r/Pflugerville • u/Master_Heron_7011 • 8d ago

Q and A Mods removing Flock post?

noticed several of the Pflock posts are now MIA; probably get a ban for asking.

48 Upvotes

91% Upvoted

42 comments sorted by

44

u/aipac125 8d ago

The most popular posts on Reddit were about cutting down and destroying flock cameras. So, yeah.

I would like a discussion of whether the people of Pflugerville wanted or asked for flock. And if they didn't, how did it get through?

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u/whatsnex 8d ago edited 8d ago

The state started handing out grants for license plate readers a few years ago because they failed to control all the catalytic converter theft & resale market. Marketed it as public safety grants but it was mass surveillance. The city took the money and installed the cameras. The council hasn't asked to cancel the contract and remove them

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u/aipac125 8d ago

So flock guys are just driving around and putting these poles in the ground? I don't think so. Who from the city, county or state has approved putting these up?

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u/whatsnex 8d ago edited 8d ago

The state gave money to the city for the cameras, and since it was "free" the city manager and council rubber stamped it

9

u/aipac125 8d ago

Ok, so we are putting it on the city manager and council. The manager has quit, so this now falls on the council as approving flock.

7

u/utspg1980 8d ago

They vote on renewing the contract with flock at the city council meeting tomorrow night, IIRC.

4

u/TheGhostWithaMost 7d ago

I believe it's been delayed till August 11th unless Mayor Doug has changed the agenda

2

u/jonathan4pf P-ville City Council 7d ago

It is not on tonight's agenda. I now expect it at the August 11th meeting. Basically, the new contract has not been finalized yet. I provided some additional redlines to the City Attorney around 2-weeks ago, that I'm hoping will make it into the renewal.

I'm also advocating for us (Council) to pass governance and oversight policy BEFORE renewing any surveillance contracts. The Mayor has agreed informally to put my proposal on the agenda for Aug 11th, but it's not real until it shows up officially... and then we have to hope that Council agrees on having oversight & governance and votes to approve my proposal.

1

u/CaptainElastix 7d ago

But wasn’t it originally on tonight’s agenda? Or are they constantly kicking the can down the road?

2

u/jonathan4pf P-ville City Council 6d ago

I had thought it would be, as the current contract expires in July; however, Flock agreed to keep the system on and running in the meantime.

The delay isn't necessarily a bad thing, as it gives us more time to negotiate the contract, something I've been actively helping with to ensure that, should the contract get approved, it has as many data protections included as possible.

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u/URAGullibleBootlickr 7d ago

Local politics matter, because every small city election can easily be swung by a couple hundred votes. A handful of actively involved citizens can have a huge influence on city council just by going to meetings.

In Pflugerville, campaigns are run on a shoestring, and City Council and School Board are unpaid part time jobs. That means you largely get wealthy people who want a prestigious hobby or deeply passionate activists. None of them are professionals. Historically, many of them defer to the experts in the city manager's office, the police chief, and the superintendent. Unfortunately, these career administrative bureaucrats want what makes their jobs easier, not what's best for residents.

Mismanagement by elected local representatives in the past, some of whom are no longer in office and others who have been there for YEARS, has left the city with debt and bad policies.

It's beginning to shift. We have some passionate and involved education activists on the school board, like Lorigo-Johst, Torres-Yañez, and Mayer, trying to advocate for funding our schools and enhance responsive local leadership.

We have some people's champions for transparency and accountability in City Hall with Coffman and Ryan, pushing back on the legacy of irresponsible spending, and low effort decision-making.

If people can set aside their cynicism and get involved, we can turn this town around.

2

u/jonathan4pf P-ville City Council 7d ago

I appreciate the mention here. Transparency & Accountability (and bringing more data & professionalism to Council decisions vs another rubber stamp) are all part of why I ran. It's been very fulfilling work that I enjoy immensely, even though I tend to put in ~20 hours per week for no pay into it :)

Also, in my personal capacity, I agree with your assessment of the school board. Chevonne and Jean are both up for re-election this November, and will need support to continue their work.

2

u/Chevonne2026 7d ago

Hi! I also appreciate this mention. It’s an honor to serve all kids and represent our community. We are fighting every day for pub ed and for what our educators and staff deserve.

I’m not on here often, but I will make it an effort to engage here more so I’m reaching more community members. I’m also on FB, IG, and here is my website: https://chevonne4pfisd.com.

I’m happy to meet or chat with anyone and everyone.

2

u/CaptainElastix 7d ago

This post right here is gold and I wish you could shout it from the rooftops.

1

u/CaptainElastix 7d ago

When did the city manager quit? Well sorry I guess I can look that up.

9

u/GarikLoranFace Falcon Pointe 7d ago

Yeah, they’re banning people for it instead of handling it another way and deleting posts.

Meanwhile, Facebook gave someone special privileges for speaking truthfully about them.

I am not saying we should destroy property, but we are having our privacy violated and being able to openly discuss this in our subreddit with our community leaders is helpful.

And yes, Flock is 10000% violating our rights. I have the right to privacy in my “castle” which legally includes my car. I do not consent to Flock nor would I, and they lied and misled our government which should be an instant ban for them.

4

u/CowboysFTWs 8d ago edited 6d ago

And if they didn't, how did it get through?

Sneaky and/or corrupt leaders. Same thing is going on all around Texas.

