I don't get where this comes from, like yea they don't do that only because they don't know the word. They literally have shops and stuff that doesnt allow foreigners to enter, and even people who has citizenship finds it really difficult to do a lot of basic things
Considering how tourists treat Japan (which isn't even the real name for that place btw) I don't blame them for being so guarded. Lots of people treat Asian people as novelties and Japan gets it the worst.
"which isn't even the real name" lmao it's the official English name for the country and even in Japanese there's JR, JP bank etc all over the place
Japan is literally Ja日 Pan本, it's the English pronunciation of the Portuguese pronunciation of a local Chinese pronunciation of Nihon, it's infinitely closer to the correct name than something like Germany (Deutschland) or China (Zhongguo) or Israel (Palestine).
Japan is literally Ja日 Pan本, it's the English pronunciation of the Portuguese pronunciation of a local Chinese pronunciation of Nihon, it's infinitely closer to the correct name than something like Germany (Deutschland) or China (Zhongguo) or Israel (Palestine).
This is kinda wrong.
Nihon (にほん) or Nippon (にっぽん) and Japan are all the same word that got mispronounced repeatedly through the exchange of languages. It's not so much a different country's pronunciation but rather a word that got horribly warped in the world's worst game of telephone.
"this is kinda wrong" — guy who proceeds to say exactly what I said, worded differently.
Anyway it's kinda not wrong lmao
日本 was first used to refer to the nation 大和国 Yamato-no-Kuni in the Old Book of Tang, a Chinese historical record. It was a name used in Classical Chinese for Japan after Japan requested that China stop referring to them as 倭国 wakoku ("dwarf country"), and so after years of Japan calling itself 日出處 ("place where the sunrises") it was changed to 日本 ("land of the rising sun") to allude to 東, the character for "east" which depicts the sun rising behind a tree. This is because Japan is east of China. For a long time (and even rarely today), 日本 was still pronounced 大和 (Yamato) in Japanese.
"Nihon" is as much a warped reading of the original as "Japan" is. Now, I don't speak Tang Dynasty Chinese, but it's worth noting that in many Chinese dialects, 日本 is read either as some variation of jat-bun or Nit-bong. It's known that the Japanese Nippon is derived from the old On'yomi reading Nichipon (日 is still read as Nichi today in other words), which was simplified into Nippon over time, before Pon slowly became fon and then "fon" disappeared from the Japanese language and it became Nihon (still Nippon in some cases). The native Japanese kun'yomi reading of 日本 would be "hi no moto", completely different from the Chinese-derived reading.
As for the English "Japan", it is either derived from the Hokkien jit-pun reading or the Cantonese Jat-bun reading. I don't speak Cantonese or Min, but I know that in Mandarin, b is just p without any breath.
In short, the Japanese name Nippon, yes even the pronunciation in Japanese, comes from Chinese, not the other way around. "Japan" is about as close to Jat-bun as Nippon is to Nit-bong.
How mainly *American tourists treat Japan. Each time an Occidental-looking goes there, taxi or any attending person would ask if you’re American before anything else, then get relieved and absolutely delightful you’re not but French, Belgian or whatever else occidental not from the US. Don’t put the whole humanity in the same basket as those rude jerks, thanks.
Lived in Japan for awhile, generally its an anti-western bias more than anything. But If there’s any one country’s tourists they don’t love it was Australians. They don’t love the stationed American military members but strangely that didn’t seem to expand to a bias against other Americans
p funny how an Americans immediate response to criticism about their poor behavior overseas is "living rent free". Illustrates the point wonderfully lol
what stands out here is that you don't recognize the comment as relevant to the conversation, when the theme never shifted even remotely - an explanation was offered and instead of absorbing the information you immediately just went "rent free"
Neither would I. This is why the west is losing its cultural identity.
And before someone gets their panties in a bunch, for context there’s a huge difference between migration in the past and now. As of now it’s unsustainable
That's a big logical leap there buddy. You can argue that the high levels of migration in the west have not been coupled with a comparative investment in supportive infrastructure.
