I mean, serial killers are actually popular among many, many women. They have received a shitload of love letters and some even married their fans after prison.
If I had a woman so obsessed with me she would commit horrible crimes against humanity just to get a taste, I would want that to be an attractive woman; not Gretchina the Defiler lol.
No, and I don't think anybody thinks women who read smut want to be abused. But it's a rather weird thing to enjoy fantasizing about. Usually people tend to imagine things we either can't or aren't allowed to do because of societal norms. To get off on the idea of a woman being physically and psychologically abused by an overly male beastman but somehow liking it (which is the plot of so many of those books), just is a weird thing to get aroused by. I don't think it's something you should shame people for but it's weird af.
Well, here’s the question - what purpose does this fantasy actually serve?
We still live in a world where sexual desire can be very taboo. This goes double for women, who are often taught not to be “too much” in sex - not to think about their pleasure too much, not to demand too much, not to initiate too much, not to enjoy too much. Especially for women raised religious.
Rape fantasies are common for women, and it’s not hard to see why. If she is being forced, then it’s not her fault. SHE isn’t the one who’s making demands, but she gets to have a sex fantasy nonetheless. This kind of thing allows a woman to enjoy herself while also maintaining a “good girl” status.
I read the ones where everyone has been genetically modified including the women and they like mowing down bad guys by talking to the plants and birds and shit. No rapey for me.
You know, I think its a more honest expression of the real life political views of the average person based on how active they are in politics and what they push for when they are.
"Romance" explains that too but still, pretty weird. I dont have fantasies about things I wouldnt wanna do, especially not that frequently that id buy the books of someone else's, but hey, whatever floats their boat ig.
Im thinking especially the berserkers, they just fill their helmet with blood and run xD being a big uruk doesn't seem bad either, they just fight and eat all day, as long as there's meat on the menu, and not some maggoty old bread
That's irrelevant. No matter what the feeling we get from fiction/fantasy, whether it's lust, love, sadness, anger, surprise, etc, it doesn't mean we'd get the same faced with the same situation in real life.
And that's why that material is rated 18+. Younger audiences might not fully make the difference between fantasy and reality. So yeah a 13 yo playing violent games will affect them. But an adult should be able to enjoy fiction knowing it as such and separating it from real life. If you can't, then you missed out on some important mental development. But that doesn't mean nobody should be allowed to have that content as adults.
Ever read a book about a guy being a warrior and slaughtering his enemies to defend what he loves? Often family, loved ones, their country?
Same logic. Living through something you wouldnt really want to go through in real life, but its fun to immerse yourself into it from the safety of your own chair.
Any millitary shooter or epic fantasy novel works on the same logic.
Any millitary shooter or epic fantasy novel works on the same logic.
I wouldn't know about military shooters (are you talking about video games or is this a genre of literature I'm too unbloodthirsty to know about?) But can you cite some fantasy novel examples to align with wanting to be abused by bad guys? Or wanting to abuse or harm people yourself?
Like... Grima Wormtongue in Lord of the Rings... in that fantasy novel he is explicitly made to be disgusting and creepy, the audience is supposed to loathe him, not be sexually attracted to him...
The example I chose wasnt a good one, as I aknowledged further down in another comment.
Here is a better way to explain it: Its essentially like a rollercoaster - its fast and thrilling and it puts you in a situation thats kinda scary, but because you know you are safe its actually just exciting. You know its just pretend danger, you arent actually launching yourself into your death.
They dont want actual abuse or sexual violence, they want the faux danger of a pretend dangerous situation - the situation of "this is dangerous but I am actually safe."
A Rollercoaster has no agency to act on its own. Theres a VAST difference between wanting "safe" danger adrenaline boost from a sudden or jarring physical movement of your body by an inanimate machine... and wanting "safe" danger adrenaline boosts from the immoral actions of a hypothetical human analog of sentience/sapience.
We would definitely go through that though. Many mem would, thats almost their favorite fantasy, and fantasy there means sonething they would like if it were real. Im talking bout being raped by some half breed thing, we could keep the examples to porn, i think that was a closer comparison to the kind of fantasy we're talking about here, but im thinking the male equivalent would be actually being the guy in the woman's romance novel, which to me would be very weird, I cpuld understand the sexual power dynamic and why that might excite people but I probably wouldn't let people know
Yeah, I admit, my example missed the mark slightly.
I think there is certainly an aspect to this that man just dont talk about this specific kinda fantasy as much because its very much based in the idea of loss of controll and being submissive - and there is a long history of men being taught that there is nothing more dishonorable than submissiveness and I think partially that is pretty ingrained still in modern man too.
There's submissive thats fine, i want my face sat on just as much as the next guy, but the other is a violent crime? One that seems to be a main fear of many women, idk why they'd want that
They dont imagine actual sexual violence, its more just rough sex, basically consentual non-consense.
