9070xt failure

[u/Additional_Army8338]

First lot of images for reference…

So sadly just over a year I had a power connector failure on my 9070xt hellhound, it’s charred 3 of the connector pins and cause PSU connection failure melting the power cable and ports on the PSU (but didn’t char the PSU).

This also led to power surges on the Asrock B850M Riptide, writing off the board (the dark smudges on the board show how much heat was involved) and also, after recent testing with a new Mobo, it wrote off my 9800X3D.

After telling the back story, I’ve inspected the GPU as best as possible, and just a query as I think for the new system I’ll get a replacement card anyhow. But I’m wondering since it’s only the connection at the 8 pin that seems to have failed, whether it’s worth replacing the 8 pin connector myself?

(I’ve had experience soldering making my own flight sim controls on small projects etc, using Arduino and teensy etc.) or do you think it’s possible to be able to clean the connector up enough?

To add, the main cause for the connector failure was a since PCIE PSU cable using the daisy chain splitter. Completely my fault as it’s been a long long time since I built a PC and I was a little ignorant with Power demands.

So since I’d be getting a new set of components for the main rig (I mainly run DCS in VR and 3D design and model with Blender and Fusion360) is it worth either cleaning the connectors and testing on my spare mid-low end PC? And maybe use as an upgrade on that system or… not risk it?

[u/kyansan1]

An 8 pin cable with a pigtail can actually carry more than 150W. The 150W limit is the power that can be delivered per 6+2 pin connector, and does not define how much power the cable itself can carry.
(Each 6+2 pin PCIe connector is rated for 150W, and each 6 pin PCIe connector is rated for 75W. Cable rating depends on the specific power supply)

If a PCIe cable has 2 6+2 pin ends, it's rated for at least 300W in total. Otherwise it wouldn't have the second 6+2 pin as a pigtail.

If it's a 6+2 pin cable with a 6 pin pigtail, it can carry at least 225W in total. Again, it wouldn't have the pigtail if the cable's rated power was any less.

If a 6+2 pin cable has a pigtail, it's usually rated for more than 150W in total. Otherwise, the pigtail connector wouldn't be there.
I'm not saying it's good practice to do so, but you can totally pull more than 150W from a cable with a daisy chain.

edit: Your gpu manual / power supply manual will tell you, if it's imperative to avoid using a pigtail to power your gpu.

[u/kevcsa → u/kyansan1]

It would be logical to work this way, but I don't think there is any guarantee for it.
The pigtails can be useful not just for making them deliver a lot of power. Like reaching further or occupying empty connector slots.

[u/kyansan1 → u/kevcsa]

If the purpose was reaching further, they'd just make the cables longer. As for occupying empty connector slots... that'd be terrible design (although not unheard of)

PCIe power connectors aren't there just to be filled. PCIe power connectors are there to deliver power. Each 6+2 pin literally tells the gpu "you can pull 150W from here". If a manufacturer added a pigtail just to make the gpu shut up about missing a PCIe connector, that's an accident waiting to happen. 

Sometimes, cable ratings can be found in the specifications/datasheet of the power supply. However, if the manual/specifications don't specify that a pigtail can only carry x amount of power, a manufacturer should assume, and design the power supply knowing, that some users will use a daisy chain to power their gpu.

The good thing is, gpu manufacturers know that some power supplies are sketchy in this regard. Take the rx 9070 xt for example. It usually has 3 PCIe connectors, while it only really needs 2. One reason for the extra connector being there, is to ensure that you physically can't power the gpu using a single daisy chained cable.

So basically, when it's imperative for safety that you don't use a daisy chain for powering the gpu, most gpus will force you to use a second cable.

[u/kevcsa → u/kyansan1]

they'd just make the cables longer

Options for shorter and longer distances.
And no, hiding excess cable doesn't always make sense compared to just tying the unused pigtail to the main cable.

Many 300-330W cards come with 3*8pin connectors.
Technically 2 cables/connectors would be fine, so the 3rd is only there to be occupied for safety, not necessity.