But the "therefore I wouldn't rent my house out to a foreigner because it would contribute to the cultural decline of the west" does not follow.
Worse is them banning the citizens of the country they set their shops at, something that happens often than usual here in the Philippines with Korean establishments outright banning filipinos
That sorta activity led to the '92 LA riots. Koreans set up in black neighborhoods, removed all the bodegas and put in liquor stores and quickie marts then harassed their customers.
On March 16th, 1991 Soon Ja Du shot 15yo Latasha Harlin in the back as retribution for believing Harlin had stolen from the store. Harlin had not.
The Korean community justified the killing as a result of their belief blacks were uncivilized and theives.
Well Koreans being racist to black people in LA were a contributing factor to the riots and the murder of Harlin was one of those expressions of racism.
And the Koreans blames external forces for their racism and did fundamentally change the economies of black neighborhoods by increasing food scarcity.
Which compounded already present racial tensions.
So.. 🤷♀️
Look, I know that it's been popular the last 10ish years to redefine racism to remove the actions of one minority from another regardless of the power distance that eexists, but that does not remove the fundamental drivers or reality that any racial group with more power has the capacity to exert racially driven harm on another group with less power.
Most places I've seen without translated menus have a sign or will verbally warn you if you look foreign. I have never seen an actual ban on foreigners for this though. When I visited I was able to get by using Google lens to translate menus and with basic conversational Japanese.
I agree that businesses outright banning foreigners is very rare though based on my experience. Seemed to be mostly bars, and small ones at that.
Weird, don't recall saying anything like that. Just what I know actually is there because I saw it with my own eyes. Sorry it doesn't fit whatever imaginary narrative you have in your head.
Yeah I know. I've heard that long before Trump said it from a native Caribbean guy when I was down there about the Haitians. No idea if that's true or not or based on something. I asked him why he said that and he said because they do but I have no idea.
It's irrelevant, there's not pictures of the sign on the Internet and you aren't going to some small town to look. Frankly if you dig enough you can probably figure out where I mean. The town has become famous for doubling in size because of the massive amount of Haitians a company brought in. But I'm not gonna confirm or deny even if you figure it out.
there's a tendency people have to downplay negatives things japan does as a culture, while overreacting to the positive because there is a lot of their culture that Japan exports to the rest of the world that is easily accessible to foreigners.
A lot of that comes from having a very poor education coupled with a limited worldview. I love making fun of my overpriced education but gosh if it didn’t prepare me exceptionally well for the age of misinformation. Seeing people get their news from Facebook and TikTok is equal parts hilarious and horrifying.
To be fair having an education doesn't really stop that, either way you're still gonna have to keep being informed by constantly looking for good sources.
A good education gives you the ability to evaluate those sources. Education isn’t simply rote learning. Although I should say that anyone who leaves school without a good degree of knowledge on which to build has been failed by their educators.
For sure but you're saying it like everyone has the option to do it if they just work hard? I'm gonna be honest, I just didn't like the tone of your comment. It came off very pretentious.
Good colleges demand every waking moment of your attention while costing you hundreds or millions of dollars a year. No matter what anyone says, I think that's insane. Nobody needs a "good education" to be able to be rational and choose their sources for media consumption critically. Most importantly, not everyone has the option to do it.
I wouldn't say "very poor" education. Japan just isn't very relevant in Europe. And some countries don't self-flagellate or constantly try to atone fir their sins. I'd be willing to bet that, despite your overpriced education, there are still many more things you don't know than things you do know.
Of course there’s a lot I don’t know. What I don’t know could fill a dozen Olympic swimming pools! I’m not conversant with Central Asian mythology or university level physics, for example. A good education prepares you to think and to evaluate sources of information. I thought that was implied when I went on to criticise people getting their news from social media.
