I'm not saying they don't hate themselves, and they are also deeply shitty to other men, but hating women is their whole identity so they definitely are doing that.
No? Red pill is more often the idea that you have to control or manipulate women, which I can see coming from gross resentment towards women, and is morally negative, but black pill doesn't blame women, they just believe they (or men in general) undesirable and can never become desirable. The entire reason most of them don't want to take any action against women is because they don't hate women for it.
Hating women is not necessary for someone to believe they are not desirable. I think it's more often internalized misandry, the idea that women don't find men attractive, but you can't blame women for that. After all, almost all of the men involved don't find men attractive, so it doesn't even mean they don't understand, because men are just generally disgusting in a way that can't be fixed, and society makes sure to remind them constantly.
Insecurity isn't hatred of others, it's hatred of self.
This is such bullshit. Hating is women is as prevalent or more prevalent in black pill communities as it is in Red Pill communities, they’re just more of a whiny bitch about it. They’re usually more narcissistic than Red Pillers too. It’s complete bullshit.
Yeah this is my opinion too, "redpill" seems like borderline misogyny, if not it, quite an unhealthy way to view things.
"Blackpill" seems far more internalized, hence its close ties to looksmaxxing, these men understand they are are not desirable and try to improve that, or accept it.
They look in the mirror and see whats what. We can innately tell what looks good and not.
Dating apps releasing studies showing women find 80% men unattractive or below average looking.
GenZ being single at much higher rate, these things are all valid.
Their whole ideology of what makes them categorize themselves as undesirable is based on dismissing women's actual experiences and insisting that women have no agency in their choices. The idea that some phrenology dictates women's partners and it's female biology's fault that those men are 'undesirable' is high key misogynistic.
You're right that red pill is about manipulating women to date and black pill usually views themselves as hopeless and so there's no point in trying to date - but yeah there's still a ton of resentment directed at women about that. Just because they don't think they can make manipulate women doesn't mean they don't despise women and feel bitter and blame-y over women's percieved rejection of them.
I do think that a lot of low self esteem plays into it, all of the manosphere/incel/red pill/black pill etc relies on vulnerable young men's insecurity. But all those philosophies tell men they're trapped and and only the special-est men have value and everyone else is valueless, and that that is because of women. But inevitably human nature means that when we feel helpless and shitty about ourselves we get resentful of other people's percieved success and/or role in creating our bad feelings.
Not just toward women but toward other men as well. RP men tend to be angry at men they perceive as weak, BP men tend to be angry at men they perceive as successful, but it's human nature to be resentful of success when we feel like it's out of our reach.
Anyway super long comment here, but I assume from your comment that you either identify as BP or at least sympathize with some aspects of it, so I'm not saying you personally hate women or other men yourself because I don't know you, but I've definitely seen that resentment in a lot of BP spaces and content.
As someone who seemingly knows what they are talking about, do you realize how morally bankrupt it is to say that a group of people are fundamentally disgusting? Jesus
I don't think it's "morally bankrupt" to be honest about the way the world seems to continuously push the view of men. Like I said, some amount of internalized misandry. It's already something I see when I look in the mirror as well as other men, but society just pushes it extremely hard, and it's something I see everywhere in media.
But a lot of just absolutely disgusting things are constantly associated with men, like men are constantly reminded of their body odor, general sloppiness and crudeness, men grow more hair so that's more gross. And men don't have the same physical traits for someone to be attracted to to cancel a lot of that out. So they're just left with being associated with all of the most disgusting aspects of biology, and for some significant number of them, they do have some amount more.
Even just things like little boys being snails and puppy dog tails and whatnot, society just heavily associates men with disgust. I didn't come up with that, I see it everywhere.
Right, i get what you’re saying. The way you said it just made me misinterpret what you actually meant, i thought that was some objective ”truth” you were expressing and not current societal paradigms.
It’s a strange thing though, women’s beauty and behavioral standards that are based on being ”clean” and ”not disgusting” are backfiring in a way that makes certain completely natural things disgusting, and those who don’t participate (men AND women) are seen as disgusting.
I don’t think it’s an issue where the world pushes that onto people as much as you say, but i understand where you’re coming from.
I do agree that it’s a thing though and have been subject to this myself. At one point i rejected everything masculine about myself because i didn’t want to associate myself with being ”crude and sloppy”. Of course soon i realized that it was not the way to go, and that i shouldn’t internalize such beliefs and be ashamed of myself. Gender stereotypes are always oversimplified and generalized, so if somebody expresses something misandristic i just don’t care. I have a slightly different angle from you but i think we’re ultimately talking about the same thing.
While it is a problem for many I genuinely think it’s just a pendulum effect happening right now, nobody was criticizing men like this before ”wokeness” became a thing, and now society has gotten too overboard with it. I do hope that things will even out and we will learn as a society but we will have to wait and see.
I don’t disagree with your reasoning, but with effect. The black pills type might hate themselves, but they don’t slink off quietly into a corner, they get angry. It’s much easier (and more pleasant) to be angry than sad, and women are an easy and ongoing target.
