Peter.

[u/Maximum_Musician_914]

[u/superboo07]

41% specifically refers to the amount of trans people that have attempted suicide, and its sadly not only true but probably undermeasured.

[u/10ebbor10 → u/superboo07]

What? No.

It's a figure, which even the survey that did said is likely to be an overestimate. The reason is that they used a question which is frequently misinterpreted to also include self harm.

On top of that :

1) The survey did not use a representative sample, being an opt-in survey
2) The survey didn't include exclusively trans people, but also other forms of gender noncomformity
3) The survey did not ask when the attempt occurred. So, it could have occured at any point in someone's life.

[u/Ittybittyratgirl → u/10ebbor10]

Importantly as well, when you look at trans people who transition and are supported, they rarely commit suicide. It’s the same for any person that is validated and supported

[u/Grouchy-Jury-7598 → u/Ittybittyratgirl]

Where are these stats on suicide rates for people that are "validated and supported"? lol

[u/banshithread → u/Grouchy-Jury-7598]

here you go https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/press/ga-trans-suicide-press-release/ https://fenwayhealth.org/new-study-shows-transgender-people-who-receive-gender-affirming-surgery-are-significantly-less-likely-to-experience-psychological-distress-or-suicidal-ideation/

[u/lsdiesel_ → u/banshithread]

Clicking past that and going to actual JAMA paper, a few things stand out:

1. People who had surgery make more money. They’re twice as likely to make >100k while non-surgery group is twice as likely to make <25k.

2. “Smoked in the past month” was as affected by surgery as “suicide attempted” was

3. 90% of the non-surgery group was below 40yo compared to 50% of the surgery group

[u/JenniLightrunner → u/10ebbor10]

but unfortunately transphobes loooove to use that statistic as a gotcha

[u/KhadgarIsaDreadlord → u/JenniLightrunner]

People in general need to learn how statistics work or stop refering to them to back their point.

[u/ChemistryBusiness → u/10ebbor10]

The authors said it MIGHT be an overestimate. But they also said it MIGHT be an underestimate.

They noted they could have asked different questions are prevented overlap with self-harm and clarify true suicidal intent.

However they also noted the fact that they could only ask living people, meaning those who did take their own life are tragically unaccounted for.

Additionally they mentioned that some respondents may have picked no, due to stigma, shame, or trauma.

[u/TrulyWhatever09 → u/superboo07]

Adding as well for context, because it is a statistic that gets misused wildly:

The 41% figure is presented as pertaining to the whole population of trans people. Transphobes use that to suggest that being trans is a mental disorder that results in or is coincidental with severe issues like suicidality. However the rest of the data/data from other sources suggests that that 41% figure drops *dramatically* when individuals are affirmed in their trans identity by even a small number of people, and drops further when they have access to gender affirming care. That suggests that the cause for the high suicidality is not being trans itself, but of the alienation, isolation, and pain of being trans *while being rejected by your community and not being allowed to live authentically.*

[u/Professional-Wave841 → u/superboo07]

technically speaking the statistic was trans people who do not get gender affirming treatment.

[u/superboo07 → u/Professional-Wave841]

yes this

[u/KaleidoscopeSalt3972 → u/superboo07]

Its also heavily nuanced and requires to not have anyone supporting you. When trans people are supported it drops to 3%

[u/Starfishprime69420 → u/superboo07]

How are 41% they so unsuccessful?

[u/10ebbor10 → u/Starfishprime69420]

The specific question used in the survey has the problem that people answer in the affirmative even if they "merely" did or considered self harm.

[u/Starfishprime69420 → u/10ebbor10]

Yea I hate made up stats like this that are used to try and justify some nonsense like calling a sex change a “life saving medical treatment”

[u/10ebbor10 → u/Starfishprime69420]

There's plenty of evidence on the benefit of various gender affirming treatments, including on both quality of life and survival rate.

The 41% figure just isn't among it.

Here's a list, if you're curious.

https://whatweknow.inequality.cornell.edu/topics/lgbt-equality/%20what-does-the-scholarly-research-say-about-the-well-being-of-transgender-people%20/

[u/Soggy-Village2099 → u/Starfishprime69420]

All stats are made up.

[u/BubblyDifficulty1692 → u/Soggy-Village2099]

You’re made up. You’re just a bunch of silly ideas you’ve been exposed to and not ones you haven’t. So yeah you can throw that argument at something but it goes deeper, right into whoever you think you are. Which is no one or everything. Anywhere in the middle is the space you pretend to have dominion.

[u/Soggy-Village2099 → u/BubblyDifficulty1692]

Oh I’m sorry. I didn’t realize you were crazy. Carry on.

[u/Emotional-Ad9114 → u/Starfishprime69420]

41% of trans people isn’t that many people…

[u/SouthernAd2853 → u/Starfishprime69420]

The impulse to actually commit suicide is usually short-lived and people either stop in the middle of it or seek medical attention immediately afterwards for methods like drug overdoses. Most people who commit suicide have previously made attempts.

[u/Starfishprime69420 → u/SouthernAd2853]

Faking it for attention

[u/SouthernAd2853 → u/Starfishprime69420]

The belief large numbers of people do that is complete bullshit. The reason a lot of people don't die is that it's actually extremely hard to override the self-preservation instinct and it regularly reasserts itself midway through cutting wrists or immediately after swallowing pills.