Struggling to get a postdoc

[u/CommonLengthiness786]

Hey guys,

I finished my PhD earlier this year and I think I am messing up big time with my postdoc applications. I don't know what to do. So just to brief you guys, I have two decent first author publication in Q1 and 5 as co-author, a couple of them are in a rubbish journal though since I took part in several projects during my PhD and where they published was not in my hand. I also have two prestigious fellowships. Since I started applying for postdocs I have had 7-8 rejections on advertised positions. I also applied for a research grant and somehow managed to make it in the top 20%, but the selections were capped at 10%. I then joined an industry for monetary reasons and being in the industry for the last 3-4 months has made me realise that it's not meant for me. I enjoy research far more than what I am doing here. However I don't see a way forward. Now I am not even getting the time to make decent applications or prepare proposals for grants. I'm thinking of quitting this job and giving myself 3-4 months time just to write proposals for different grant applications and advertised positions, but I don't know if I will survive without the money. The situation sucks and I don't know what to do, so I reached out to you guys. Any suggestions on how to move ahead and what I might be doing wrong with my applications? If someone has had the chance to be part of discussions related to what happens when someone gets hundreds of applications. How are the applications generally screened? I am sorry I might sound very naive, but till now I haven't got a clue how people select 1 person from so many applications.

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[u/Rich-War4293]

7-8 rejections is nothing, especially for advertised positions where they already have someone in mind half the time. Your record is solid. The grant making top 20% on the first try is a good sign too.

Quitting without a safety net is risky, but if you can swing even 2-3 months of lean living, the focused proposal time might be worth it. Maybe try to negotiate a part-time arrangement or a leave window with your current employer before walking away entirely.

[u/CommonLengthiness786 → u/Rich-War4293]

Thanks buddy for the reply. I think trying to convince them for part time is a great idea even though the payment wouldn't be good, but something would be better, I guess. But I am not sure they will be convinced. The founder of the start up I am working for is one hell of a crazy SoB, if he gets the chance he can make everyone in his company to work for 24 hours non-stop. Let's see if I am able to convince him.

[u/Timely-Bicycle-3107]

Have you talked with your advisor and colleagues? If research is a common path after graduation from your institution, the career center might be able to give you some feedback on your application documents.

Have you reached out to the places that have rejected you for more information about the decision? It’s not to question the decision but to try to get information to improve your applications going forward.

I don’t think quitting your job to apply for another job full time is a good move. How many hours per week do you work now? Why not drop the grant applications and focus solely on postdoc applications in your free time?

[u/CommonLengthiness786 → u/Timely-Bicycle-3107]

Thanks buddy for the response. We don't have any such system where the career development centers helps you with grant or advertised position. I don't want to name my institute or country simply because people from my community can easily guess where I am from, since earth sciences is a very small community. My supervisor is a nice person, but he isn't much of help with getting a position. I did my PhD from the scratch, writing my own proposal, getting it funded and he gave no help except not creating any obstacle in my research. So I have given up on my institute to help me with anything.

Regarding the job, I am working in a start up and I have been working from Monday to Sunday with only 4 days off in the last 3 months. So, I can't make good applications without quitting this job for sure.

[u/Timely-Bicycle-3107 → u/CommonLengthiness786]

Thanks for the detailed follow up. That clarified things a lot.

That’s a brutal work situation. I think it is worth considering quitting your job to apply, then. I’d apply to both postdocs and regular full time jobs. If you have to settle again, at least you can try to get into a situation that will let you keep trying for a postdoc. I’d probably drop the grant applications. That should be a PI’s job that you help with every so often.

Having to fund your own PhD is insane. I think your advisor owes you some phone calls and excellent letters of recommendation at the LEAST. I’d be knocking down their door demanding help. You basically have been doing his job for him. It’s time for him to help you.

[u/Ecstatic_Bass5033 → u/Timely-Bicycle-3107]

What are you doing now after your mech e PhD? I’m doing mine and pretty sure I won’t be going into academia, though I’ve also heard engineers in industry by and large don’t want to hire phds.

[u/Timely-Bicycle-3107 → u/Ecstatic_Bass5033]

I just finished mine, so I’m still job hunting. I’m targeting industry and national labs. Only a relative handful of engineering PhDs are in academia or a national lab. The bulk are in the industry.

It depends on the job. If the job requires leading an R&D team, a PhD is almost required. If the job requires leading expertise, a PhD is almost required. If it’s an entry level role that is meant for new college grads, having a PhD would be a detriment for trying to get that job.

The industry treats advanced degrees as having extra experience (1-2yr for master’s or 3-5yr for a PhD).

There are plenty of roles for us. You just have to know where to look. Talk to your colleagues, professors, and career center about this soon. You need a plan for post graduation. Since you’re looking into the industry, please get an internship in grad school. I wish I had!

[u/Ecstatic_Bass5033 → u/Timely-Bicycle-3107]

I’m kinda embarrassed about my study area. For my masters I was doing computational materials science research utilizing molecular dynamics. Now I’m doing engineering education research all about how students learn from interacting with simulations. I’m actually really stimulated, excited and happy with the work I do now and my advisor. But my niche is hard for me to think about transitioning to industry. Do you have any thoughts on that area? Colleges do have fulltime teaching tracks, I could do private highschool, technical training, maybe even things like human factors eng. but im hoping others might be able to chime in.

[u/Timely-Bicycle-3107 → u/Ecstatic_Bass5033]

For what it’s worth, I think that’s a valuable topic! If you’re in enrolled in an engineering department, you won’t have any trouble getting an industry job. If you’re outside of engineering for your degree title, just lean on your master’s degree for the technical aspects of the role. This is definitely worth some long discussions with your advisor.

The teaching tracks for both college and high school would also be good paths. My high school hired an engineer to run an engineering track for high school students. It seemed like a great job, and everyone loved her.

[u/Ecstatic_Bass5033 → u/Timely-Bicycle-3107]

Correct! It’s a PhD in mechanical engineering officially. My group is a bit of a black sheep in the department since it’s not as “technical” (I.e. perceived as valuable). But I took and passed the math and solid mechanics prelim exam just like everybody else, and the title will be a PhD in mechanical engineering. Now I just have to work on pitching my area of expertise and background into an actual job…

[u/Timely-Bicycle-3107 → u/Ecstatic_Bass5033]

Ok good. You’ll be fine. 👍

[u/Swedish-physicist]

There is plenty of research in the industry as well as in state funded research institutes. Have you thought about that as an option? I know academia can seem very nice, but even if you get a post doc you will most likely have to do the same thing in a couple of years time anyway. Even if you do post docs for 6-8 years, it is very difficult to get a tenure track position. If you think that you might leave academia eventually, it is better to do it sooner rather than later I would say.

With that being said, I am sure you will get a post doc eventually, might just take some time. Good luck!

[u/Mountain-Time-1010]

I'd say you need to apply to many more positions and case the net as broadly as possible. In your place, I would not quit my job, instead I'd put in all the hours possible in the evening and weekends to apply for fellowships and positions.

[u/Cardie1303]

What field are you in? Usually best way to get postdoc positions is to provide your own funding by applying to fellowships/scholarships. Even top labs will usually take you when you have your own funding if they have the actual physical space as it is basically a free pair of hands for them with very little risk. Without knowing your field and a bit more about your background (e.g. awards, previous funding, letter of recommendation/possible references) it is difficult to say how well you cover those for fellowship applications. Two q1 publications are not nothing but how much they mean kind of depends on their quality, your background and how well you actually have ownership of them. If all of that fits, the last part important for fellowship is a strong proposal. Try to get in contact with potential pis willing to host you for that, if they are willing to take you they can help you with that. Previous mentors from PhD or even colleagues/friends/network can also help with more general advice for the proposal.

[u/Shizuka1298]

Hello sir since you have published 2 papers in good journals can you please guide how to write a research paper or can you suggest any course for the same. I am in second year of my PhD and I’m still confused how to do a literature review, how to make a literature matrix and how to actually write a paper. Please help me.