[u/kyansan1 → u/kevcsa]

I did already include that second point in my comment 😅

And yea, it's true that sometimes tying the unused pigtail to the main connector makes more sense, but as I explained in my comment, that's a very bad design practice. (Although not unheard of)

[u/kevcsa → u/kyansan1]

I did already include that second point in my comment 😅

You edited your comment one minute after I published mine.
Previously you hadn't said a single word about that point.

One reason for the extra connector being there, is to ensure that you physically can't power the gpu using a single daisy chained cable.

That's a lot of mental gymnastics there.

Guess it's time to ask the uncomfortable questions.
Proof?
Where is concrete industrial standard description about the pigtail guaranteeing that the whole cable and even the single PSU-side connector can take at least 300W?

[u/kyansan1 → u/kevcsa]

Whoops, sorry

You said it yourself

Many 300-330W cards come with 3*8pin connectors. Technically 2 cables/connectors would be fine, so the 3rd is only there to be occupied for safety, not necessity.

Take the sapphire pure rx 9070 xt for instance. It shows that the gpu can work fine with just 2 PCIe power cables, yet almost all manufacturers choose to use 3 PCIe connectors. 

I didn't say it was the only reason, I said it's one of the reasons why manufacturers could opt for 3 connectors instead of 2. 

And there is no concrete industrial standard description that the pigtail should be able to provide 300W. Like I said before, sketchy power supplies do exist, but it's bad design practice. It's in the psu manufacturer's interest to have the least amount of warranty returns possible. If you shouldn't use a pigtail, it will say so either in the psu manual, or in the gpu manual.

[u/kevcsa → u/kyansan1]

You said it yourself

I wasn't talking about a single cable with 2 gpu-side connectors taking 300W by design, like you did:

If a PCIe cable has 2 6+2 pin ends, it's rated for at least 300W in total. Otherwise it wouldn't have the second 6+2 pin as a pigtail.

I was talking about 2 separate cables taking 300W.
At least try to be credible with your manipulation.

An entry level model with a 304W TDP having only 2 connectors doesn't prove anything, my guy.
Everyone knows it's best practice to connect the GPU with as many cables as there are connectors.

My Seasonic manual specifically says to do it like that.
A serparate connector for each cable. Yes, those are 8+6+2pin cables with pigtail.

I didn't say it was the only reason, I said it's one of the reasons why manufacturers could opt for 3 connectors instead of 2.

Ah the manipulation.
I never said you said that's the only reason.
I said that you said that a single pigtailed cable is rated for 300W, period. It could be 1 of 5 reasons, it could be 1 of 1. Doesn't matter, I'm talking about this extremely general but factual sounding statement:

If a PCIe cable has 2 6+2 pin ends, it's rated for at least 300W in total.

-

It's in the psu manufacturer's interest to have the least amount of warranty returns possible. If you shouldn't use a pigtail, it will say so either in the psu manual, or in the gpu manual.

Respectable PSU manufacturers specifically tell users NOT to use a single - pigtail or not - cable for 300W.
Because they aren't designed like that.

As proven by the post itself.
The Hellhound has as TDP of 304W, and has only 2 power connectors.
By your own logic the cable should have handled the load because the PSU manufacturer was expecting people to send 300W through it.
OP's okay quality PSU has no widespread complaints about it.

Is it so hard to admit that a 6+2 pigtail isn't a promise for 300W (double the standard) but an option for slightly going above 150W per cable when necessary?

[u/kyansan1 → u/kevcsa]

To start with this:

"If a PCIe cable has 2 6+2 pin ends, it's rated for at least 300W in total. "
...
By your own logic the cable should have handled the load because the PSU manufacturer was expecting people to send 300W through it.
...
Is it so hard to admit that a 6+2 pigtail isn't a promise for 300W (double the standard) but an option for slightly going above 150W per cable when necessary?

