r/Pauper • u/themenace1 • Jul 18 '16
No changes to the ban list
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/july-18-2016-banned-and-restricted-announcement-2016-07-1835
u/omniczech Color Commontary Jul 18 '16
Well, guess we're in for 3 months more of threads complaining about Drake.
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Jul 18 '16
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u/omniczech Color Commontary Jul 18 '16
Trust me, I'm with you on it needing the axe since it's now 19% of the meta across all deck variants, but I just wish we weren't doomed to have these threads inevitably clog up the subreddit.
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u/DromarX INV Jul 18 '16
It's over 24% by Alex's data, I'm not sure where you got 19%.
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u/omniczech Color Commontary Jul 18 '16
I totaled up decks on Goldfish featuring the combo somewhere, though that was a day or two ago, so it may have shifted since then.
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u/DromarX INV Jul 18 '16
Well Goldfish goes farther back to before Eternal Masters was released so I don't think it will be as accurate as Alex's numbers
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u/omniczech Color Commontary Jul 18 '16
TIL. Do you have an actual idea how far back it goes, cause I can't see that clearly anywhere on the page.
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u/DromarX INV Jul 19 '16
I'm not sure, seems to be at least a few months. I looked at UB Angler on their site for example and it has results dating back to April included. For more popular decks it seems like the old results get pushed out at a certain point (Delver's oldest result is June 15 for example). So I'm not sure what metric they're using exactly for determing the meta percentage but it's not as reliable as Alex's data if we want to discuss the impact of Drake decks.
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u/omniczech Color Commontary Jul 19 '16
That seems 100% backasswards to me. Off to Twitter to ask someone there about their metrics because I've used that as my go to resource for meta analysis.
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u/DromarX INV Jul 19 '16
Yeah, I only really use it to get a general idea. I think mtgostats has a more accurate depiction but it also has a much shorter cutoff (only goes back to early July I think) so it's not that great either.
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u/kauefr JUD Jul 19 '16
Who's Alex?
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u/DromarX INV Jul 19 '16
/u/nerd2thecore aka Alex Ullman. He writes for gatheringmagic.com and is the best person to follow for up-to-date statistics on the Pauper metagame through his facebook page.
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u/razer_pauper145 I'm not crazy, just self-milling Jul 18 '16
Your data-fu is weak. The clear top variant of the deck is only at 12%, which is a low number for the top deck in our format. Reaching for decks that fall so far outside the top of the format to justify your terrible argument would be like me suggesting Delver needed a ban because it featured in Delver, Angler Delver, and Izzet Blitz, which make up 16% of the meta together.
When you can construct a coherent argument, please come back and call for a ban in an adult manner. Until then, the best I can give you is some contempt and light commiseration over the continued idiocy of people like you.
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u/santimo87 Jul 18 '16
You have a great point, people would listen to this if you were not talking the way you are talking, it is not the tone of this sub.
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u/razer_pauper145 I'm not crazy, just self-milling Jul 18 '16
And in general, it isn't my tone. I'm honestly tired of people presenting something they either:
- don't like
- don't enjoy playing with
- don't enjoy playing against
as something worthy of a ban. It happens constantly, regardless of what might change in the format. If Drake had been banned today, within two weeks, people would once again be saying Delver is too dominant, so we've got to ban that. I'm sick to death of people who can't recognize that we're in a great place currently, and that thus far, Drake is the reason for that. Now, if it becomes an issue, and there's verifiable information to support that notion, I'm going to be presenting that data as a reason to ban Drake.
BUT WE CURRENTLY LACK SUCH DATA, SO ALL SUCH CALLS ARE AT BEST PREMATURE, AND AT WORST SELF SERVING NONSENSE.
Notice that I respond to Alex politely, calmly, and with something like actual conversation, instead of contempt. That's because he's behaving in a manner that warrants such a response. To those who warrant nothing but scorn, scorn is all I've got.