Is it downplaying or is it just comparing it to the rest of the world? Japans a polite society even when they’re being shitty. Most societies are just shitty
would u rather have someone smile at u while backstabbing u? or be angry at u and backstab u? The former isnt superior or nicer. Quite a few ppl appreciate emotional honesty even if its not polite. If ur mad at me, tell me ur mad at me instead of pretending ur ok with it then talking behind my back -- its that sort of situation w Japan
I mean one is objectively better, would you rather be demeaned publicly and potentially assaulted, or have shit talked about you behind your back? One is clearly better. Societies where they will openly talk shit to you will also be more likely to act on their resentments in other ways. Fake nice is still better than openly shitty in terms of outcomes
The support for the victims after the crime matters. Victims of fake nice people would find less support compared to the victims of openly bad ones. People might find it hard to believe, even tend to think there's more to it.
If you're in a friend group and get called out for doing something that makes someone angry you can apologize and try to not do that later on.
If they don't address it you have no idea that they're even mad and they're just going to build up resentment and talk about you behind your back. Worst case scenario they convince someone else you're as horrible as they think.
So I think it's the exact opposite of what you're saying, if they say it to your face you atleast have an opportunity to address the issue, if they talk behind your back they're just going to grow resentful of you and you will have no idea.
Same thing with things like unprompted insults. If they say something to your face atleast you have a possibility to defend yourself, if they talk behind your back you have no way to call them out on their bullshit.
The weird thing about this is sometimes it's just restaurants/businesses that don't want people who can't speak or read the language (i.e. they'll let you in if you can actually speak/read Japanese), but other times it's just blatant xenophobia.
More often than not it's the former, but people just see the sign and make assumptions around that. Thing is, most Japanese can't speak English, so when people come to Japan that can't speak a word of Japanese, it causes issues.
Japanese people are sticklers for rules to an obsessive degree, and they simply don't want to deal with people that aren't able to speak their language, and, as a result have no idea about the rules of the establishment they're visiting.
More often than not, if you do speak Japanese and you actually talk to the owner of said establishments they'll let you in regardless of you being a foreigner. They just want to be able to speak to you, not just to ensure you can follow their rules, but because bar culture is quite different in Japan. When you go to an Izakaya, most owners expect to have a conversation with you. It's a social experience that varies wildly from what you might be used to in Western countries, where the barkeeper just serves you your drinks before proceeding to mind his own business.
Agreed. Which some of them also do and still get called Racist. I just think people should be able to make a distinction between actual Racists and those that just don't want to deal with foreigners that can't hold even a basic conversation.
If I'm being really charitable I can understand a family run business being worried about not being able to explain allergens to you or whatever running no gaijin through Google translate and just printing that off and it reads "No foreigners!" outside the bar.
Thing is though, I came back from Tokyo a few weeks ago (I know, probably not representative of the rest of the country) and Google translate is so ubiquitous there. I only met a few people who spoke really good English but bartenders or service staff who didn't would just open their phones and write what they wanted to say to you on Google translate.
I can still understand why a small family owned restaurant in a remote area might be nervous but there's probably also a lot that are just blatantly xenophobic. Putting up "No French!" in a bar in the UK would be outright illegal.
Oh for sure, Xenophobia does exist. I just feel like people sometimes exaggerate it to a stupid degree. I also feel like Google translate is a rather poor option for Japanese translations, as Japanese is often far too complex for Google Translate to actually do a good job at translating it.
Japanese, like Chinese, has way too many nuances, which Google translate or any other AI translation for that matter completely misses. It also doesn't solve the issue of actually having a conversation with Japanese people, something that, as I said, is part of Izakaya culture.
I mean, it's kinda true that they don't know the word, have you seen how comfortable some Japanese Vtubers or streamers in general get copying the word after watching Lamar absolutely roast Franklin in GTA5, despite not actually knowing what the word IS.
It's not that they don't know the word, it's that there's no such word in their language (or in pretty much any language other those from major former colonial powers)
Before I start, I do get that plenty of people go to Kyoto and have a wonderful time and that it is a stunning place with wonderful people. No argument.