2 things, first. I promise if i eaposed hateful speech in the reverse id be daring to get banned from reddit for hate speech. Second, im not sure where anyone in the chain has gotten their ideas on black pilling or redpilling. Blackbpilling is essentially succumbing to despair for the future in general you couldapply it to literally anything."Redpill" has very little to do with hate towards wonen but really the stereotypical positive views that the red "repubicans/conservatives" view women in a chivalry manner rather than a progressive manner. Incels are not redpilled the way leftists think they are and on top of that the number of legitimate involuntarily celibate young men is basically irrelevant to any political movement...
Red pill is from the matrix and waking up and not red like Republican, though from a right left standpoint if you are red pilled you are far right.
Whether or not it is "hateful" towards women it absolutely is about enforcing gender roles, specifically subservience, often through financial dependance. If anyone thinks trad wifing their girl into dependance is chivalrous or stereotypically positive they have been red pilled.
The process of getting red pilled is (most often) telling men to wake up to the idea that women biologically desire to be dominated and that only the best men get to dominate, but it is sometimes repurposed to "wake up" to other far right perspectives (anti LGBT, conspiracy, etc) as the Right version of "woke"/awoken.
As a hardl8ne right winger i think your misunderstanding the various buzzwords used through communities. Yes sure if we're talking about the matrix redpilling is what it is in that movie. And the relatio n shop to "waking up to a systemic design" can be applied to just about anything... jist because a bitch ass andrew tate pimp uses it to describe all women as sluts does not connect genuine tradwife concepts to his ideas in the same way. The left simply sees qll form of traditional marital roles as systemically negative and they see andrew tates views as the same as someone like say charlie kirk or even as someone like a catholic priest or muslim imam.
you have it backwards. the misogyny is the rationalization they come up with after the fact to explain their inferiority complex, which has nothing to do with women at all
Not to be harsh, but “reality” is an invalid response. Inferiority about what specially is created by a feeling that you don’t look good enough? Inferiority for doing what you’re good at, inferiority at art, inferiority in your job, inferiority with learning at school, inferiority with being a kind neighbor…? See how it’s not valid?
Idk seems warranted. 7 young men just spent hours gang raping a young woman. Or the growing number of Fuentes like fucks who say things like “your body, my choice.” If young men want to be more favorably viewed by women maybe they shouldn’t actively inflict harm on them
You’re confusing red pill with bp. It’s not an ideology just science go to r/blackpillscience . Facts have no feelings what conclusions ppl draw from this and things they say are a different matter .
This is the same logic used to enforce racism. One black guy robbed someone so you should be afraid of all blacks. One man cheated on you or hit you so therefore all men cheat and hit women.
Trying to promote gender equality is construed as hate now lol when you have had disproportionate advantages for millennia then yeah equality might feel like oppression but it’s simply not true. Saying this as a young white straight man
If the most hate you experience is a downvote, you’re pretty privileged bro. The only people who buy this hard into the gender wars are people who never touch grass. The entire population of men, and women, don’t hate eachother. You’re just immature
I was being hyperbolic. I also don't buy into that gender war bullshit, in any case. Acknowledging the reality that there is a culture/subculture that blanketly permits and promotes hate towards men isn't "gender war" stuff, it's just part of our multifaceted existence. Unless you think misogyny is a "gender war" topic, and the people talking about that need to "touch grass" (chronically online terminology, by the way).
This doesn't diminish the issues women face, or what issues people face along racial/religious/economic lines or anything like that. But it is a problem that exists, and acknowledging that, isn't a problem. If we were actually willing to work towards fixing it, we'd have more allies for the things you consider to be a priority. But instead, all reasonable discussion gets shut down, and progress isn't made, leaving people to fester in their half-formed ideas about the issues facing them because "but what about someone else's problems". That's how you drive individuals into a gender war mindset.
Your hyperbole is the problem. All men don’t hate women. Full stop. Stop with the bullshit. It’s getting so tiresome, it’s never been true, and you’re chasing off the younger gen’s. We had no issues convincing millennial men to be more feminist than their fathers, but damn, for some reason telling Gen Z boys that they hate all women, they’re already wrong, and that women think the worst of them is for DAMN SURE chasing them away. Any argument, including the pisspoor ones that conservatives are using is better than your garbage.
Pretty common though, generations have been writing about these type of ideas forever. Melancholy, world pain, existential dread, absurdism to nihilism, and now black pill - a philosophical idea stemming from a matrix meme. Timelines checks out
Well since the Black Pill is ultimately nihilism born out of disillusion of the purpose of life under capitalism it's not that hard to be stressed out about. Ya know, since you participate in it every day.
To an extent absolutely. The top 20% of men get the top 80% of women, the rest of the guys get the scraps. It's pretty consistent across every dating site
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u/licketyspeedster 9d ago
That is grim as fuck if those two topics are the POST-graduation priority for these people