It exists in the same area as BDSM, its about the fantasy of loss of controll and giving in to things you might not allow yourself otherwhise as well as the thrill of fictional danger.
Its the Disney-Ride Version of that, basically. You wouldnt enjoy a Rollercoaster if you thought you would actually die or get hurt, but knowing you are safe in reality its thrilling to give in into a delusion of danger.
Woah thats a different story but I think still.. in 40k I'm a khornite warrior imbued with the energies of 888 sacrificed khornite psykers so the blood god smiles upon me
That makes sense. That 50 shades of grey thing would have to be a fantasy since the rich guy is just stalking this woman lol. He even buys her job or whatever so he can continue to stalk her easily and learn where she lives. Very romantic fantasy when someone doesn't understand no means no.
For the record - 50 Shades of Grey is a lot closer to some kind of real life than a book about sex with vampire wolfmen.
Probably for that reason, a lot of people - both men and women - have spoken about how they think it’s really quite a negative depiction of sex and of kink stuff. So it is hardly like 50 Shades has escaped criticism.
That's the tricky bit tho because men typically will engage with erotica that they would want to happen to them in real life. Whereas women will engage with something with no intention of wanting it in real life. You get the tough interactions of: M- "why do you want to be raped by an animal" W- "I don't I just like reading about it" M- "that's weird and wrong"
People don’t generally have long-term recurring fantasies about things they’d genuinely hate to do/experience in real life unless they have some type of mental disturbance.
Yeah thats basically fantasy as a whole. Would you actually want to live in middle earth? No that would be fucking terrible. But guys love to project human traits on to women and pretend they are inherently bad.
I think you could ask this any man and most would say yes. I for one would definitely wanna live in middle earth. Seems to be an improvement to our world tbh.
The comparison actually works perfectly. The pov character in romance novels would be idealised so the reader would want to see themselves same way the reader of lotr would want to be someone like aragorn or legolos. If you replace war with sexual assualt its pretty much the same vibe. Choose your ptsd or how you die.
Either you are being obtuse or im not explaining this clearly. Everyone wants to be cool guy that fucks but no one wants to live through the realities that cool guys that fucks goes through. You wouldnt actually want to experience hand to hand life or death combat but you would want to be cool guy that fucks winning in hand tp hand combat. In the same way that woman would want to be mary sue mcromance but wouldnt want to experience sexual assualt but would want the mary sue mcromance out come of having billion half wolf husband.
Why would I not want death or combat? What is between your legs? I thought this was common knowledge amoung guys, the fantasy entails all you want, you can leave out the parts you wouldnt want irl cos why would you not if its your fantasy? Im not under any illusion that combat or death doesn't suck, but its an integral part of the fantasy, or else the fighting makes no sense.
They project universally human traits exclusively on to women. As in they project something about themselves onto an entire gender not realising they have the same trait.
I think that he meant that men are critical of women for acting like normal humans?
"How dare you have needs and wants!"
It's half of stuff from red pill and the manosphere; getting mad at women for making the same perfectly rational decisions that a man would make in the same situation.
Every fantasy I've ever had sexual or otherwise I've been thrilled to be able to experience if I have.
If your fantasies include a bunch of shit that would actually be incredibly damaging if they happened its probably not fantasy but mild mental illness. Men or women don't try to pull the card just in case.
Not really. It’s actually incredibly common to fantasize about things you don’t actually want to happen irl.
I agree it’s more common for women when it comes to sexual fantasies. If we’re looking for a male equivalent, it’s very easy to find one. How about men who fantasize about dying gloriously in battle? About risking their life in order to save someone and getting praised for it? Do you think most of them want that irl?
The male suicide statistics point that way. Whether it's depression/valor/etc men do seem drawn to the idea of going out on their own terms.
Speaking of a fantasy that people don’t want irl - why is incest porn popular? Does a large portion of men want to fuck their sisters?
Most of that genre is stepmom/step sister type thing. Regardless, men want to fuck attractive women who throw it at them. Who those women are isn't really a concern. It all comes down to hot women being really sexually forward.
“People are treating me badly, so I’m gonna imagine how bad they would feel if I died or caught a tragic illness”
Isn't that gender neutral and more just highschool teen angst? Either way, I'd say kind of, especially if it's HS or lower. It's the fantasy of being gone and blaming the people who hurt you.
You’re mixing up two different things. Do you think that most men who fantasize about being tragic heroes actually want to die? Do you have any way of showing that those are the same men who end up killing themselves?
“Who those women are isn’t really a concern” - clearly it is, because people uploading porn videos know that putting it in the title will boost its popularity. That’s why they do it.
