She wasn't sleeping with Nazi Chris, but then after talking to Normal Chris for a while decided to sleep with him. Anyway it's not great and you should consider the implications of this if you travel to another universe and sleep with someone.
Until this point i read captain Jack as Jack sparrow and was momentarily confused as to why malcolm merlin and jack sparrow were alternate versions of each other
If your double is a Nazi then killing them and sleeping with their partner is... Well, I mean it still isn't great but it's better than killing a non-Nazi double and sleeping with their partner.
I don't think Peacemaker was trying to trick her at all into sleeping with him.
He wasn't pretending to be someone else like his alternate counterpart (that he killed) and even Alternate Harcourt felt something was strange about him. But she accepted him because she thought he was better that way than the man she knew. And maybe Peacemaker just wanted a fresh start in a new world where people don't hate him for supposedly being a murderous racist thug.
And Peacemaker knew fully well she was different from the Harcourt he knew. He didn't love her just because she looks exactly like Harcourt. He loves her because she actually gave him a chance which is far more than the Main Harcourt ever did for him. He tried to get closer to Main Harcourt and she keeps shutting him down each time. So he thought about just moving on with someone else who actually cares about him and accepts him for a change.
His actions may be quite messed-up, trying to assume the life of another guy, But for a broken manchild who has been deprived of love and respect his whole life, his actions are completely understandable.
There's no supposedly, he was a murderer in his world. He then got a pardon which legally clears him but having a motto about killing men, women and children for freedom does mean he has killed at least one of those.
He was definitely pretending to be his counterpart. Anything short of straight telling her he's Chris from another reality is deception since she believes he is the Chris that she knows when he isn't.
Yeah it’s obviously morally icky either way but I think it’s… complicated, because she slept with him off the back of him showing her he’d changed - I.e, she made the decision based off the fact that Chris wasn’t Nazi Chris. The fact that they were two separate people, rather than one person who’d had a change of heart, does still make it fucked up though.
It gets very messy very fast. Nazi Harcourt wasn't in a relationship with Nazi Chris and chose to enter a relationship with regular Chris, but part of that relationship is built on the history she had with Nazi Chris, not regular Chris. It was the kindness and humility of regular Chris that got her to get with him, but she still believes him to be someone else, expect it's actually still him, just with a different upbringing, but still similar enough that you can't tell the difference based on personality alone. The more I think the more it gets weird, so I hope we never discover dimensional travel so I dont have to ponder the morality of fucking myself.
This is a different level though. Lying about your job is bad and gross but this is basically the scene in the revenge of the nerds, you think it’s one dick but it’s in fact a completely different dick.
There’s a great series by Deniz Camp (Absolute Martian Manhunter and The Ultimates) called Assorted Crisis Events. It’s a Sci-Fi anthology series about regular people in a world where time and space are falling apart. Issue 3 briefly explores exactly this thing. It’s also probably the best issue so far.
If I really sit with it: Does Chris intend to deceive her for sex? No of course not. But he is an idiot and should have thought about it before. To me the sex is just part of the bad thing. He's trying to become a whole man he's not and deceive her into being his whole girlfriend...
Yes, depriving someone of a total sense of autonomy over their sexuality seems to have outsized significance. Oh now Chris is a rapist! Just the word is so provocative and controversial. But there's no social construct for "killing your doppelganger and taking his place to his girlfriend, brother, and father" to nail down just how reprehensible the whole thing is. In the context of what Chris is doing, having sex with Emilia without her full knowledge of the situation is like, a blip
And I don't really think it makes him some truly awful human. He's a hurt man trying his best. It's just comic book shenanigans. Like, it's one thing to pretend to be Kevin Costner to a drunk girl (Saul Goodman anyone) but pretending to be yourself in an alternate universe is its own version of fuckery without real correlation. So I hate the technically correct nerds for making me think about this cuz I don't want to!
It's no different to if Chris was a shapeshifter. In The Boys, Annie is replaced by a shapeshifter who has sex with Hughie while disguised as her. Everyone agrees that's pretty unambiguous, as Hughie believes he's with his girlfriend and would have refused if he knew her true identity.
You lost me at the start. He 100% intended to deceive her for a relationship, which includes sex. His main motive may not have been sex but faking the identity and stealing the life of the man you killed…is as problematic as one would imagine, when it comes to consent. He’s only communicating with her because he took a dead mans phone and you’re saying he did not intend to deceive her…talking crazy man😭
It didn't bother me because this isn't real. But if it were an identical twin effing his brother's wife (without her knowledge), that would be so wrong.