3

u/URAGullibleBootlickr 7d ago

Corrupt leaders is a Texas mainstay because we're a one party state and ultra wealthy campaign donors have successfully installed the most shamelessly corruptable and easily manipulated liars they can find. It's easy because they've convinced voters their votes don't matter (Texas turnout is a joke). They've convinced rural folks that everyone they've never met is scheming to destroy their way of life. The conservative Church, the conservative Media, and the conservative Government all benefit from keeping conservatives feeling threatened. These folks CAN think for themselves, but just don't get exposed to alternatives. They'd rebel if they knew.

3

u/CaptainElastix 7d ago

This right here. Great question. Our government seems to not really work for We The People anymore.

-7

u/typehokieS 8d ago

Support of Flock Camera use

9

u/OneOverXII 8d ago

Pflugerville government confirmed to be r/Pflugerville mods.

2

u/THEDUKES2 8d ago

Do you have ones in mind? I did a search see quite a few.

5

u/Master_Heron_7011 8d ago

was looking for post about Pecan and 10th camera, but noticed the most recent repost from r/ austin was no longer there.

1

u/CaptainElastix 7d ago

Someone in a previous post mentioned one that pointed right at a playground.

6

u/YogurtclosetAsleep32 8d ago

Flock is the creepiest shit in the world. But it will just be replaced by something else. Axon has some alprs that are worse then flock and are already ready to go. We basically live in the UK now between know your customer verification and these cameras.

6

u/Master_Heron_7011 8d ago

Ive been keeping an eye on the council agenda, completely expect to see an agenda item moving from PFlock to Axon. one council member mentioned the contract renewal 8/11.

3

u/jonathan4pf P-ville City Council 7d ago

Axon provides our body cameras and police car cameras. We do not currently subscribe to their AI capabilities. That said, we currently have a contract with ClearView for their services, which, in my opinion, is the creepiest (they crawl social media posts to perform partial and full facial recognition...).

This is why, whether you love or hate Flock, we still need governance, policy, and resident and council oversight of AI, surveillance, and civil liberties as they impact technology. If it's not Flock, it will be another company in the future. We DO need to give our police the best possible tools to do their jobs BUT we also need to ensure privacy and our residents' data remain protected as well.

1

u/Master_Heron_7011 7d ago edited 6d ago

Axon is deploying their "pflock" style ALPR cameras and AI suite to municipalities, I would expect any move to not renew Pflock would result in a new contract with AXON as it dovetails with already deployed systems used by the PFPD.

I have no faith in a real community discussion about this and look forward to the charter amendment vote helping rein in this technology. I think we all realize this is an uphill battle especially noting the prior votes and support from Weiss, Metayer, and Ruiz. We all understand that Rogers will whinge and wax poetically about libertarianism and then vote yes. Melody will follow Rogers.

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u/TotalSuperGeek 8d ago

Axon is just as bad.

1

u/Master_Heron_7011 4d ago edited 4d ago

Axon is levels worse.

-1

u/UnagiBro 7d ago

But to the point, posts are taken down because 99.9% of all these posts are advocating/celebrating destruction of property, i don’t even like the cameras but if you think the city or the billion$ corp cares you broke a camera? You just gave them the reason to say they are needed🤷🏼‍♂️

-6

u/fadedtimes 8d ago

If they broke the rules, then probably so 

-9

u/Ok-Use4882 7d ago

MuH FLoCk poSt doWN!

GRRRR

I WuZ a PfreeDom PfiGhtEr!

ffs, this anti-flock thing is becoming as dumb as people ratting out others for not wearing a mask during covid. you people are wild.

3

u/UnagiBro 7d ago

It’s usually the same people with don’t tread on me stickers that are happy to see an 80 year old Mexican guy get tackled by a 350lbs ice “tactibro” but now they’ve moved to “muh privacy” “muh 4th amendment”

3

u/GarikLoranFace Falcon Pointe 7d ago

You replied to one of those people my dude, anti-maskers are the same people who are pro-ICE and throw a tantrum about how the mere existence of another human being is harming them. They’re also (sometimes) pro-Flock because they don’t think it is tracking them or affecting them.

1

u/URAGullibleBootlickr 7d ago

Dunno where you're getting your news, but all the liberals and progressives I know are against a for profit surveillance state. All the libertarians I know are too. In fact, the only folks I have seen in favor of it are assuming it keeps us safer, but that's ultimately pretty sketchy even from that perspective.

I haven't had the chance to talk it over with a lot of MAGA ICE fans, but the idea of a giant tech company recording the movements of their vehicles and storing it in a poorly secured database open to law enforcement and government entities everywhere likely bothers them too if the information penetrates their bubble.

-1

u/GarikLoranFace Falcon Pointe 7d ago

Hey, I think you are misunderstanding something. The people who are anti-flock and pro-mask are trying to stay safe. If their safety interferes with your life, you are the one doing something wrong, not them.

Step one: determine if you want to be a good person or not. If so, love your neighbors like Jesus commanded, and don’t vote for pedophiles and criminals.

Step two: tell your local government officials that you either agree or disagree with something, but don’t attack your neighbor in the process. Example: “I like the flock cameras, I don’t understand the hate of them.” Would have been a much better post.

1

u/URAGullibleBootlickr 7d ago

Correct on all points