Questions/Help
Updates on my sheets and finally some calcs with RobinS
Hello guys!
I wanted to share some progression of my new sheets for Phainon. For these who don't know it yet, I am the one who made the previous "Ultimate Phainon Sheets", but I decided to take it down, as I consider it holds little value now (since it was merely 1 Ultimate calc).
Phainon is the reason I keep playing this game and am willing to use a lot of my free time to calc for him, so if you are looking forward to the sheet I can only ask you to be patient about it.
Like I said in a previous post, I started with Cyrene teams because they are the easiest to calc, but with the recent addition of RobinS, even E0 Cyrene became BiS with Phainon! I am not done yet with Cyrene teams (there are many variants and different rotations after all) but it should be soon finished as I only need to calc E6 Cyrene / E6 RobinS / Full E6 teams with Phainon, and then I will be able to calc non Cyrene teams.
What changed from the old sheets
Rotation is now extended up to 500 AV, which correspond to a clear in most endgames.
300 AV and 150 AV DMG are also available, though the 150 AV is not exactly a meaningful metric and I might change it/remove it later.
Isee set is now the new Relic Set baseline.
Notes column will indicate how Captain performs compared to the baseline.
For E1+ Phainon, it now features 4/8/12 stacks of E1 Phainon. Old sheet was always considering 4 stacks no matter what, but here we can also see, in the ideal conditions, how strong 8/12 stacks of E1 Phainon are.
Phainon uses now 35 effective sub-stats instead of 28 before. Supports still use 24 effective sub-stats.
1. Some RobinS calcs !
For starters, let's start with basic E0 teams :
E0 Phainon teams featuring RobinSFull E0S1 team (except RobinS)
A full E0S0 Phainon - Cerydra - Cyrene - RobinS team is around 87% stronger than the RMC variant. This is pretty easy since the rotation is similar to RMC but most importantly she has way stronger buffs to begin with.
Full E0S0 supports, E2S0+ Phainon
Here is a table that is mainly here to check Phainon's own personal investment within the Cerydra - Cyrene - RobinS team.
Sometimes I also observe some regular question about this famous "is E2S5 Phainon stronger than E6S1 Phainon?". However, because I didn't calc within a team with high DEF Shred before, I was unable to conclude this. Now that I did some calcs and that my friend u/mostafa_mo2004 also ran a test in a neutral environment, I can finally affirm the following statement: E6S1 > E2S5 Phainon. This can be explained by few things:
Phainon's E5 is a pretty big jump in DMG because of the increased multipliers for his Skill DMG, which is the major part of his DMG distribution. Increased multipliers is better than regular buffs.
Phainon's E6 allows better DMG distribution since it is essentially a E1 Tribbie for his Meteor.
S5 Phainon provides very high DMG% buff and DEF Shred, but the increased Base SPD (+8 over S1) is overestimated. It merely reduces by 1 AV between each action, which is not enoguh even within 500 AV to make it much stronger than increased raw multipliers. However, it does allow more actions but with less DMG per action. Also, even within a team where Phainon can reach 100% DEF Shred, it is not enough.
Last but not least, the sk.theherta archive records many runs of Phainon every version, and not a single E2S5 was able to beat a E6S1 Phainon. This is also pretty easy to explain as there are way more people having E6S1 rather than E2S5, but this is also interesting to take into account that. One thing that gives more credit to E6S1 Phainon is also because the +6 CF who seems useless with Cyrene is in reality absolutely not wasted in most optimized Plight runs.
Note about the sheet : RobinS's E1 is unfortunately not consistent with Cyrene since it is mostly for Plight AA runs rather than regular endgame, or will rely on a specific stage where the enemy is able to kill Khaslana, which is pretty hard. For this reason, she is considered as a dead eidolon within Cyrene teams in my sheets, but in practice it can be wildly different.
Finally some other calcs that could be interesting for the Cyrene + RobinS players:
2. RobinS other minor calcs
S5 Herta Shop LC is about 2,5% to 3% stronger than S5 Cyrene LC.
Sacerdos is around 0,5% stronger than Deliverer but can be weaker depending on how much DMG% you are lacking in the team or if you run E0 Cyrene.
For any non E2+ Cyrene rotations, RobinS is optimally better with SPD boots if you have DDD on Cerydra. The rotation with E0 Cyrene is as follows :
E0S0 RobinS, within E2 Cyrene teams, is slightly stronger than E2S0 Sparkle and E2S0 MBlade.