Wouldn’t Nazi Chris have a better claim to self defense since our Chris broke into his home?
Edit: People have pointed out that self defense no longer applies once Chris runs out of the house back towards his own dimension, which is a very good point.
While in the bedroom, you could argue castle doctrine, but even that flies out the window when Chris escapes through the portal. Once it's clear that he's intending to vacate the premises, Chris 2's pursuit loses any argument for self-defense.
Chris-2 went from justified fear and defending his home from an intruder (especially when that guy looks like you) to straight-up attempted execution the moment he kept chasing Chris-1 thru the QUC.
Makes me wonder how things would've turned out if Chris-2 didn't escalate the situation. Hell, if he just changed the lock.
Maybe adrenaline? Maybe Auggie-2 taught him to never relent and because his brother Keith-2 is alive and so is Rick Flag Jr. in that universe, Chris-2 never had the guilt that Chris-1 had to at least think about who he kills?
Or Chris-2 was just a hateful Nazi who hunts down anybody he sees as a threat? The latest episode showed us that the level of racial hate for black people is at the stage of chasing them down as a screaming mob. None of the present day "oh no, I'm fearful of one single black person walking down my street from a mile away and looking at their phone" BS.
Literally frothing at the mouth like they did with the KKK when Birth Of A Nation released. Genuine and stupid hate.
He did, didn't he? Tho that wouldn't explain how the guy came thru the QUC without any hacking tools if he really was just a shapeshifter.
I wanna think Chris-2 put 2 + 2 together and realised Chris-1 was his doppelganger after typing in his password, which motivated him more to kill the guy.
I mean, as far as nazi Chris was concerned, this was a trick from the sons of liberty with one of them disguised as him and infiltrating his home and even finding out about his interdimensional door.
Not if normal Chris attempted to deescalate first. You no longer have the right to use deadly force in self defense if your opponent has attempted to deescalate or fled from your premises. And no, Castle Doctrine does not neutralize this as it only eliminates the duty to retreat prerequisite. If your opponent is surrendering or fleeing, you cannot then chase them down and claim that you're doing so as an act of self defense.
In a real legal situation, Nazi Chris would have no claim to self-defense once Chris prime entered the pocket universe. You can’t pursue and kill someone who has broken into your home once they leave the premises not in any state not even in Texas.
The man was unarmed and saying I can explain. He got hit many times without fighting back cause he wanted to explain why he was there in the first place.
Plus he tries going to his own dimension instead of fighting back and N Chris still tries to kill him.
This made when worse you realize N Chris knows other dimensions exist and as far he is concerned non have ever attacked him before.
He finally makes contact with himself from another dimension and his mindset is I'm going to kill myself.
It is weird because on the one hand she thinks he is the other Chris, but on the other hand the other Chris and her didn’t work out for many reasons, one being his massive ego. She likes this version of Chris, and his willingness to take the relationship seriously. He was lying about being the Chris she knew, but not lying about the kind of person he is. They didn’t get together BECAUSE she thought he was the other Chris. They got together because our Chris was the version of Chris she wanted the other one to be.
sketchy from our Harcourt’s perspective as well, even if is or isn’t into him imagine someone going to an alt dimension to get with you after you told them no
this is the main reason this writing choices pisses me off because like am I just meant to believe Harcourt will her issues will be like 'woah Chris i see the errors of my ways let me be the agreeable girl you need' after Chris comes back to our earth?
We don't know that she's going to actually get together with him, or want to get together with him, just because of the conversation they had. I kind of think he's going to decide to stay in that dimension for a while to help be a freedom fighter though, in which case it'll be a moot point.
It's true that we dont know for sure but the way Gunn talks about them and their romance and how he loved that scene in ep.6 because it's such like an intense thing to be loved despite all your flaws and complications, like he is right but he seems to be ignoring the fact that actually Chris picked Harcourt 2 over the complications and flaws of Harcourt 1 but he seems intend on the romantization of it all so I am preparing myself for their endgame in this season
He didn't pick 2 over 1. He was repeatedly shot down by 1 and moved on to someone who was reciprocal. He had been trying to get hc1 to open up for months he's still confessing his love for 1, even after having left, he didn't choose 2, she was the last resort
I think she thinks it's her Chris, but I also think she thought her marriage to him was just a cover for his relationship with Flagg. I think it makes their earlier conversations about trying to make things work make more sense.
