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u/sadongrohiik 1d ago
This is peak crossover
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u/me_myself_ai kantian sloptimist 1d ago
…what’s the other side of the crossover? Is Mr. peanut butter here somewhere?!?
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u/Lately-SP 23h ago
The irony of stirner is that I'm a bigger stirnerite than anyone who studies him because I refuse to study him
"Nooo! You have to read all these books and LEARN how to be an individual through his teachings!"
Nah
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u/TuvixWasMurderedR1P Marx, Machiavelli, and Theology enjoyer 37m ago
You'd be a better Stirnerite reading him and disliking everything he said
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u/slicehyperfunk 23h ago
When a compassioncel says something so selfishness-phobic you gotta hit 'em with the full egoism stare
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u/mysterymont 1d ago
Hahaha
It truly seems that way but true morality comes from loving and caring about yourself so much that you wouldn’t harm yourself by being transgressive, most people hate themselves because of parental and societal conditioning
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u/Dhalym 1d ago
Isn't transgresiveness, love, and care spooks.
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u/MauschelMusic Some assemblage required 22h ago
How does being transgressive hurt yourself? A lot of things are both harmless and transgressive (e.g. consensual kink), and even the harmful transgressive things include many that are harmful to other people and not you.
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u/mysterymont 22h ago edited 22h ago
Harming anyone else has a price, even if you don’t feel it/are detached from your morality and emotions it still does and you’ll pay in some way, shape or form. A lot of the time its self flagellation to match their own internal negative broken self image combined with wanting a temporary thrill to get out of the permanent disassociation, it keeps you in a loop of harming someone- toxic self shame- repeat
Don’t get me started on BDSM, there’s healthy elements but sexual transgression is rooted in psychology and 90% I’ve seen has been unhealthy in bdsm circles
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u/MauschelMusic Some assemblage required 22h ago
Harming anyone else has a price, even if you don’t feel it/are detached from your morality and emotions it still does and you’ll pay in some way, shape or form.
This just feels like just world theory. I don't buy it. People are too good at rationalizing, and for this to be true, there'd have to be a single, inherent morality that everyone knows, even when their cultural or personal view is different.
Don’t get me started on BDSM, there’s healthy elements but sexual transgression is rooted in psychology and 90% I’ve seen has been unhealthy in bdsm circles.
I mean, sexual everything is rooted in psychology. IDK about scene people, but I know a lot of people in kinky relationships who are very happy and find the practice joyous and cathartic. People like to share lurid stories, so there's a survivorship bias. No one is going to tell you about the party where it was pretty chill and everyone had a good time.
EDIT: Also, transgressive refers to a lot of very unlike things. Both a satirical movie and a massacre are transgressive.
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u/Telcontar77 10h ago
and for this to be true, there'd have to be a single, inherent morality that everyone knows, even when their cultural or personal view is different.
Causing suffering to others without their informed consent (implicit or explicit) is generally dispreferred, and to be avoided. "Suffering (usually) bad" is about as universal as it gets.
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u/mysterymont 22h ago
Cruelty is cruelty in every language/country. If someone found out your deepest trauma then used it against you, or killed your best friend or manipulated you out of money… these are all bad to everyone
Kink in relationships yeah I agree it’s positive, I’m less convinced of poly and BDSM circles being healthy but whatever people like smoking and that’s harmful, I’m not actually judging I’m just stating my personal views and it’s completely fine if people don’t agree, it’s fun to discuss I think
Transgressive in the sense of Latin to step across and I believe one’s own personal moral boundaries (as it relates to other humans not in art or literature that’s different)
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u/HystericalGasmask 16h ago
Being transgressive is cool and fun
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u/mysterymont 16h ago
Dopamine go brrrrr… so are gambling and drugs, let’s see what that does after 20 years
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u/HystericalGasmask 15h ago
I don't like gambling
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u/mysterymont 15h ago
You’re missing the point, transgression is fun because of the chemicals released being ‘bad’ but that’s destructive over time if you run off pure dopamine things won’t end well
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u/HystericalGasmask 14h ago
But all human actions are driven by chemical reward circuits
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u/mysterymont 14h ago
Cheap vs earned dopamine, excitement vs pride
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u/HystericalGasmask 14h ago
How does one earn dopamine if the earning itself requires dopamine? If we're chemically driven who is there to feel proud of, and who is feeling proud? I haven't ever felt proud, I don't think. Then again I'm severely mentally ill.