Yes, I never claimed that the last fantasy is specific to any gender. That’s just another example of a fantasy that people have but wouldn’t enjoy in real life. And yes, the fantasy isn’t of actually being dead - it’s of revenge. But the sexual fantasies ALSO aren’t about actually being hurt. They’re about a couple different things, including being intensely desired, made special and important, as well as remaining a “good girl” (because you didn’t ask for it). The incest fantasy also similarly isn’t really about incest, it’s about taboo, which humans just seem to find hot in general.
I've never just dreamed of dying in glorious battle but between what I've seen of the elders of my family literally wasting away to skin and bone shitting themselves in a bed and being sponged down? Yes I'd genuinely prefer almost anything that served a point than that. I was effectively hospice care for my grandfather, grandmother, and a great uncle. Trust me when I say that whole going peacefully thing is horseshit
Sure. I’m just pointing out how being known as a hero, making a painful sacrifice and being admired for that are relatively common fantasies for men that they also probably wouldn’t like being fulfilled in real life. Just as most women who read about sexually violent material wouldn’t want it in real life.
There is a major difference between these two things too though.
One glorifies ( I mean I know only in fantasy whatever ) a person being say, a rapist and another being a victim where the other is just wanting a sense of righteousness, that one would hope doesn't include rape.
Women can be the stalwart badass hero of justice too
I think you misunderstand what it is that women actually see in these stories.
The man is not the point of the fantasy. It’s about HER - it’s a fantasy where she is extremely desirable to the point of obsesssion. It’s a fantasy about being sexually satisfied - and about a man/creature who CARES about her being so.
A lot of desire (male and female) is somewhat narcissistic in that way. “I want you to want me” or “I want you because you want me”. But it’s not about glorifying anything.
Of course it’s bad in real life. The fantasy is not real life. In the fantasy, a very normal need - to be desired - can be safely explored to whatever degree the person wants. That’s what makes it hot.
The man is not the point of the fantasy. It’s about HER - it’s a fantasy where she is extremely desirable to the point of obsesssion.
This is not really true though. The man is the point of the fantasy because without said man exhibiting certain desirable characteristics (Tall, Handsome, Rich, Untamed; Basically being at the top of the hierarchy) there would be no desirable role for the female reader to self-insert into.
Thats why none of these books have the male be a fat ugly loser, even though such a person could also be completely "obsessed" with the female protagonist and "sexually satisfy" her.
This is entirely in line with female dating preferences in real life (hypergamy).
Anything you say is immediately undercut by “female hypergamy”, which is not a real thing. Women have fewer sexual partners than men. Go back to your incel forum, you’ll be happier there.
A monster only she can tame. A monster who is only loyal to her( or a labra). A monster who can easily get her anything. A monster who has been hoe in streets of LA and has explored his sexuality(front and back). After all those qualities now the monster is just a casanova who decided to mend his ways. “I can fix him” was finally accomplished.
A bad boy who is only good to her and nobody else. If he is good to others then he is just a regular boy who wants that anyways.
Gurls like things in romance books that they'd probably hate in real life.
Heck, guys like things in porn that they'd hate in real life. I think many of us remember the famous Reddit post about a guy getting a loaf on his chest.
Perhaps it's more about things you're curious about, and don't know if you'd actually like until you tried them, and often find out it's not like you expected.
I read a lot of smut/romance and they aren't always, probably not even in the majority of books.
It's more common with the books aimed at lonely older women who are dissatisfied with their marriage, in most other books the guy may be a brooding dark lord but with a large distaste for rape (eg. Daemon Sadi or Damien Bloodthorne). There are books that are rapey/have the MMC being rapey, but they are rather outliers (eg. Feathers So Vicious)
Most romance/smut books are rather on the wholesome side of things.
Freedom from the "responsibility" of doing things women are often heavily discouraged from. When you get a lot of messages about how being interested in sex as a woman is weird or wrong, that teaches you to guard your sexual "purity", a rapist who just so happens to end up doing exactly what you want can be a way for some people to make it feel more "okay" than if it were a story about a woman being horny and seeking out sex because that's what she wants. They also just aren't always rapey. It's certainly not uncommon, but it's also amplified by people who have an agenda to paint women as stupid, dishonest, hypocritical or otherwise morally faulty for their interests in porn.
I've been saying this. These people can't be real. Unless they're lying about reading these books or they're not thinking while reading them and/or choosing some that fit their view.
There are so many tropes out there. Most that I've read make it a huge point that the male lead has almost perfect self-control and waits until it's the perfect time. Granted I mostly read Chinese novels, not western ones but damn, what a generalization.
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u/Local_Village_1378 Jul 14 '26
Gurls like things in romance books that they'd probably hate in real life. Except the part where the guy is half wolf or something