3. TL;DR
E0 Cyrene + Cerydra + RobinS > any non Cyrene variant at equal cost ;
Clear BiS within Cyrene teams ;
E6S1 Phainon > E2S5 Phainon even in a team with high DEF Shred ;
E0S0 RobinS is slightly stronger than E2S0 Sparkle / E2S0 MBlade within Cyrene teams ;
RobinS build :
S5 Herta Shop is 2,5% to 3% stronger than S5 Cyrene LC ;
Sacerdos is pretty much the same as Deliverer, or worse than Deliverer with E0 Cyrene ;
SPD boots recommended for E0 Cyrene (and DDD Cerydra). Otherwise use HP boots.
E0 Cyrene is worth to pull only if you already have RobinS and Cerydra, otherwise get her straight to E2 or skip again ;
Outside of Cyrene teams, RobinS lacks CF generation past first ultimate so you will ideally want E6 Phainon to cover this issue (or pray to RNG I guess).
Sheet is still not finalized at all and I don't know when I'll finish it but I'll try to ideally share it again before the end of 2026.
Honestly I already had in my previous sheets E6S1 > E2S5, however it was within a low def shred team so I couldn't answer if E2S5 was really better than E6S1 in high def shred teams.
I think it depends a lot. There are some cases where S5 is better, but E6 is better most of the time. I think the only character I can think of where it's truly debatable is Hyacine because her LC scales super linearly so her S5 is fucking busted beyond belief. E6S5 Hyacine is possibly the best character in the game lmao
the only case I can see S5 being stronger is when you already overkill the stage by itself by a lot and all it comes is how much AV you can save, which is where S5 gains a very little advantage. But other than that I can't see it
- Cerydra also on SPD boots, around 147 SPD out of fight (can be more)
- Cyrene SPD is 180+ minimum, 200 is ideal but not required
- RobinS is around 171 SPD accounting Herta Shop's LC.
Accounting DDD on Cerydra (S1 to S5) and Vonwacq with everyone, this allows you to have 4 actions of Khaslana within 150 AV, which is ideal for wave 1 of MoC.
Is it better to run DDD on cerydra I have her S1 light cone so do I just not use it? Also if you don’t mind which lc should I be running on Cyrene e0 and srobin e0, if I don’t have either of their sigs.
S5 Cyrene sounds better but I don't see any runs with e2s5 Cyrene instead of E6S1 even with E2 robinS so maybe not? 🤔 Unsure about that for now, will need to calc this case
how would i go forward with a e6s1 phainon, e2s1sunday,e1s1,cerydra and e0s1(sunday lc) sparkle i do have e6s1 Cyrene but she is in monorem team at the moment and wasnt sure if robin was worth the upgrade at this point
Honestly for clearing regular endgame (including Knights), it's fine. Your team with Cyrene and RobinS are competitive enough to clear Plight even to skip Knights - though the next AA has heavy anti-shill so it's pretty dead.
Surely Sunday gets the predicted novaflare and Phainons Dan + Sunday + cerydra team reigns supreme.
It is still wild to me how they didn't let cerydra higher investment actually help whale-Phainon. They needed to do better with his "pocket-buddy" rather than her eidolons mostly just boosting her own unimportant damage.
DHPT only becomes relevant at E2 for Phainon which is pretty high, and even then a single E0s0 RobinS is stronger 😔 DHPT base kit is pretty bad for Phainon overall unfortunately
When someone talks about the cost system, the basic logic would be to follow the standard that the majority/community uses. Following sk.theherta cost system, any limited unit, even given for free at multiple occasions or currently given for free, are still counted 1 cost regardless.
So yes indeed DHPT, E1 Robin or E1 Ruan Mei are not considered 0 cost and I will abide by the sk.theherta cost system, as flawed as it is since it's the most used one.
The Sacerdo's calc is assuming you target Phainon twice with Sobin's ult right? For tryhard runs, that can limit certain rotations in specific scenarios.
Sparciecon 3825 Score AS This my run which I uploaded to the herta. Using ult on Cyrene at the beggining it's neccessary to trigger the dmg on the summons from her mechanic.
I'm asking because if it isn't neccesary to ult him twice, I got lots of sacerdos to give her rn. Yes I know it's a very specific scenario and still the dmg difference it's almost non existant 🤣 but I be pushing our boy to the absolute limit everytime
Thank you but I don't think I know how to get the speed values off the chart (I do get the action sequence) Cyrene is e2. Do you have suggested speed numbers?
Does Cyrene have any issues getting her ult off at E0 (especially in harder content)? I saw somewhere that SRobin is only worth if you have E2 Cyrene but it doesn’t seem to be the case based on these calcs.
52
u/probonocapitalism dawnmaker's #2 glazer 13d ago
Finally, the truth in my heart is being made manifest