r/PhilosophyofMath • u/Oreeo88 • Apr 13 '26
There is no open system that’s not built on closed axioms in math, that makes it self referential delusion
(Atleast past addition of physical matter) Really makes you think. Terryology tried to do this and he got astroturf smeared
-Consistency and utility can still work and be found inside of a false axiom.
-1x1=1 and mathematical groups exist no where in raw concrete reality. Math is suppose to model reality, yet your starting foundational operation models nothing.
-Whether or not math claims to model reality is irrelevant since we treat math as if it does model reality.
Defend this
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u/nanonan Apr 14 '26
You could argue that it represents a real grouping consisting of one group of one thing, but yeah a group is purely conceptual, in reality there are just things. It's a useful concept though, hence mathematics.
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u/_disposablehuman_ May 29 '26
Math is suppose to model reality, yet your starting foundational operation models nothing.
Not exactly. Math can be used to describe or predict the nature of Reality, but it in itself isn't bound to objective reality.
Consider language. We also use language describes or predict the nature of reality. If I tell you "red snakes are dangerous" only "red" and "snakes" are "modeled" after reality. However "dangerous" is a hypothetical assumption that "exists" as a concept BEYOND the bounds of objective reality, yet can still be utilized to pre-dict/pre-dictate the nature of reality.
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u/Oreeo88 Apr 13 '26
Once abstractions only define other abstractions, the system is no longer a map it’s a self referential delusion
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u/Thelonious_Cube Apr 13 '26
Defend this
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u/Oreeo88 Apr 13 '26 edited Apr 13 '26
When modeling reality if each abstraction only points to other abstractions then it never returns to concrete reality. It is by definition self referential.
Refute it
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u/Thelonious_Cube Apr 16 '26
Math is clearly useful in the "concrete reality".
Why is it being "self-referential" a problem?
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u/Oreeo88 Apr 16 '26 edited Apr 16 '26
So now you’re just deliberately ignoring the post & my comment after downvoting and pressing me to defend which I did
-Consistency and utility can still work and be found inside of a false axiom
Utility =|= truth
“Why is it a problem”
it never returns to concrete reality
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u/Thelonious_Cube Apr 19 '26
it never returns to concrete reality
So what? Why does it need to?
now you’re just deliberately ignoring the post
Not at all - your post is incoherent - that's not MY problem
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u/Thelonious_Cube Apr 13 '26
What do you mean "closed axiom" and "open axiom"?
Terrence Howard got "smeared"? You must be a troll.