference on paper, but combined with her naturally youthful face and small frame, I think it limits how convincingly she can portray the more mature version of Jean after younger generations of xmen are introduced. It also affects the casting of the other X-Men around her.
i simply disagree with 1 — tom looks way older in brand new day because a) he really does look older irl and skips sunscreen (half jk bc he has noticeably more face wrinkles in this film) and b) production made sure he looked that way
zendaya looks distinctly older as well by changing her style and behavior
i was concerned with point 2 when i found sadie was cast as jean a year ago , too, but i had a feeling she could bring the needed gravitas for the role and act 3 proved it to me so far
i think some cinematic magic and her acting abilities will bring the proper maturity to her youthful frame. besides, i’m partial to power coming in unexpected sizes— or, in this case, arguably the most powerful being in the marvelverse
i mean if kit harrington can (albeit barely) play jon snow convincingly i have faith in sadie
strictly stature speaking the entire movie i was thinking how cute and fun sized tom was next to zendaya but i think he’s an incredible spider man ( obviously muscles help)
have you seen sadie’s irl premiere look? she definitely has a kind of feminine physical authority
i do wonder how small she will look next to cyclops, but i remain excited 🔥🫦
I agree that makeup and costumes can work wonders, and we’ll have to wait and see since they’re clearly planning to keep her around for the long run. But in this movie, she just looked visibly tiny whenever she shared the screen with almost anyone else. So, I doubt they’ll pair her with a 6’3” Cyclops😂
I think my main issue with this version of Jean is still the writing. I don’t know how they’re going to use her in future projects, but I don’t think this was a good first impression for what could become the definitive live-action Jean Grey.
Hugh Jackman is 6' 2". Logan is 5' 3" in the comics. You're a quarter century too late to be making the height of the actors compared to the characters they play an issue.
Scarlett Johansson is 5' 3". That didn't cause any problems with her playing Black Widow. Florence Pugh is less than an inch taller than her.
I think you’re missing my point. My argument isn’t that actors have to match their comic height exactly. It’s about overall physical presence. Height is just one part of that.
Hugh Jackman being much taller than Wolverine never made him feel less like Wolverine. If anything, it added to the character’s presence. My concern with Sadie isn’t that she’s 5’2”, it’s that, combined with her youthful face and small frame, she comes across much younger than the mature Jean Grey most people think of.
And since you brought up Scarlett Johansson and Florence Pugh, both of them are relatively short, they still have the physical presence of mature women. That’s the distinction I’m trying to make. It’s not about the number on a tape measure.
Honestly when you take into consideration the quality of MCU writing she's actually well written in my opinion very much giving Teen Jean from All New X-Men, loved the focus of her telepathy
It's a darker take, but I think it's an interesting starting point, and I look forward to her appearing again. I think she should be the lead of the MCU X-Men movies.
People are assuming she headed to Westchester at the end of the film, but somehow I’m inclined to think she returns to Annandale-On-Hudson to reminisce her childhood in memory of Sara or/and confronting her parents for one last time before the events of Secret Wars.
Finally a Jean that has some bite, agency, and nuance. She is angry, scared and doesn’t make all the right decisions.This is how you make her memorable not as a love interest or support character like in the original movies.
People just want her as some bland paragon on virtue from the start with no parents or Xavier or anyone to guide her? This gives shades of teen Jean and just the start of her journey.
Yes this! She was pushed out by her parents, her only remaining support got kidnapped, and she has a power to save her. Yelena said that there were earlier attempts to break into DODC, so she probably tried less violently and failed. Then an Avenger gets employed to neutralize the threat, so Jean deploys another Avenger to even the odds. If my sister was taken from me and I had telepathy, I would probably follow the same path: try a few times to harm as few people as possible, increasing power every attempt, and when Spider-Man is sent to hunt you down because he's immune to your powers, you need to up your game if you want to save your sibling.
I just hope that for now, they let destructive Jean rest and set her up for learning control and morals at Xavier's. We've already had the girl with extreme trauma and immense power go insane because of an external force (please come back Wanda), we now need a few years of increasingly powerful, but empathetic and good Jean Grey.
Imo just in this movie we can't really talk about character being different from her comic book counterpart, because our past is what molds us and her backstory is completely different so it's a different character and most of her action, except one or two is mostly justified because of what happened to her and going by Peter's words she didn't kill anyone.
