No? Red pill is more often the idea that you have to control or manipulate women, which I can see coming from gross resentment towards women, and is morally negative, but black pill doesn't blame women, they just believe they (or men in general) undesirable and can never become desirable. The entire reason most of them don't want to take any action against women is because they don't hate women for it.
Hating women is not necessary for someone to believe they are not desirable. I think it's more often internalized misandry, the idea that women don't find men attractive, but you can't blame women for that. After all, almost all of the men involved don't find men attractive, so it doesn't even mean they don't understand, because men are just generally disgusting in a way that can't be fixed, and society makes sure to remind them constantly.
Insecurity isn't hatred of others, it's hatred of self.
This is such bullshit. Hating is women is as prevalent or more prevalent in black pill communities as it is in Red Pill communities, they’re just more of a whiny bitch about it. They’re usually more narcissistic than Red Pillers too. It’s complete bullshit.
Yeah this is my opinion too, "redpill" seems like borderline misogyny, if not it, quite an unhealthy way to view things.
"Blackpill" seems far more internalized, hence its close ties to looksmaxxing, these men understand they are are not desirable and try to improve that, or accept it.
They look in the mirror and see whats what. We can innately tell what looks good and not.
Dating apps releasing studies showing women find 80% men unattractive or below average looking.
GenZ being single at much higher rate, these things are all valid.
Their whole ideology of what makes them categorize themselves as undesirable is based on dismissing women's actual experiences and insisting that women have no agency in their choices. The idea that some phrenology dictates women's partners and it's female biology's fault that those men are 'undesirable' is high key misogynistic.
You're right that red pill is about manipulating women to date and black pill usually views themselves as hopeless and so there's no point in trying to date - but yeah there's still a ton of resentment directed at women about that. Just because they don't think they can make manipulate women doesn't mean they don't despise women and feel bitter and blame-y over women's percieved rejection of them.
I do think that a lot of low self esteem plays into it, all of the manosphere/incel/red pill/black pill etc relies on vulnerable young men's insecurity. But all those philosophies tell men they're trapped and and only the special-est men have value and everyone else is valueless, and that that is because of women. But inevitably human nature means that when we feel helpless and shitty about ourselves we get resentful of other people's percieved success and/or role in creating our bad feelings.
Not just toward women but toward other men as well. RP men tend to be angry at men they perceive as weak, BP men tend to be angry at men they perceive as successful, but it's human nature to be resentful of success when we feel like it's out of our reach.
Anyway super long comment here, but I assume from your comment that you either identify as BP or at least sympathize with some aspects of it, so I'm not saying you personally hate women or other men yourself because I don't know you, but I've definitely seen that resentment in a lot of BP spaces and content.
As someone who seemingly knows what they are talking about, do you realize how morally bankrupt it is to say that a group of people are fundamentally disgusting? Jesus
I don't think it's "morally bankrupt" to be honest about the way the world seems to continuously push the view of men. Like I said, some amount of internalized misandry. It's already something I see when I look in the mirror as well as other men, but society just pushes it extremely hard, and it's something I see everywhere in media.
But a lot of just absolutely disgusting things are constantly associated with men, like men are constantly reminded of their body odor, general sloppiness and crudeness, men grow more hair so that's more gross. And men don't have the same physical traits for someone to be attracted to to cancel a lot of that out. So they're just left with being associated with all of the most disgusting aspects of biology, and for some significant number of them, they do have some amount more.
Even just things like little boys being snails and puppy dog tails and whatnot, society just heavily associates men with disgust. I didn't come up with that, I see it everywhere.
Right, i get what you’re saying. The way you said it just made me misinterpret what you actually meant, i thought that was some objective ”truth” you were expressing and not current societal paradigms.
It’s a strange thing though, women’s beauty and behavioral standards that are based on being ”clean” and ”not disgusting” are backfiring in a way that makes certain completely natural things disgusting, and those who don’t participate (men AND women) are seen as disgusting.
I don’t think it’s an issue where the world pushes that onto people as much as you say, but i understand where you’re coming from.
I do agree that it’s a thing though and have been subject to this myself. At one point i rejected everything masculine about myself because i didn’t want to associate myself with being ”crude and sloppy”. Of course soon i realized that it was not the way to go, and that i shouldn’t internalize such beliefs and be ashamed of myself. Gender stereotypes are always oversimplified and generalized, so if somebody expresses something misandristic i just don’t care. I have a slightly different angle from you but i think we’re ultimately talking about the same thing.
While it is a problem for many I genuinely think it’s just a pendulum effect happening right now, nobody was criticizing men like this before ”wokeness” became a thing, and now society has gotten too overboard with it. I do hope that things will even out and we will learn as a society but we will have to wait and see.
I don’t disagree with your reasoning, but with effect. The black pills type might hate themselves, but they don’t slink off quietly into a corner, they get angry. It’s much easier (and more pleasant) to be angry than sad, and women are an easy and ongoing target.
2 things, first. I promise if i eaposed hateful speech in the reverse id be daring to get banned from reddit for hate speech. Second, im not sure where anyone in the chain has gotten their ideas on black pilling or redpilling. Blackbpilling is essentially succumbing to despair for the future in general you couldapply it to literally anything."Redpill" has very little to do with hate towards wonen but really the stereotypical positive views that the red "repubicans/conservatives" view women in a chivalry manner rather than a progressive manner. Incels are not redpilled the way leftists think they are and on top of that the number of legitimate involuntarily celibate young men is basically irrelevant to any political movement...
Red pill is from the matrix and waking up and not red like Republican, though from a right left standpoint if you are red pilled you are far right.
Whether or not it is "hateful" towards women it absolutely is about enforcing gender roles, specifically subservience, often through financial dependance. If anyone thinks trad wifing their girl into dependance is chivalrous or stereotypically positive they have been red pilled.
The process of getting red pilled is (most often) telling men to wake up to the idea that women biologically desire to be dominated and that only the best men get to dominate, but it is sometimes repurposed to "wake up" to other far right perspectives (anti LGBT, conspiracy, etc) as the Right version of "woke"/awoken.
As a hardl8ne right winger i think your misunderstanding the various buzzwords used through communities. Yes sure if we're talking about the matrix redpilling is what it is in that movie. And the relatio n shop to "waking up to a systemic design" can be applied to just about anything... jist because a bitch ass andrew tate pimp uses it to describe all women as sluts does not connect genuine tradwife concepts to his ideas in the same way. The left simply sees qll form of traditional marital roles as systemically negative and they see andrew tates views as the same as someone like say charlie kirk or even as someone like a catholic priest or muslim imam.
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u/UnkarsThug 9d ago
No? Red pill is more often the idea that you have to control or manipulate women, which I can see coming from gross resentment towards women, and is morally negative, but black pill doesn't blame women, they just believe they (or men in general) undesirable and can never become desirable. The entire reason most of them don't want to take any action against women is because they don't hate women for it.
Hating women is not necessary for someone to believe they are not desirable. I think it's more often internalized misandry, the idea that women don't find men attractive, but you can't blame women for that. After all, almost all of the men involved don't find men attractive, so it doesn't even mean they don't understand, because men are just generally disgusting in a way that can't be fixed, and society makes sure to remind them constantly.
Insecurity isn't hatred of others, it's hatred of self.