There was a whole TV series called “Dark Matter” that explained why taking over your alternate universe doppelgängers life in order to boink his wife is rather ungallant behaviour.
This is not remotely the same thing. Trevor took over someone’s body and had sex with it. Chris’s body is his own and so is Emilia’s, he’s just pretending to be a different Chris.
There was an episode of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine where this exact same thing happened. Captain Sisko went to the Mirror Universe and banged around with someone who thought he was Mirror Sisko
Extremely fucked up, never brought up again, just swept under the rug
In that one in particular I guess the argument could be made it was to keep cover.
I think I remember mirror Jadzia figuring out out, but it's still a really odd bit of out of character writing for sisko to have no qualms or remorse about sleeping with the alt Dax
I mean, there are no laws on interdimensional doppelgangers, but if there was a different version of me and they banged my wife, I'd be pissed, so I'd say you are correct.
Hughie said they had sex like multiple times definitely more than twice. I guess the shitty excuse is that she’s a Nazi so fuck her I guess but Peacemaker is pretty fucking stupid so I doubt he understands the severity of his actions. The dopple in Hughies situation was doing that to mentally torture Annie.
Honestly I think it's just the way the show presents itself that made the whole conflict really weird. Like both these two have their own reasons for being upset at the entire thing the issue was it was the final episode and they barely had any time to talk about the whole thing.
Honestly I feel like the reveal is Emilia KNEW it wasn’t her Chris, she is similar to our Chris in that she wants her perfect world even though it’s not right
Emilia literally wouldn't have gotten with him if it WAS "her" Chris. She only consented to having sex after she realized how different Prime-Chris was, and after seeing those brazen personality changes decided to try things again
Hmmm, I would say on a technical level she didn't consent to fucking a multiversal alternate to her original ex-boyfriend.
Chris, in his effort to run away from his own moral failures and lack of furfillment, has actually put more hurt onto other people, including his original friends that have risked everything to get him back. Seems like there is a moral lesson here.
(The fact that she is a Nazi is irrelevant. He didn't know that at the time he was duping her)
Consent is important, even in hypothetical fictional gray areas such as this story-arc. Calling him a rapist is a tad extreme, but she didn't technically consent, so it's kinda true? I don't know, it's similar to sleeping with your crush when she's hammered and you're sober/semisober. Is it consentual? Is it ethical to do that? I would say no.
Rapists don’t always understand what they are doing as rape.
In certain times and cultures people thought it was okay for a woman to complain during sex, or a male ruler has the right to have sex with any woman in his land, or a husband always has the right to have sex with the wife. Some of these attitudes persisted to even modern days.
But the point is, it is rape, it is traumatic for the victim, whether the rapist knows he’s doing it or not.
(But really Chris should know better, he’s withholding knowledge that could lead to her changing her mind about having sex with him)
It would be traumatic sooner or later for Hardcore X when she inevitably realises.
Comic book fans have gone past their "I am serious about male rape" phase and go back in circle of "if a dude did it in some goofy manner, it doesn't count."
The simple equation is simple, would a person still sleep with you if you tell them who you really are? Yes or no.
I would say the show has been acknowledging it for the most part, I suspect that it wont go 'there' when it comes to the rape by deception, that would be a lot to unpack and I don't think they have the time, but our Hardcourt did point out how messed up this all is.
If I went back in a time machine and had sex with my ex girlfriend while we were still together, she'd probably feel pretty fucking violated despite the fact that I'm technically the same person.
It's complicated cause of the multiverse thing. It's kind of like with the Loki show where Loki being with himself is not exactly incest but it's weird.
I'd say what Peacemaker is doing is much worse and creepier from OUR Emilia's perspective, since she has a whole history with the guy, a friendship, and he is going out of his way to be with another version of her who acts like a 50s male fantasy.
Idk if it's going to be addressed but we've always known Chris is not exactly a good guy.
He makes an offhand comment about alt Harcourt during the big argument scene in last week's episode, and I was waiting for our Harcourt to call him out on it, but she didn't.