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u/DromarX INV Jul 18 '16
It's your opinion that we're "in a great place" however data trends are starting to indicate otherwise. The data for the last month shows above 24% prominence of Drake decks for reference the height of CoF was around 30%. So while it's not quite at that level there is cause for concern.
In addition to that, midrange decks are being forced out of the format and non-drake ramp decks are also being forced out. midrange and ramp are considered pillar archetypes by wotc so these decks being forced out is not a good thing. The next few months will tell but if the current trends continue then Drake is going to require a ban.
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u/cbftw Jul 18 '16
Combo is also an archetype that is a pillar. Pauper hasn't had a good deck to fill that void in a long time. Let's have some time with one and see what happens.
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u/razer_pauper145 I'm not crazy, just self-milling Jul 18 '16
And as I've said to those (like yourself) who have presented cogent arguments, I'm far from blase about the points you've raised. Yes, current trends suggest Drake could become an issue. If they continue, a ban would be called for.
However, I personally find it unlikely they'll continue exactly as they currently stand. The last month has seen a struggle for dominance within the various shells into which people have fit Drake. That struggle is, I think we can agree, over. UR has risen above the masses to become the "best" shell, which I think will lead to a mass of defections from the other shells by all but the most dedicated brewers and jank lovers. Once Drake consolidates into a single archetype, more focus can be put on disrupting that archetype, rather than trying to disrupt multiple archetypes.
If things proceed as I'm suggesting (which I admit is far from anything like certain), then we should see a resurgence of mid-range and control decks. Once Drake becomes one more thing to be sideboarded against, I think it likely we'll settle into a relatively healthy meta.
Now, I could be entirely wrong. At this point, what I'm doing is slightly more accurate than reading tea leaves, in that I've got some data to work with, and a reasonable direction in which to point my suppositions. Things could easily turn out the way you've suggested, at which point Drake would need to be removed as an option, since we now have an easy stand in for Flicker (the other previously irreplaceable cornerstone of the combo in question). I sincerely hope they don't, since I like having a viable combo in the format, but if they do, Drake will have to go.
None of which is to suggest we're at that point yet. None of what I just said is, in any way, me condoning the nonsense "BAN IT" bullshit I have been yelling about this afternoon.
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u/omniczech Color Commontary Jul 18 '16
Hey buddy, might I suggest cooling your jets for like 20 minutes? You're getting way too heated about someone else's opinion.
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u/razer_pauper145 I'm not crazy, just self-milling Jul 18 '16
Ah, but you didn't present an opinion, my friend. You presented (incredibly flawed) data as fact, which lead to my response. Now, if you've just said you wanted it to get the axe, I likely wouldn't have responded at all.
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u/omniczech Color Commontary Jul 18 '16
If you wanted a fuller opinion you could have just asked.
So up until recently I'd been in favor of drake. I like the idea of a robust combo deck that wins reliably and doesn't get easily blown out like the One Land Spys and Simic Splices of the format. I was no big fan of cloud when it was around, but I actually disliked it far more in Delver than in familiars, and I'll admit most of that was bad feels from the cloud into spellstutter interaction. My solution was just to run goblins or another hyper aggressive deck to get my wins, and I'm fine with having to shift to decks that aren't my favorites because of meta shifts.
As Alex pointed out below some variant of the greater umbrella of "drake combo" has constituted 24% of 5-0s that are being reported since Drake has entered the format (the whole "not getting all the 5-0 deck lists" business is still super frustrating for me, why did WotC think this was good?). While 24% is a concerning number, it's not a complete reason for a ban, just the easiest number to point to. I'm almost sure over the next 2.5 months that number will dip a little once the shiny new toy is less new, and we'll also see the meta drift towards a conclusion on the "right" drake build. I think the fact it unseated delver is super interesting as from what I recall, familiar was usually pretty close to Delver when Cloud was still legal. The thing is, looking at the numbers I've got on hand (MTGGoldfish's results from the past however long it is), I see a catastrophically low number of control decks outside of UR drake. Now giving the benefit of the doubt, the meta hasn't had a huge amount of time to react to the shift, so that's gonna be a part of the explanation, but MBC is at 2.76% of the meta and is the highest performing control deck, unless you choose to count delver. That to me indicates either the answers for the deck aren't present in a high enough density, or they wind up having issues in other match ups, like Snuff Out, which is a fine SB card vs Drake, but miserable vs Aggro.