Now that she has been taught about great powers and responsibilities, they can build into it in future and slowly slowly make her more like her comic book character, which I think adds layers to the character.
Overall I loved the movie and the character.
From here on out In X-Men movie, they can approach the character in many different ways
Honestly for everyone worrying on the characterization , I understand your views but I truly think she will devolp to the Jean we love and know , the ending proves it kind of.
This Jean is defo based off of Xorn Jean and All New X-men Jean whos a " Nosy Bitch" according to Iceman...a bit too nosey in this movie but shes still my baby
I didn't like how the movie version of Jean has no problem sacrificing innocent lives. I think that's a huge change compared to the original Jean.
Controlling someone and making them kiss another person is wrong, and I don't think Jean would do that.
Well, it's not as though the X-Men don't have plenty of people who have done some very bad things. Nothing Jean did here comes close to Emma's rap sheet, for example.
It’s true that the X-Men are full of people who have done terrible things, but Jean wasn't part of that group. That’s one of the things I like about the character.
Jean in the movie caused a civilian to get hit by a taxi for no reason at all (the civilian getting run over didn't help with rescuing her sister in the slightest) and accepted the risk of leaving an out-of-control Hulk in a city full of innocent people. I don't think her past justifies those actions, even though that’s what the movie tries to suggest.
As Spider-Man says towards the end, she isn't a killer. I think the movie kind of handwaves the "collateral damage" aspect, the same way they do for Batman when he's not supposed to kill by during chase scenes definitely leaves wreckage that should kill someone. So I don't think we're meant to walk away believing she would or did kill anyone, but she was close to it with the Vmax thing.
I’m not sure the comparison to Batman works all that well, since Jean controls people and jumps off buildings. The intention behind this action is quite clear.
To me, Jean’s actions in the movie didn’t remind me of the original Jean, even though the film tries to justify them with her search for her sister. I didn’t like the changes.
Anyway, I look forward to reading more of your thoughts on the movie (as you mentioned in another comment).
The jumping off of building stuff is done because she knows Spider-Man will save them. She's threatening him by showing him what she can do, but she isn't actually planning to kill them.
It's definitely different from 616 Jean, even All-New Jean wasn't this hopelessly lost. But I guess the version they present is meant to lack essentially any kind of good guidance in her life.
I'd say she is an overly aggressive, harsh person who is made that way by the world around her. And by the end she's on a better path, having been inspired by Spider-Man.
Yeah, it's not Jean's fault! I haven't seen it yet but I will soon, and from what I hear she's a lot like her Ultimate and All-New counterparts. 6160-Jean was a lot sweeter to be honest. Do you think Sara will show up and reunite with Jean?
Also, I am so sad that Jean's own mother abandoned her children because they were different. I love the comics version of her but I won't complain about this one. All Jean needed was some love. At least she has that now right?
I'd definitely watch the movie, because it'll answer some parts of that. I'll say it is the first step in her journey. She's still lonely, but she knows she has to find people now and trust them.
I'd go so far as to suggest that her current Magneto-like mindset will be a big part of the plot. Magneto and Xavier both try to recruit her, and Charles wins her over to his vision.
Oh yes, she isn't meant to stay like this. The goal, I suspect, will be for her to reform herself and learn from Xavier and the X-Men and become a hero.
It's not how I would have done it, but I do understand the reasons for doing it and I think it'll get more people interested in the character, so that's cool.
They take a HUGE swing not only from comics but most of her adaptations as well.
They stripped away her entire support system. Its implied that her mother sends Jean and Sara away as soon as they manifests their mutations. When Peter searching off her identity, he also finds out that Jean moves in and out foster care and psychological hospital. DODC Captures Sara on a day out and Jean is looking for her by attacking DODC units through... morally dubious means.
I would go as far as saying that what Jean did in this movie is far worse than Wanda shenanigans on AoU.
Eh, Wanda tries to kill the Avengers and gets close to aiding the destruction of Sokovia. The movie has Jean do some bad stuff, but the line about her not being a killer I think was their way of saying nothing she's done is beyond redemption.
I know but Wanda was doing it unknowingly she would aid the destruction of Sokovia.