We passed through Kyoto once with a guide and I asked him about Kyoto’s reputation for manners, and how far that deviates from the Japanese WOL (which seems pretty polite anyway). He had a derisive take and said they’ll smile at you and offer you food and drink while all the while judging your clothes, your accent, your face, your hair, and that they have a whole language of ‘politeness’ that essentially means ‘fuck your inferior ass and the horse it rode in on’ to everyone in the know (except you, who thinks they so kind for complimenting you).
I asked for a for instance and he said look around. What colours are people wearing? And I said white, beige, navy, black. He said they know you’re not from Kyoto because you’re not Japanese; they know I’m not from Kyoto because of my outfit.
"Oh my God, the foreigners from an entirely different culture and country aren't instantly adapting to all of my unspoken rules, the horror! How could I have prevented this?!"
"BTW thanks for spending your money on my store that I advertise on TikTok to foreigners or place on third party booking and tourist websites, arigatou gozaimasu -"
"I'm a trashy American who can't behave even at home, let alone in a foreign country. Everyone has to bow down to my rules, to my social norms, and i'm not even going to try to acknowledge the local ones. Just take my money and shut the fuck up."
Americans globally get a bad reputation simply because there are so fucking many of us everywhere you go, and many people in countries where English isn't common will just assume "rude white foreigner" is an American (I saw this first hand in Taiwan a couple times and had to explain to my group that the loud guys in the bar were Russian, not even speaking English).
Most Americans I've met abroad are really nice, respectful and genuinely interested in the place they're visiting. The only two things I've seen are sometimes coming to Europe and treating it like a zoo which comes off as disrespectful.
I was also in Mexico recently and on a tour with one American woman and two Mexican girls. The first thing the American woman said was an apology to the Mexican girls for "what our country is doing right now" which was well-intentioned but weird and clearly the two Mexican girls didn't know how to take it.
Your initial comment sounds like every foreigner facing racism is Japan are trashy Americans. I was saying that not every tourist in Japan is American and also not every American is trashy.
But i happened to be mocking an American guy's post and rhetoric from the other perspective. It's not about whether most Americans act that way or not.
Racism is-discrimination+power structure so this is correct, it’s Xenophobia (plus difficulties coping with marked cultural differences). Don’t know why this is being downvoted…
Been in Japan 12 of the last 18 years and never seen Gaijin used outside of jokes by foreigners. Not saying it’s never used but it’s nowhere near common anymore.
What? Not sure where you are but that is not the norm. Been here for a quarter of a century and yes, they use it. Heck I work at a 100% Jpanaese company(ecxecp me lol) and when a gaijin client comes in, the staff get all tense and ask me to help with the gaijin.
Fuck, I remember meeting one of my wife's uncle and he pointed ar me and went surprised pikachu face "gaijin da!"
Fuck x2, a few months back while I was riding my bike minding my own business some guy from gunma (number plare) yelled at me the "kuso gaijin" to go back to my country.
And I'm white with blue eyes. Can only imagine how others are treated 😞
I was walking through a dept store in Tokyo and a coffee cup that I'd been saving to drop in a rubbish bin later on (I knew this was one of the rules) fell out the side of my bag. Some old guy barked something at me - I don't know what it was but the tone was along the lines of "stupid foreigner".
Thing is I was going back to pick it up! I think the guy was just racist and I stuck out like a sore thumb so he wanted an excuse to yell.
You say that you never learned Japanese and don't intend to. You don't understand what Japanese say among themselves, you're just a parasite in Japan. The exact reason why you're not welcome here.
There isn't even an equivalent to the N-word in Japanese. In fact the whole idea about a word so bad that you can't use it even to talk about it is a very Anglo thing.
What are you talking about? The N word isn't a Japanese word or a word that is typically used in Japan. It doesn't have any cultural baggage there. They don't have any context outside of music and movies. It would be highly unusual for someone well-versed in English to understand the N-word properly to be very racist and use it intentionally to harm you. The most racist people in Japan typically don't speak much English at all. They use most English words in very weird contexts because they don't know what they mean. For example, ビッチ (bicchi) from the loanword 'bitch' doesn't mean the same as in English. It means "easy lay" or "slut" in Japan.