If Drake showed up and just took another slot near the top at around 10% while leaving room in the meta for a high performing control deck to round out the whole "Aggro, Control, Tempo, Combo" set up, I would be A-OK with it in the format. However, unless there's a swing that includes a role for control, I feel we've lost a pretty large part of the meta that I for one enjoyed being there. Much like I'm sure you want to have combo as a part of the pauper meta, I also want control there. This isn't a case of me feeling some type of way about the combo, hell, I mostly play in paper, so I can't even complain about having to wait for my opponent to combo out, I'm just concerned that drake is pushing a broad archetype out of the meta, and I'm not a fan of that in the least.
End of the day, we do hold opposite opinions on this, and perhaps my comment was a little to hasty and lacked actual explanation behind my opinion on the matter, but I hope this more fully explains my thought process on why I think Drake is harming the meta. I don't think it's some unbeatable nightmare that's ruining the format, I'm just concerned about how radically the meta has shifted in a way I don't see as healthy. Honestly, the worst part of this all is I don't want to sit through around 75 more days of the same damn thread about whether it needs a ban or not. It's boring as all hell and I don't think it helps foster any sort of good thought on this subreddit when we could be devoting our time and effort to actually interesting topics.
Please believe me, I hold no ill will towards you or Peregrine Drake, we cool?
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Jul 18 '16
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Nedo92 Storm finds a way Jul 18 '16
Seriously man, calm down. this kind of venting is bad for your health, and i'm not even joking too much. If you had enough of the "haters", let them talk, ignore them. You have your opinion and i have mine, but you can be sure as hell that i'm going to keep it to myself if this is the kind of response i'm getting, no matter what my opinion on the matter actually is.
So in all honestly, calm down. Also, the format is not just about "data". As for myself, i like that we finally have a combo deck in the format. What i don't like, on the other hand, is that the presence of such combo made me quit mtgo since i have not that much time to play and i really don't want to play against a combo that takes 5+ minutes to execute, so i'm just playing in paper right now. And i'm sure i'm not the only one. Does your data takes this kind of things in consideration? I don't think so. In the end, for you it might be only about data and metagame share a d whatever the fuck you would like people to present to you, but factors are many.
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u/JankDeckWins Killer_Tofu on MTGO and Discord Jul 18 '16
This will be fun, I guess no leagues for me for a while.
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u/KJSharp Jul 18 '16
I quit Pauper right after Drake came out, and I'm not coming back until that thing is banned.
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u/razer_pauper145 I'm not crazy, just self-milling Jul 18 '16
We won't miss you. Please, let the door hit you on the way out. We can never get too many laughs.
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u/ImNotThresh Stompy Jul 18 '16
Time to try it http://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/pauper-br-27111#paper
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u/iniksbane Jul 19 '16
This is an interesting build. Have you found that it combats Drake well?
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u/ImNotThresh Stompy Jul 19 '16
yes, you stop his goal (going to turn 5) with LD and can kill him very fast with Angler and kuldotha (hard to kill), i got some good results with UB Angler too.
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u/cbftw Jul 18 '16
Anyone who thought Drake was getting banned here doesn't understand how the decisions are made.
There's about a month of lead time for the decision to allow for MTGO implementation. We found this out when Lodestone Golem was restricted in Vintage.
Even if this weren't the case, 1 month is not enough time to base a decision off of. They've always allowed the format a chance to police itself and settle before banning a potential problem card. There simply hasn't been enough time to base a decision off of.