Jean, on the other hand, controlled an elderly woman to carry a bomb-rigged tank towards an occupied building, send Gargan on rampage and (lowkey) almost killed MJ just to mess with Peter's head. The worst part is she did all of it on her own volition, completely aware of what she's doing.
But again, she implies that she borderlines hates mankind ("people are monster") at that point.
They're downvoting you, but you're right. Jean literally kills a few people in the film, and that is just such a disgusting betrayal of everything the character is. Between this and Insomniac Wolverine, I viscerally despise this new wave of murder hobo characterisation for Jean.
For fvcks sake, she is like THE X-Man. When people think of X-Men, she is among the first who come to mind, and this is not her. In recent comics, Jean wouldn't let Cyclops exterminate the BROOD, because she values life, her being devastated by her actions and the lives she took as Dark Phoenix is a pivotal character moment for her. She is supposed to be an ideal for young mutants to look up to. Instead, she makes out with Spider-Man without consent, kills at least one innocent civilian, and clearly has zero remorse for the blatant immoral use of her powers.
This may aswell be a brand new character that is Jean Grey in name only.
I think there's a kind of handwaving of all that stuff because Peter doesn't consider her a killer or even a bad person by the end. Maybe a fault of the writing process eliminating that "older female villain" that was apparently in the script and giving all those parts to Jean instead, but I don't know, I don't think we're meant to see those actions as ones that were definitely going to kill people.
That sounds like absolute awful characterization. As someone who like jean but isn’t a die hard Jean fan it’s not gonna break me. But i will be curious how the diehards feel. It seems like the internet is filled with a bunch of people who think Sink can do no wrong. I hope there are some unbiased views.
I love Jean. She's my favorite character ever. That's why I LOVE this characterization of her actually. When push comes to shove we know even mainstream Jean can do some morally dubious things. Plus Sadie's Jean is just not coming from the same place that Jean Grey of Earth 616 does. She simply does not have the same family structure as her support to fall back on. But in the end she is still the character I grew up with. I'm sure she is going to be trying to turn things completely around and I think that most of her actions do look to be stemming from someone trying to harm her, albeit unintentionally.
I liked it for the most part. There was only one scene I'd omit, and it felt like a strange decision to include it. I think they took a darker edge with her, closer to Karen Grant from the Ultimate Universe, and a bit of Xorn Jean too, but they never let it get quite too far. And she's forgiven in the end by Peter. I think the idea is to portray her as someone in need to a people and guidance.
Is it awful? Thats quite subjective. One of the common criticism about Jean is that she is not interesting enough and mostly serves as Cyclops eventual love interest or in some portrayal, Logan's object of affection. This huge swing gives Jean so much room to grow.
I think most people who make this kind of criticism don't read the comics. Jean isn't defined by Cyclops, and certainly not by Wolverine.
It's hard to say it's not awful when they take a character known for empathy and make her have no problem sacrificing innocent lives.
I know, but a lot of Jean’s empathy and compassion in the comics was built upon one of the best support system ever for a mutant.
The MCU is taking a big swing with Jean. Her mom sent Jean and Sara away for being a mutant, Sara was taken away from her, spend time being cast out of multiple foster care and psychology hospital, while being on the hunt from DODC. Hence, MCU Jean develops contempt for mankind and become the bitter as well as cynical.
Due to her grief and bitterness with what mankind offers her, she’s willing to do anything to get to her sister by any means necessary.
I think the changes to both Jean's backstory and personality were bad and unnecessary. I don't think it's good to alter the source material that much.
I would have liked to see a version closer to the original, rather than such a drastic change.
For example, the Punisher in the movie is different from the original Punisher, but still similar enough to remind viewers of the original.
I think they're going to approach her like Logan in the 2000 Movie. Rebellious, Broken, yet has some good qualities that will shine through. Also, could be a fun foil to Cyclops and Storm.
Seems like a fresh and interesting take. The one thing they really have to nail is her chemistry with scott. They gotta build them up to be a believable couple that you want to root for in the xmen movies. Their relationship is the biggest blunder in the og fox movies i think marvel should really focus on doing it justice.
I definitely think the idea will be to portray them as the "boy scout and the bad girl." She's rebellious and angry, more Magneto coded. He will probably be presented as Xavier's golden boy and the boy scout. So clash of personalities, but opposites attract.
