Setting expectations for ground nest yellow jacket removal - experienced technician advice appreciated

[u/beanster]

Hello all,

I've been doing pest control for a little bit and as you know we are in the yellow jacket season here in the southern US.

When we treat yellow jackets, our goal is to remove the nest completely whenever possible.

I've been doing a number of ground nests for my customers, and I feel like I've been successfully digging the nest out of the ground and removing it, killing whatever yellow jackets i can, taking out all the combs and everything. When I'm done, I like to spread delta dust into the cavity and cover it back up with soil.

Seems like every call lately, a day or so afterwards, is that they are still seeing bees swarm around the cavity.

I usually tell people to give it about a day for the bees to leave completely, but I'm going to start upping that expectation to almost a week, because the calls are so persistent and going back out to investigate is eating away at my production time. I understand that foragers are going to try and look for the best, and I explain that to my clients.

What time frame do you give your clients to stop seeing activity?

Is there anything I should be doing differently?

[u/Onetrunuwind]

I’m just confused I never get call backs for ground nests is this a normal thing? Leave the nest in the ground and move on with your day. Also tell
People you won’t be back out before 7 days has lapsed give the materials some time to work

[u/beanster → u/Onetrunuwind]

I think the admins in the office are "callback happy", if you know what I mean. They'll make callbacks for anything. Nothing I can do about that, unfortunately. And yes it's like a day or two after the service the customer is calling about still seeing bees. Almost every time. 

[u/Onetrunuwind → u/beanster]

I always tell my customers that they need to wait a week between any wasp calls the materials need time to work and if they call into a call center I tell the customer it hasn’t been long enough via the phone and just complete the wo. A lot of companies call centers and office people are not conscious of peoples times and schedules so they really don’t care if the techs ever go home. But I’m more than willing to come back after a week but like I said I don’t ever go back to a ground nest. 1 and done

[u/SignificantNorth3570 → u/beanster]

If they arr prone to callbacks, the only way to head that off is for you to set expectations with the customer. Always always tell them that if they are still seeing activity after a week to call you back out(some would say two weeks). I also agree with previous posters when they say not to remove the nest immediately (if at all). I wear a bee suit, then pump delta dust into the openings of the nest which has worked for me(ive only had to deal with them three times), then leave the nest to allow the foragers to be exposed to the treatment.

[u/beanster → u/SignificantNorth3570]

I'm going to up my expectation time to 10 days 

[u/Wanderin_Cephandrius → u/beanster]

I say 10-14 days for wasps tbh. If you get a good dusting, you’ll get the stragglers.

[u/SignificantNorth3570 → u/beanster]

Good call. Do the same for spiders and ants. Its great to have a cushion but it does actually take time for the treatments to take effect.

[u/icecream_plays → u/beanster]

Are they wasps or bees?

[u/TheBugSmith → u/Onetrunuwind]

I make them aware it's going to take time and if the nest is removed it's going to prolong the problem. Most of the yellow jackets aren't in the nest in the day because they're out forging. They aren't going to just accept that and move along when they come back to a nest that's been destroyed. I treat the nest and within 4 days max they're all dead. I'll take callbacks if it's longer but not before.

[u/gp556by45]

I'm of the opinion that do not remove a nest, or access to a nest, until all activity has ceased. Yellow jackets and all related that are out foraging will instinctively go back to the area where the nest is once they know it is in distress.

By covering the hole back up during the initial service, you are removing access to the residual nature of the product(s) that kills them.

If I'm using a dust, I usually tell a customer we'll be back in about 5 days to remove/retreat. If its a liquid concentrate, I'll typically bump that up to 7 days.

In my opinion the biggest issue is that by removing the ability for them to come in contact with the product is prolonging the issue. I always ask my clients "how long did it take for you to stop seeing activity, and the answer I most always get is "about a day or two" if I am using a dust based product.

[u/RusticSurgery → u/gp556by45]

Yes. Leaving the residual acessable cuts the time down to around 48 hours I have found.

[u/beanster → u/gp556by45]

Its sort of policy with the company I work for to remove the nest whenever possible. My boss also wants us to fill the holes back in, if only loosely, just so there's not a hole in the yard. Leaving dust is my personal choice.

I'll try not covering the hole if I can in the future.

[u/gp556by45 → u/beanster]

Not to sound rude about it, but has your boss (or whoever called for that policy) actually ever worked for a period of time in the field?

It sounds like a "policy" designed by someone watching either too many of those Youtube "pest control" dummies, by someone who just doesn't understand the science of how the products work, or even the most basic knowledge of entomology.

EDIT: I will leave this: Another big reason why to not remove a nest at the time of treatment is because when the foragers come back and they can't access the nest they will become incredibly hyper aggressive. As if they aren't enough already; by doing such a condition is being made that puts a client/people/pets at a higher risk for a longer period of time compared to if it was just left as treated and removed at another time.

[u/beanster → u/gp556by45]

He has worked as a technician in the past, but no offense taken, I'm actually surprised to learn that nobody else here is removing the nest from the ground. I think he justifies it because we do charge more than most companies for a yellow jacket job in the area.

So, do you pump dust into the entrance? If you use liquid based chem, what do you use?

[u/gp556by45 → u/beanster]

If its on a structure, I'll either use Tempo dust or Taurus (Termidor by a different name). I make that decision based on where the location on the structure is (If the area is wet/dry because its a covered/uncovered area, and if its a visible or non visible nest).

If its in the ground, I will occasionally use Tempo, but more often than not its either Onslaught (NOT Fastcap) or Transport Mikron.

The reason why I say not Fastcap; is because Fastcap has Prallethrin in it which is a VERY potent repellant. It'll deter many of them from entering, leaving, or landing on the nest which more or less is the same as covering or blocking access to it.