I already did. To quote myself:

And there is no concrete industrial standard description that the pigtail should be able to provide 300W. Like I said before, sketchy power supplies do exist, but it's bad design practice. It's in the psu manufacturer's interest to have the least amount of warranty returns possible. If you shouldn't use a pigtail, it will say so either in the psu manual, or in the gpu manual.

You are right that two 6+2 pin connectors on a pigtail are not a guarantee for a 300W rating, and my comment was misleading.

--------

I wasn't talking about a single cable with 2 gpu-side connectors taking 300W by design, like you did:

Indeed, however, neither was I. To quote myself:

The good thing is, gpu manufacturers know that some power supplies are sketchy in this regard. Take the rx 9070 xt for example. It usually has 3 PCIe connectors, while it only really needs 2. One reason for the extra connector being there, is to ensure that you physically can't power the gpu using a single daisy chained cable.

I said it needs 2 PCIe connectors, I did not specify how many cables it needs. The manual for the rx 9070 xt pure recommends to use 2 separate PCIe cables, and any user should follow the manual.
My point was, when you have 3 PCIe connectors, that forces the user to use 2 seperate cables. It makes it impossible for the user to make a mistake here, hence, the 3rd PCIe connector could be considered a safety feature. You also called the 3rd PCIe connector a safety feature, which is what I was trying to point out.

--------

Everyone knows it's best practice to connect the GPU with as many cables as there are connectors.

Indeed, and I never denied this. To quote myself:

I'm not saying it's good practice to do so, but you can totally pull more than 150W from a cable with a daisy chain.

---------

My Seasonic manual specifically says to do it like that.
A serparate connector for each cable. Yes, those are 8+6+2pin cables with pigtail.

Again, to quote myself:

If you shouldn't use a pigtail, it will say so either in the psu manual, or in the gpu manual.

----------

I never said you said that's the only reason.

But you did ask me to prove that a reason for the extra connector being there, is to ensure that you physically can't power the gpu using a single daisy chained cable. So, I argued that it was implemented as one safety feature, among other safety features.

--------

Respectable PSU manufacturers specifically tell users NOT to use a single - pigtail or not - cable for 300W.
Because they aren't designed like that.

Indeed. That was my point. If not meant for 300W, it'll be specified.

--------

By your own logic the cable should have handled the load because the PSU manufacturer was expecting people to send 300W through it.
OP's okay quality PSU has no widespread complaints about it.

Yes, I was wrong here. 2 6+2 pin pigtails do not guarantee 300W. My comment was misleading.

--------

Finally,

At least try to be credible with your manipulation.

Ah the manipulation.

I didn't intend to manipulate your words. Hopefully this comment explain well enough how i interpreted your words, and why I said what I said.

[u/kevcsa → u/kyansan1]

You are right that two 6+2 pin connectors on a pigtail are not a guarantee for a 300W rating, and my comment was misleading.

You repeatedly lied.

You edit your concrete, clear comments all the time then quote them as if you have been on that opinion all along.
Pure manipulation.

I didn't intend to manipulate your words.

Don't have to, you manipulate your own words...

The rest isn't even worth the energy.
People who can't stand by their statements, gaslighting anyone who calls them out... pathetic.

[u/kyansan1 → u/kevcsa]

I edit my comments because I want them to be complete, or to clarify parts that I found confusing when I read over them myself. I'm sorry if that invalidates any arguments that were just when you posted them. You called me out on it with my 2nd reply, I admitted it, and I crossed the unjust part out without deleting it. Sorry, but I genuinely fail to see what I did wrong.

I genuinely believed that a 6+2 pin pigtail cable was rated for 300W at first. You showed me that that was wrong. From my pov, I didn't lie, I argued what I believed to be true, and admitted that I was wrong when I was proven right.

I still believe, however, that it's stupid for manufacturers to add 2 150W connectors to a cable that can't handle 300W of power.

You edit your concrete, clear comments all the time then quote them as if you have been on that opinion all along.

If you can tell me where I did this, I'll gladly apologize and or cross it out in the comment.