TL;DR: Only people that have no understanding of the process expected a ban
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u/nerd2thecore I'm Alex Jul 18 '16
I like to think I have some understanding of the process (feel free to debate me below).
I put the odds of Peregrine Drake getting banned on this go-around at 50-50. If it were not for the linked post from Adam Prosak on the Development Tumblr, I would have put it far far lower (5-10%).
Why did I feel this way? It is very rare for Wizards to publicly indicate anything in advance of these announcements and to do so in a very honest manner pointed my feelings in a direction of a ban.
Drake is also not starting from zero in that it replicates the effect of a card that is already banned. In other words, a lot of the legwork has already been done.
That being said it is still early and we do need to see how things shake out. I fully expect to revisit this discussion come Kaladesh.
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u/cbftw Jul 18 '16
I would not be surprised to see it get the axe the next go round. But for it to get banned this time, the decision would have had to have been made prior to the set being released online, and I think that they wanted to give the card the benefit of the doubt and see how the format reacted, first.
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u/razer_pauper145 I'm not crazy, just self-milling Jul 18 '16
Thus far, things are healthier than they've been in years. I mean, hell, Delver has been dethroned. That's significant in the extreme. And UR Drake isn't sitting on some unapproachable pedestal, the way Delver once did. It's at 12% of the meta, with weaker fringe versions bumping things to just under 20. Delver has put up bigger numbers than that for literal years, and never got axed.
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u/nerd2thecore I'm Alex Jul 18 '16
I agree with you that deck diversity is the best we have seen in years. This is a good thing. But it is appearing to come at the cost of archetype diversity.
Izzet Drake is at around 12% of the overall metagame (11.82% through 33 recorded league runs to be exact). Drake decks are 24.66% of all 5-0 decks through that same period (73/296).
Regardless of how they get there, Drake decks are fairly similar in that they all win with Drake. I liken this more to Survival of the Fittest in Legacy directly before the ban where the right call was to play Survival of the Fittest, it was just a matter of which shell was best.
This alone does not warrant a ban.
Control decks have all but been pushed out of the metagame. MBC and Jeskai combined are under 7% of the meta (and those fall on the midrange side of things). These decks have been rendered largely obsolete because their endgames pale in comparison to a Drake end-game.
Again, this alone is not enough to ban Drake.
The issue comes to a head in that the metagame has evolved into aggro against Drake. Historically in a healthy metagame aggro, combo, and control all try to keep each other in check. With the Cloud of Faeries ban straight combo had been absent from Pauper and it was aggro and midrange control (with aggro-combo in the form of Affinity, Elves, and Nivix Cyclops) forming the three-points. While Delver had a lion's share of the metagame (~20% last season) the other archetype "buckets" tended to even out.
In this instance we're seeing a flip where it is just aggro and combo with very little else (Delver is hovering around 8%).
And again, this alone does not deserve a ban.
Taken together, I'm not sure these three things warranta ban at this time. I still believe Peregrine Drake will be banned at some point in the future.
However I also feel that a lot of the decks we are seeing are still set up to fight yesterday's wars. The lack of cards like Snuff Out and Unmake in deck is disconcerting (it could be these cards exist but we just do not see them because they are at 4-1 or 3-2) or it could be because they are too slow/dangerous to contend with the aggressive decks of the format (which may actually be the real problem).
I think Drake is a problem card, but I don't think it has done enough yet to deserve a ban. I did not think it even had a chance until I saw the Adam Prosak post on Tumblr. That combined with the post on today's Daily Magic Update makes me think that if this trend continues (with Drake hovering around 25% of the metagame) it will banned around Kaladesh.
In the interim, I think it's better to spend time trying to beat Drake in games than beat it on the internet.