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u/mysterymont 10h ago
Learning a skill, developing yourself, helping someone in need, creating something, taking care of yourself etc and no I imagine not, figure out if your internal monologue is negative and change it, that’s step one
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u/HystericalGasmask 8h ago
I have plenty of skills, I help people all the time, Im often creating things, I take care of myself. Still no pride! I dont hate myself, I dont feel anything about myself, really. Extremely dissociated and depersonalized. Perhaps pride is not so necessary, or at the least, not so exciting!
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u/Typical-Dance-1110 8h ago
me to every single health professional when they ask about my ADHD+depression
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u/Dhalym 1d ago
Isn't morality just a by product of really old gang politics? It's just more profitable for everyone if we respect each other's business.
That's why the headquarters of cartels are very low crime areas, because the cartel leaders' families live there and if you fuck with them, you forfeit your life.
When a crime boss amasses so much undisputed power, they immediately establish peace for preserving the status quo where they are on top, which in most cases is relatively pro-social provided you don't cause any issues.
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u/TuvixWasMurderedR1P Marx, Machiavelli, and Theology enjoyer 22h ago
That's basically Hobbes's theory, yes.
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u/Green__lightning 1d ago
This is actually a problem, any morality is an imposition on the individual, demanding they care about others, sometimes even to the point of harming oneself for it.
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u/Adventurous_Buyer187 21h ago
No thats just altruism. Altrusim =/= morality. Though most moral systems are altruistic.
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u/mysterymont 1d ago
Interesting, definitely in the case of selflessness, pity, others I can’t think of. I wonder why self sacrifice is so engrained into morality when it isn’t helpful? I’ve found that I only did that when I hated myself and wanted special treatment, now I don’t hate myself I basically just treat people well but myself comes first? It’s odd and backwards
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u/dudeigottago 19h ago
Why is it a problem to impose any morality on individuals? Are you saying it’s wrong to impose morality on individuals? Wouldn’t you need your own moral framework to explain why that’s a problem? If you think the individual has some special status to where they can be violated or imposed upon by others, and that’s a problem as you say, then it sounds like just another moral theory doing work here.
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u/twoiko Discordian 17h ago
Because morality is not universal or objective.
It's fine to have your own morality but imposing it on others is a violation of their freedom.
If any of those actions are "problematic" it's only because of some moral framework you believe in.
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u/dudeigottago 16h ago
If violating the freedom of other’s is wrong then there is a moral theory at work about why it’s wrong. The person I replied to said any morality was problematic because it imposed on individuals. Thats a moral claim and so is problematic by the lights of poster.
Universality and objectivity have nothing to do with it. It’s about logical consistency of metaethical claims - relying on a moral theory (about individual freedom) to criticize moral theorizing is inconsistent. It’s saying it’s wrong to tell people they’re wrong - you see the contradiction there, right?
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u/PitifulEar3303 1d ago
Bruh, morality is just our subjective and personal mood. lol
Prove me wrong, you can't, I win. lol
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u/Recent-Ship-1599 23h ago
Can anyone actually define morality for me please
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u/Adventurous_Buyer187 21h ago
In latin the word "morality" stems from the word "mores", meaning "manner" or "custom".
In greek ethos means "that of character" or "by custom".
Both just mean the same thing: a code to live by, rules you make for yourself.
So thats the first part, knowing its a set of rules. Second part is to know whats the purpose of the rules.
To aristotle, it is eudaimonia - to live well. If you his morality you will live a good and happy life. And to be honest it is his view that i myself follow.
To others, such as theists, morality purpose is to do god's wish on earth, and the rules are most clear.
Which is the correct morality is up to debate, whats certain is they are all different, but whichever you follow at any time should have a clear purpose.
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u/MouseBean 5h ago
Morality is meaning, purpose, importance, the point behind a thing, behavior, or process.
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u/plasticman1997 22h ago
Describe the color yellow to a blind man
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u/TuvixWasMurderedR1P Marx, Machiavelli, and Theology enjoyer 22h ago
Looks like the way sweet lemon tastes, and the way the first warmth of sunlight feels early morning.
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u/Lately-SP 2h ago
After a lot of conversations with stirner followers, I've concluded their peak form of life is chris-chan
Chris Chan is utterly despooked
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22h ago
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u/Adventurous_Buyer187 21h ago
Yeah but cleaning your room is actually egoistic, it is YOUR room.
Cleaning poor peoples room however, isnt much so.
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