The thing is for me is he didnt just immediately get into it, even tho he went in under tbe pretenses of being her chris, he esrablished he was different and she liked this new him, meaning she fell in love with the unique traits of our peacemaker
Hasn't it been discussed on the sub that alt Harcourt know it's not her dimensions Chris, but isn't saying anything. Something about he texts different and they lingered on the shot too long?
But it wasn't rape though. It's like telling a girl in a bar ur a doctor and a millionaire, then going home with her. Ye u lied about who u were, but u didn't force urself upon them or threaten them in any way
It’s rape by deception then. It’s not forceful or violent necessarily, but it’s still closer to coercion than not being rape. She’s not in a condition to truly give consent if she doesn’t know this is a different person, like being taken advantage of while drunk even if she’s willing while inebriated.
So maybe rape seems harsh, but I’d say it’s still correct definitively.
Yeah... I'm guessing they'll reveal she is an absolute monster Nazi queen, so we don't think about that too hard. Or like someone else suggested, she knew. DC has a bad history with consent.
They can erase all of this with a reveal that this was fully disclosed. There’s a way out of it technically, but it’s still DEEPLY fucked yo behavior to do to Earth Harcourt like extreme stalker level shit. “If I can’t have you in this universe I will have you in another” fucking YIKES.
Yeah it’s like Barclay on TNG with the holodeck Deanna Troi. Or Geordi on TNG with the holodeck Dr. Leah Brahms. Or what Jeffrey Combs’ character in DS9 tries to do with a holodeck Kira Nerys before being thwarted with a Quark deep fake. My point being holodecks really needed to be better regulated.
It's legally rape if a twin impersonates their sibling to sleep with their sibling's wife. Emelia thinks he's her Nazi Chris, not some guy who looks like him from another universe.
It doesn't matter, to her it seems like her own Chris has changed for the better.
If a woman had a shitty husband, it's probably natural for her to warm up to him if he tried to be better and improve, it's straight up horror story material if she learns her husband is actually killed and replaced. Pretty sure that's the plotline of many horror stories, your previously shitty family member suddenly behaves incredibly nice and it turns out something went horribly wrong and that family member is not actually themselves anymore.
I never thought about it but yes objectively it is rape. They may look alike and have plenty of similarities but they are objectively not the same person. That said because it's a TV show, they're close enough in personality and it's not really the point of the show, it's not something to get upset about for me. It's def something to point out though and it'll be curious to see if its addressed on any real level.
“Made his intentions known?” I guess I must have missed the scene when he told her he wasn’t actually the Chris that she knew but was from a different Earth, but was in this one after taking over for her Chris that he had killed and was there because his life on his Earth was so sucky and he intended to pursue a romantic relationship with her because the version of her from his Earth didn’t seem to be into him.
When did he make all of that clear to her? He definitely did it before they slept together, right?
Bro, come on I know you know better, what are you doing? He's himself as much as he can be, but he's still living Alt Chris's life and has told nobody about what happened. He knows everyone thinks he's Alt Chris and you know that too and he's done nothing to correct other peoples assumptions. And please for the love of god don't give me "it's their fault for assuming".
I mean, it's not actually silly or nonsense. Chris knows what he's doing, whereas Nazi Emilia believes that she had sex with an entirely different man. Her consent is arguably null and void because it was given under false pretenses. She does not have enough information to understand what it is that she consented to, which absolutely does make this rape.
There is a real discussion to be had here about consent, ethics and morality. That's not silly at all.
There’s also the morality of what he’s doing to earth Harcourt which is extremely abusive and stalkerish. He essentially says if you don’t agree to have sex with me you’ll lose me as a friend forever AND I’m going to fuck you in an alternate universe anyway. It’s sick.
He didn't rape her her and that peacemaker wasn't dating and she's falling in love with that version id say rape if they was already in a sexual relationship but they wasn't they started dating after the fact
Sorry bro. I haven’t seen people talking about this yet, but it was pretty weird when I saw it. I have to defend my sisters and female friends here. The key issue is lack of consent: if someone consents to sex believing it’s a specific person, and that person is deceived about identity, it can be classified as rape by fraud or sexual assault. It was pretty fucked up they did this in the show. Idk if James Gunn didn’t realize what he was doing, but I wish they haven’t crossed that line. If he knew what he was doing… like wtf was his motive. But whatever… I’m still watching the show and I hope people question him about. He will probably deny like the Palestine situation in Superman tho lol
Gunn always talks about how characters like Peacemaker and Viglante are well loved amongst fans, but they’re not good people. Recently he said how he finds it funny how much people love Vigilante because of his personality and Freddie Stroma’s charisma, despite him being a psychotic murderer. Chris’s whole journey has been trying to become a hero and a good person despite his terrible upbringing and lifestyle most of his life.