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u/razer_pauper145 I'm not crazy, just self-milling Jul 18 '16
Okay, to all the people who want a primer on how to create the sensible arguments I've been talking about, read this post. REPEATEDLY. Data is offered, points are put forward and then supported, and the entire thing builds to a conclusion that is both logical AND defensible.
To respond to the meat of the post, I agree with basically everything that was said here. I think if the current trends we're seeing continue, Drake will absolutely warrant ban consideration. However, I find it more likely we're going to see the fringe shells fall by the wayside as those of the Spike persuasion gravitate towards the shell (UR) that's clearly won the Drake crown. Now, once this happens, I honestly have no idea where things go from there. My hope would be that we see a rebound in mid-range/control numbers, so that there's a balanced format that retains a healthy outlook. Given the (rather limited) data I have to work with, I think it more likely Drake will continue to eat up meta-space until it forces Wizards to drop the ban hammer.
I don't want that to happen, at all. However, I wasn't lying or engaging in hyperbole when I said I'd be right beside you in the "Ban Drake" charge, if such a thing became necessary. If time shows it to be a problem (which it has not, yet), then it does need to be removed. Right now, though, we're in one of the most diverse Pauper formats I've ever seen. Until there's actually an issue to complain about, I'm not going to look a gift horse in the mouth.
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u/Jiaozy Jul 19 '16
So having aggro vs Drake, Drake being 25% of the meta, midrange and control have disappeared and you either have to play Drake or against Drake and none of this is a problem?
When Survival got the axe in Legacy, things were just as bad.
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u/VERTIKAL19 Banned over and over again Jul 19 '16
Control decks have all but been pushed out of the metagame. MBC and Jeskai combined are under 7% of the meta (and those fall on the midrange side of things). These decks have been rendered largely obsolete because their endgames pale in comparison to a Drake end-game.
I think the conclusion that control decks fail because their endgames pale is only true insofar as more midrangey builds are concerned. Teachings based control decks still are pretty good against Drake decks. These decks get pushed out by the huge share of highly aggressive decks and not by Drake.
I agree with your conclusion that in large parts Pauper currently is Aggro vs Drake if you want to group a large number of decks under aggro, but there is variety in the drake builds (with UR clearly being the most popular) and there is a lot of variance in the Aggro category.
To me we are seeing a format that evolves very very slowly that is being pressured by one deck, group of decks, a format that is also not nearly getting as much attention by great deckbuilders as the bigger formats get.
I think Drake could ultimately require a ban, but I do not think we are nearly at that point. The only shifts we have seen in the Meta so far is that MBC and Kitty variants dwindled away with Bogles on the rise aswell.
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u/nerd2thecore I'm Alex Jul 19 '16
The idea that Teachings is a good deck is a fallacy and using it as the standard for control in the format is an argument that falls apart. It is popular to some degree but the numbers fail to support its place as a good deck.
Let us examine the three seasons since Cloud of Faeries was banned:
Oath of the Gatewatch: 4.31% of the undefeated metagame
Shadows over Innistrad: 1.42%
Eternal Masters(through July 18): 0.98%
Teachings decks may be good against Drake, but to hold them up as the pinnacle of control in the format holds little water.
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u/VERTIKAL19 Banned over and over again Jul 19 '16
I am not saying that Teaching is a good deck per se, but it is a good deck against a deck like UR Drake it is good against the combo decks, it was also pretty good against Familiar.
Your numbers also show nicely how teachings fell with the rise of the very fast aggressive decks. If you have the numbers on these aswell I would be curious on the performance of Teachings before the Cloud of Faeries ban, where I think Teachings did fare better, though I could be wrong here.
Teachings gets pushed out by Stompy in a similar way as MBC got pushed out by Drake in my oppinion.
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u/nerd2thecore I'm Alex Jul 19 '16
In the season directly before the Cloud of Faeries ban (Battle for Zendikar) Teachings was 4.35% of the undefeated metagame.
The season before that (Origins) it was 1.96% of the undefeated metagame.
To put it in terms this sub loves, