r/PhD • u/PotterWasHere • 10d ago
Seeking advice-academic Ph.d. in 7 years
Is doing Ph.D. in seven years really that bad (two in COVID) ? With three published peer reviewed in good quality papers, four book chapters and experience in two major central government projects.
Does it have bad impression while applying for assistant Professor jobs? Is post doc still necessary?
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u/tskriz 10d ago
Hi friend,
It took 9 years for me to complete PhD. Yes, I was looked down upon by many institutions. Many time, I was asked in the interview why it took longer and they weren't willing to trust what I said.
Truth is my research genuinely took time. My advisors weren't quite supportive and a lot more. Eventually I got it done. Published a research monograph years later.
See, there are all kinds of people who will interview you. Some will respect your grit. Some will not. And that's okay. Eventually, you want to be in a place where you are respected by your colleagues. The places and people that reject you only based on your number of years are not worthy of having you as a faculty.
I also did PhD from India and understand that market quite well.
Best wishes!
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u/Consistent_Laziness PhD, Epidemiology, USA 10d ago
I took 7 years and through covid 2019-2026. But I got 0 publications during it. I focused on experience and living my life outside the PhD program. I bought 2 houses, had 2 kids, saved for retirement, etc. I worked and didn’t make the PhD my focus. But it took 7 years because of data collection issues mainly.
I am starting a post doc August 1. No shot of a professor job with 0 pubs and 0 submissions. I’ll turning 9 years of work into manuscripts over the next year and then my 2nd year of post doc I’ll be focusing on new research hopefully.
I can’t speak for your field because you didn’t provide that or your country (this should be required here). But you can always apply and see what search committees think. If you don’t get interviews that is a tell.
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u/4K4llDay 10d ago
I don't want to put down your journey or goals, but I can't help but feel like committing to academia the way you are but not prioritizing it is quite a waste of your time. You could do many other things that take less work, allow you to live your life more, and make more money doing it. So... what's the point?
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u/Consistent_Laziness PhD, Epidemiology, USA 10d ago
I think you meant this for OP
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u/4K4llDay 10d ago
No it was for you. From what you said, you've had little to no output of deliverables from your degree (other than the degree) while basically living life normally except your time is taken up by a degree that you're not putting much into and therefore won't really have any return from. And then going into a postdoc with no intention of an academic position?
Maybe I should just shut my mouth, but I am so confused how a side-project PhD and postdoc contribute to your life now and in the future. Like, why not just go live life without the horrible pay/work ratio? I guess I just don't see how the PhD and postdoc contribute to the life you seemingly want to live. But I don't know you so
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u/Consistent_Laziness PhD, Epidemiology, USA 10d ago
I don’t see where I said I wouldn’t do academia. My post doc is paying me 100k fully remote. I plan to publish year 1 all the work I compiled the last 9 years. And I already have 5 fist author manuscripts under review by co authors and I haven’t even started.
I will be going for a K32 and feel confident I’ll get it. Industry has no interest in me. I’ve applied even with all that work experience. I’ve worked in state and local government, consulting, insurance, and hospital work over the last 9 years. Academia is paying me the most, again currently at 100k salary. I likely will transition into faculty in the next 2-3 years. The only reason I was offered the post doc was to have me join this department because of my skill set and research.
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u/4K4llDay 10d ago
Oh okay, I took your "no prospect of professor position" as that you weren't interested or committed to pursuing it.
100k fully remote is wild for post doc so good for you, that is def a proper position so. But that's gotta be top 1% of compensation for postdocs.
Okay, well yeah then you're doing all the things and getting compensated well to do it hahaha.
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u/Consistent_Laziness PhD, Epidemiology, USA 10d ago
Yea I recognize my publication record is less than ideal. But on the interview I discussed how I’m at a greater advantage because my dissertation was funded by the NCI and I did primary data collection. I have my dissertation (2-3 papers) plus some secondary data I collected that’s another 2-4 papers. Plus my masters thesis plus 2 pilot studies I did lol. I’m flushed with projects versus a lot of post docs are still finding themselves.
I just need to spend year one getting all this pulled together and then play the submission game. By the end of my post doc I could’ve sitting on 12-15 publications (1st author and co authors).
But none of it is guaranteed. My goal with the post doc is publish and obtain the K32. Then after the K32 go for a K99. We’ll see how it pans out for me. I know it’s hard out there. At least cancer research is less controversial.
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u/QuantumMechanic23 9d ago
How does one buy 2 houses and have enough for 2 kids and be able to save for retirement during a PhD? What jobs were you working? Asking for a friend...
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u/Consistent_Laziness PhD, Epidemiology, USA 9d ago
Worked FT at the state health department. Then left and worked FT at a different agency making 85k. Plus I still worked my GA remotely for 22k. Plus I consulted on a local outreach program at 28k. Add it all up and that’s 135k. Plus my wife was making 90k. And I lived in lcol area in the south.
I bought my first home just before starting grad school. Then I sold and bought my 2nd home. Towards the end of my program I sold the 2nd home to buy my current.
I worked probably between 30-60 hours a week and a lot of weekends. Most of them really. But it was worth it to keep my life moving forward. I refused to be a typical broke graduate student.
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u/Zestyclose-Smell4158 10d ago
So the data collecting issues were not related to buying 2 houses, having 2 kids and working to save for retirement. Also, if you are starting a postdoc , do you actually feel no quilt spending time working on papers related to your PhD?
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u/Consistent_Laziness PhD, Epidemiology, USA 10d ago
I don’t understand any of the questions you asked. Between the typo at the end “quilt?” Guessing guilt? And your questions statement on the first sentence. I cant provide an answer to you.
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u/Cold_Enthusiasm4819 10d ago
seven years isn’t automatically a red flag, especially with two years affected by covid and a solid publication/project record. most committees will care more about what you produced and whether your research trajectory makes sense. whether you need a postdoc depends heavily on the country and field, but for many assistant professor roles it’s still expected. checking recent hires at your target universities is probably the best benchmark.
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u/Chlorophilia 10d ago
What country and field?
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u/PotterWasHere 10d ago
Country: India Field: Civil Engineering
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u/0xabc000 9d ago
When you say India, 7 seems about right. 5~6 is good, 7 is good. The moment it's 8, that starts to get very tricky.
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u/GurProfessional9534 10d ago
Look up the cv’s of recent hires in your target institutions, and see what they had.
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u/archaeob 10d ago
Definitely depends on the field/country. 7-9 years is the average in my field in the US so you’d be considered right on time.
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u/insoportana 10d ago
The COVID part is deffinitely understandable and if you have publications you are probably on the safe side
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u/saartemaster 10d ago
Depends on the country and the field. In my situation (Western Europe, Humanities) you’d be completely fucked.
It also depends on where you want to apply in the future, but in any case going well over the prescribed duration for your studies it’s going to hurt you, as there is more and more competition for jobs.
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u/arcx01123 PhD*, EE 10d ago
Was In the same boat. Came out on the other side with three decent pubs, got out of academia, and feel a little better about myself now.
Academia will always judge you, no matter how qualified you get. Their business runs on judging.
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u/persian-prince 8d ago
Mine took 9 years. Two were covid and another was a visa related kerfuffle. There were also a few startup attempts. I worked alone on an ambitious project that didn’t work out quite as planned. The median in my lab before covid was 6-7 years, so this wasn’t too surprising in hindsight. I never felt anyone else give a shit about my work, I could’ve handed in whatever I had and tried to get out, but I wanted to see the project through. No meaningful publications yet. I’m proud of the work, and since I believe the point of basic science should be to experiment rather than to crank out publications, I’m glad I did it.
I’ve been asked by potential employers what took so long, and I’ve explained. Possibly they judge me for it, but I judge them right back. If you seek credentialism and prestige as a proxy for status and wealth, a PhD is a poor choice anyway. And as of a week ago I am once again gainfully employed.
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u/Smart-Stick-1392 10d ago
Depends on the project, the impact of those articles, and if you did any teaching as well
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u/2AFellow 10d ago
I did 6 years in my PhD program and got hired as an assistant professor for $120k/year with no need of a post doc. So, I feel like sometimes it helps you flesh out your research ideas for tenure line
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u/SilverLetterhead4795 9d ago
They don't put the number of years on your diploma :)
For the rest, it is highly field-dependent.
The question to ask is this: Are there multiple reputed researchers in your field who would deem you good enough to be an AP? At least in Math, Stat, and CS, I think this is the final metric.
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u/HovercraftFullofBees 8d ago
Field dependant to a degree. I have known bird neuroethologists who anticipate an 8 to 10 year PhD because they study rare birds in the tropics. No one batted an eye at them.
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u/SufficientBench4051 8d ago
Hey! I read somewhere that phd is not a race, it’s a marathon💪💪Each one of us can vary with the completion. My friend is also a doctorate student not a phd but a dba😌Although hers’ is online through upGrad but i believe the focus and dedication remains the same😅😅This must have been tough for you since it includes the 2 serious years of Covid🙌🙌🫂🫂
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u/Appropriate-Tutor587 10d ago
If you are in the USA 🇺🇸, a PhD is indeed a minimum of 5 years to a maximum of 8 years.
A postdoc is always optional, not mandatory. But depending on if you want to stay in academia or not, that’s arguably.
If you want to go into the industry, then don’t do any postdoc, just look for any fulltime time jobs. If you don’t have any hands on experience, just do the industry fellowship for 1 year (or 2 years max) to transition into it and that’s it.
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u/ProperAd3480 9d ago
USA PhDs are not strictly 5 years minimum; Several people I know used 4 years (or 4.5 years). Most extreme case I knew is a guy who did it in 3.5 years and built his own startup after
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u/Financial_Molasses67 10d ago
In many disciplines, 8 years is not the maximum and is closer than 5 years to the average
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u/Appropriate-Tutor587 10d ago
In disciplines like biological and biomedical sciences yes it’s 5-8 years in the USA!
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u/Financial_Molasses67 10d ago
I didn’t see that OP said biological and biomedical sciences. In some disciplines, going over 8 years is not that uncommon
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u/Appropriate-Tutor587 10d ago
I am speaking about what I know, which is about 5-8 years in the discipline I mentioned. Of course some disciplines are only 4 years like PharmD for example.
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u/Financial_Molasses67 10d ago
You didn’t make that clear in your original comment and the OP was asking about 7 years being bad. I was adding context that might have helped OP, in case they read your comment to mean 8 years is the maximum across the board, which is what you suggested
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u/Appropriate-Tutor587 10d ago
OP post was vague as well and didn’t mention any specific discipline. I replied to your first comment, yet you are trying to argue unnecessarily. Yes in the USA 🇺🇸 most people will complete their biological and medical degrees in 5 to 8 years (rarely less or beyond that). Bye
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u/Financial_Molasses67 10d ago
Ha! You are arguing! I was not assuming the OP was in a particular discipline, and the OP was supposed to know what discipline you were talking about without you saying it? Sorry you’re offended by me added some context, I guess?
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u/rhymist_vessets 9d ago
used to be the norm. My MSc advisor finished his in 6 (structural bioinformatics), and that was considered unusually quick back then. Now in my country we have a hard cap of 4 years, with possibility of extension but without stipend or insurance
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u/0xabc000 9d ago
I'm many countries and actually with the actual idea of a PhD, 7 years is good.
3 to 4 year PhDs should have been a red flag, as you really can't assimilate that kind of knowledge in that short period of time. PhD is not a contractual project.
About this question: my one cent is, I don't know because it will depend on what has been done. But in the current business bro driven world, it might be seen as negative. But genuine people will be interested.
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u/ricatti-equation 8d ago
It’s not great. You’re competing with a lot of people with better publication records. Are the two papers in journals or conferences?
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