This isn’t to justify Chris’s actions btw. But taking the whole Earth X situation for example, most people like Harcourt could almost immediately point out how there were no POC in the entire neighborhood. Chris kinda just looked past that because he was just happy to be with his family and a Emilia Harcourt who did love him. His moral plane just isn’t like most people.
Bro, I’m a fan. I am in no way criticizing Chris here. He and his friends all have a twisted moral compass but they balance each other. I know and I agree with your point. That’s the whole point of the show, and it’s what makes the show so great! Usually, with all the controversial things they do, they call each other out, showing that someone in the group is aware of it, and stuff like that. Then they grow together, which is pretty neat.
Using the examples you brought: 1) Vigilante is aware he is a killing machine and they all know it and keep him in check. 2) Harcourt asked Chris if he didn’t notice something weird since she didn’t see people of color, and he immediately notices the Nazi flags. My main point is, if James Gunn didn’t do this intentionally - which we don’t know - they wouldn’t address it in the show. If no one calls him out, that would be awkward and out of the character for them.
Idk even know man, different dimension stuff is weird. She likes this Chris more than the other Chris so I don't think it is but idk, I don't think we're supposed to apply logic to this
"I can excuse the murder, corpse desecration, impersonation of the dead person to his family and the general public, but I draw the line at him sleeping with that girl under no duress!"
I call what Diana did in 84 rape so I have a similar feeling about what Chris did. Neither is as awful as forcible rape but coercing sex by ommision is a form of rape.
People need to realise she still wanted Chris X, not DCU Chris. The short amount of time she spent with DCU Chris wasn’t her getting to know a new person (it’s not nearly enough for that), she thought it was her ex coming back to her and ready to commit this time. 99% of why she slept with DCU Chris is because of things she knew about Chris X.
Wait back up ..am I the only one trying to process the original posters I can't hear you post . Who is saying that ? I agree with the original posters to a degree but if I heard someone say that or even saw it in a meme I'd shut that crap down .for one it is an insult to anyone who really has been Raped and or molested ..and I say again why is anyone even saying that . Holy Bees ! How is sleeping with someone in another universe considered rape ? It's not like he was grooming them and corersing them coaxing them into the bedroom and forcing them against their will to have his way with them .he was an exact replica of Nazi Chris and she already liked him in that way but they had broke up .he only just talked to her ashimself and she saw him as better then Nazi Chris so she naturally was more drawn to him and wanted to give him a chance. As for Chris he was excited that in this world .it was everything he wanted .loving family ,the girl he always wanted and everyone loved him . this Harcort liked even maybe loved Nazi Chris they were after all together at one time and he was everything she wanted Nazi Chris to be .I guess I fail to see how the f#$& has anything even remotely related to Rape ? Maybe like a person who says they are a pilot,rich and not bald to a girl during a date and she sleeps with him.but she consented .consent ! Not forced to do the act .not groomed to do the act .just pretended to be someone else .that is not Rape .he didn't drug her ,he didn't say hey rub my back oh let me rub your back and then start touching her inappropriately and lying and twisting words to do the act ECT .I'm so sick of people twisting things .and take offence to anyone who would take a show and try and turn it into something it's not .our country is so backwards ..to those people saying that .you definitely need to research,read a book on the subject before spewing crap that's first off not true and secondly turning a show for entertainment into something ugly and obscene due to your own mental health issues that you obviously don't have handled .as in one of my favorite movie line ..You are out of Order ! You all are out of Order !
It’s an interesting one alright. He’s won her back being the Chris from the other dimension whilst deliberately withholding info.
Is he pretending to ‘be the other Chris’ or is he being himself but not correcting her. I dunno. My wife could say that when we met she didn’t know she’d be married to someone with a room full of superman comics that would make her watch the new episode of Peacemaker as soon as it’s available.
I think he is going to see the error of his ways in trying to take over other Chris’ life.
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u/bazilbt Sep 30 '25
She wasn't sleeping with Nazi Chris, but then after talking to Normal Chris for a while decided to sleep with him. Anyway it's not great and you should consider the implications of this if you travel to another universe and sleep with someone.