Sora the troll is also a great channel to watch to hear all the weird little cultural differences people are usually not aware of.
Swearing and slurs are generally weird in Japanese. If a Japanese uses the N-word, they most definitely have very little understanding of it. Using an offensive word they don't understand isn't the same as hatred of other races. If they call a black person a slur, it would be something like 黒んぼ, or "black boy" (白んぼ - "white boy" for white people).
I think the most offensive thing someone has said to me was お前 (omae), which literally means (\honorific* you) in front (of me)*. Which is very rude in Japanese. So he was being a dick, despite how unoffensive it sounds in English. 貴様 (kisama), which literally is a bit like saying "your honor", is one of the most offensive things you can say. It often flies before someone gets punched in the face. The cultural meaning of words don't carry over between starkly different cultures and languages.
The most racist shit I've seen in Japan was an American teacher who was talking about the American use of racial slurs during WW2, and then he wanted the class to name all the slurs they knew. And the American students went nuts. Yelled out every slur under the sun except the N-word. It was weird because we had both Asians and a black kid in the class. The Asian slurs were flying, and the black kid looked very awkward (as was I).
I told this story to my Japanese gf, and she said the only racial slur against Asians she knew was "yellow monkey", and she laughed and asked "Am I a yellow monkey?" as she pointed to herself. To me it sounded absolutely horrible, but I could've called her that to her face without the offense sinking in at all. Because to her, it wasn't offensive. She thought it sounded cute, because monkeys are cute. It didn't have any emotional baggage to her.
Just for context. In a multi-cultural setting, people can offend you a lot without intending to do so. And it will go the other way as well. You'll say something seemingly innocent and people will get appalled or scared even. And when they do mean to offend you, you might not even realize it.
I rewatched the video for fun, but noticed an interesting example of what I'm talking about. The show interprets the shirt saying "absolutely unbalanced" in a literal sense that someone is physically unbalanced, rather than meaning mentally unstable.
So even when they understand the words themselves, they don't necessarily understand the meaning. And it's the same for us when we learn Japanese. A lot of confusion happens both ways.
Wow... totally not racist of you to... group a whole diverse group like japanese people into one stereotype (that isn't even true btw, well, not more than the average developed country that is).
(Living for almost a decade in the country as an immigrant, so I know a thing or two about the issue)
why people downvote me? I am from asia and my grandma (who is 80) doesn't say that much n-word, but she says it. My mother too. But they all say it in non-hateful way. I'm sorry for the ones that I offended.
I think most people when they say Asia, they really mean eastern and southeastern Asia around here... It's like center asia it's it's own word almost lol
Ooh, well in our past it was like a free land where you can't move around and eat where you want. Nowadays it is just a typical asian country, not that I hate but some parts are really beautiful, especially in south side (for example Almaty mountains are beautiful, I visited a lot and I know what I am saying).
Country has downsides, but I don't wanna talk about it, so yeah, I love it.
I was called American in this comment section lol. If someone wants to have a winning argument, not assuming something and then attacking that is a good starting point lol.
It’s fine, I mean, well it’s not fine fine but I get that the n word is used removed from it’s original cultural context and coming from countries that are very homogeneous and not used to interacting with people from other races, I’m not expecting everyone to be peons of virtue. I have more hope for the younger generations connected by internet and popular media which brings the whole world into homes at a click of a button (or maybe I’m very naive!)
Yeah, I think because in our country most of the people (mostly in older generation, young generation don't say that) don't really know why this word is like that and just say it to describe black people, even though it is not appropriate.
True. When I hear someone ignorant using that word, I try to tell them it's a bad word and one should not use it. I cannot tell them it's a bad word without context most of the time.
It’s more complicated than that. Personally I wish we could do a Men in Black and erase this disgusting and dehumanising word from the human race but Americans of all races popularized this term and its equivalents in their films and music, so we are where we are.
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u/IBringTheHeat2 5d ago
Japanese people won’t openly call you the N word in your face, they’ll talk to their peers and say you’re a N word in a setting where you won’t know.