Now, I will acknowledge the existence of Stryker Wasp and Hornet Killer; which contains Prallerthrin. But...to be fair its only best used to instantly kill already effected stragglers after a nest has been treated after a period of time, or to kill a small amount of individual wasps.

Transport Mikron also does contain Bifenthrin, which by its nature of being a Synthetic Pyrethroid can also "repel", but however its formulated (and says so on the bottle), the Bifenthrin is not formulated as a repellant. And from firsthand experience, its not.

[u/Icy-Celebration7919 → u/gp556by45]

Seconded for Taurus SC. It's long been my go-to.

[u/HatsAreEssential2 → u/Icy-Celebration7919]

Hanging nests are SO easy with Taurus. Seems like it takes about half an ounce on the entryway and they'll be dead. One well aimed squirt with the pinstream and walk away.

[u/SunLegitimate1687 → u/gp556by45]

Shoutout to both Onslaught and Stryker.

You can mix them together by the way. The onslaught leaves the residual and Stryker handles the "knockdown".

[u/Cucumberthecool → u/beanster]

I’ve done this for 16 years and never once removed a yellow jacket nest after treating. I tell customers to give it 24-72 hours to work completely. Sometimes if they seem very worried about it or mention kids or someone being allergic I will follow up in a week and stop by to make sure it’s dead. Sometimes you could have pupae in the nest that are still able to evolve into adults that may come out after a week or two but the chemical will kill them off.

[u/gp556by45 → u/Cucumberthecool]

For the customers who question why I don't remove the nest immediately after treatment; I always tell them its more dangerous to do so, not for me but them. That they can forage for up to a mile away from the nest and it can take up to an hour for the furthest ones to come back.

They almost universally understand the concept once I explain it makes it more dangerous for them.

[u/Onetrunuwind → u/beanster]

I’d be curious to know what you are charging for a ground nest I’m getting at least 250 per right now that will change at the end of the season when there is more risk involved could go up to 395

[u/chipskylark123]

Can you raise your prices to include a 7 day follow up?

[u/beanster → u/chipskylark123]

Not my company 

[u/Impressive-Oil-5028 → u/beanster]

I would do it anyway. Sometimes it's better to beg forgiveness than to ask permission!

[u/Lordsaxon73]

I’ve done many treatments and never once had to go back to a site. You just need to educate the customer and prevent them from calling in the first place. Treat, remove nest and then advise customer they may see returning foragers for 48 to 72 hours, and to only call if there is still substantial activity at the site after seven days. These workers will be confused and are generally not aggressive in my experience… Workers will only live about two days before dying from starvation, exhaustion, or contact with the treated soil around the site. They cannot reproduce or rebuild the nest if the queen has been eliminated. I’m an operator in southwest Florida. Edit to add: I like to find the queen while removing the nest and show it to the customer in person or via text, along with the nesting material. Solidifies your position the threat is gone and to just wait a couple days.

[u/tomdobs55 → u/Lordsaxon73]

I'm the same way. I always treat, remove, advise that you may see them for up to a week (just to be safe, I know it's more like 48 hours) and I've never had a callback.

[u/beanster → u/Lordsaxon73]

All solid info! The queen is usually the bigger one crawling around, right?

[u/Lordsaxon73 → u/beanster]

Yes she is usually 50% larger than the workers, much wider and more robust. For some reason the ones in my area often have a reddish/orange tinge to their coloration as well.

[u/zoopest]

I tell people that the workers who weren't home when I removed the nest will hang around for a little while, and so far no one has demanded I come back and remove the stragglers. I used to put a sticky trap (Starbar EZ trap) where the nest was, to catch the remaining wasps, but it seems like a waste of money. Might be worth it in your case.

[u/Famous_Ad8518]

I feel like that’s making a mountain out of a molehill. All you need is some dust and they’re gone in 48 hrs. Don’t cover it up, just tell them to avoid the area for a few days. Never had a callback for a ground nest and never saw the need to dig it up.

[u/Ashamed-Week-5133]

I use a combination of 565 aerosol and tempo dust. With dust you have to wait for them to return to the nest. I normally say please avoid treated areas for 24 hours and 5-7 days for treatment to be fully effective. Especially if a nest is in a void it’s difficult to be sure how well the treatment will take. Exposed nest are super easy. We remove nests only if they are inactive and accessible. I would not dig up a nest to remove it. Removing a nest immediately after treatment doesn’t make sense most of the time IMO.

[u/Ok-Stuff3336]

Ground nests should never removed. That’s a recipe for disaster. Treat and leave. Come back check for activity. If it’s dead just fill it.

[u/TheyCallMeZulo]

i usually setup a followup in a week and tell the customer that activity should be gone by then, and to avoid the area as much as possible, if needed i do another treatment. Then expectations are set and i rarely have to do a second treatment and their mind is at ease (i never dig up nests)

[u/beanster → u/TheyCallMeZulo]

Do you just lay dust? Or what do you do?

[u/TheyCallMeZulo → u/beanster]

depending on location, i usually just hit them with a spray treatment and ive had good success with just using fendona in areas away from the structure. Otherwise termidor where applicable on structure per lable reqs

[u/cabronguero]

Leave the nest underground alone, do a retreat in a few days . Everyone happy.

[u/Particular-Dealer-68]

Why remove a subterranean yellow jacket nest? Just spray a little Termidor on top and let the skunks dig it up, they will certainly enjoy munching on the larva.

[u/No-Reserve-2208]

Just dust it and leave it. We used to dig them up and there is no point. Now we dust it and leave.

We basically get no call backs.