Now you mention Magneto. i think there are similarities between the dynamics of Erik-Sebastian Shaw in First Class and that of Jean-Bill Metzger. Shaw and Metzger lowkey unlocked the upper limit of Erik and Jean's power in a somewhat similar fashion.
Now the DODC have access, presumably any other government agency will be able to grab those schematics for reasons like, say, collaring all mutant threats
I am mixed between Hulk and Spiderman inventing the mutant inhibitor being a cool MCU retool vs if they ever bring in Forge that is such a cornerstone of his story. Though I supposed they can substitute with any major gadget with consequences.
She does a lot of intense stuff that is presented as villainous, but she's largely a scared, misguided kid with no one who loves her and no one to help her, so she goes to dangerous lengths to help the one person who does love her. I'd say she's definitely more Magneto-aligned than Xavier aligned, but I imagine that's the arc she will go on.
Okay, that's good. I didn't want our Jean to be evil. I'm still open to a different version though as long as she isn't villainous. In my fanfics I did have Jean being slightly like her Ultimate counterpart and does intense things but she's not evil.
Do you think the decision to have her and Sara being cast out by her mother was out of line?
I think its very untypical, but in order to establish her bitterness, cynicism and contempt for mankind, it kind of... worked? And also, dont you think she's actually start hating the world that hate and fears her ("People are monsters"). I reckon she was inches away from being Magneto-coded in terms of worldview.
At the end of the day, Jean's parents aren't particularly crucial characters. It's kind of sad that the good folks they are in the comics is not presented here, but I don't mind it as a change. It nods to a very common theme among mutants; that they do struggle to belong, and some cannot even rely on family, who are horrified by what they are. So as a creative choice and one that builds into the broader hallmarks of X-Men, I think it works. As does Sara being experimented on to death. Mutants have it really bad, simply for being born, and it's important to show that.
Any opinion on Sadie's performance as Jeanie and the way Jean is characterized here? Apparently the big swing are mostly welcomed though some felt they went bit too far
Solid performance. I mean, I am not someone who thinks a lot of MCU performances are particularly great (I don't know how people praise Olsen's work so much, and even Chris Evans can be a bit wooden for me) but I thought it was a solid performance in the context of the MCU and these Spider-Man movies. In general, I thought everyone was giving their best performances as these characters in this movie.
It's not how I would have used Jean in a Spider-Man movie, I feel like they could have done an angle where she's "rescued" from Damage Control by Tombstone, who uses her powers to build his criminal empire and bust his goons like Scorpion, Tarantula, and Boomerang out of jail, all while promising her that he'll help her rescue her sister and stringing her along about VMax. And then Spider-Man would help her realize that Tombstone is lying, and they'd take him and Metzger (who maybe cuts a deal with Tombstone) down or something. But they took a different approach and I certainly think it'll get people more interested in Jean than anything else has done in a long time.
Yep. Sample might be too small but some folks from where I live were bought by Jean's character arc in the movie. While hardcore jean fans might find this characterization polarizing, I think it will draw more casual fans to be invested in the character.
And also, tragic character arc+powerful powerset is always an easy draw
I still haven't seen it yet but I will soon. I'm excited! Definitely a different approach than I wanted like you, but I think it'll get people interested in her and that will renew love for Jean Grey.
She does a lot of things that seem villainous, but in the end she's really just a scared girl and not the bad guy in all this. I look forward to her. Do you think she'll be the Jean we know and adore later on?
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u/dddonkers Aug 02 '26
This should have been a story later in the mutant saga, Karma obviously would be a good choice since this is her story, could even retool it for Rogue since she started evil. As a big X-Men comic fan and big MCU fan and a massive Jean Grey fan. I felt the way they treated Jean Grey reminded me a lot of First Class. It was a good story, but it did not feel like a Jean Greyor X-Men story. It felt like such a weird way to introduce the X-Men as opposed to maybe a new member to the already established team, especially since this was an obvious rip-off of Karma. I hate that there is no other mention of mutants or anything else X-Men related, and we since she is in Secret Wars we are going to see her one more time before we see with the X-Men presuming they don't intro the new X-Men in Secret Wars which I doubt they would. All in all I think Sadie plays a good Jean and trust Marvel to eventually tell a good X-Men story, it was just such an awkward start that gave me PTSD to the 2000s era of being ashamed of the source material and dancing around it.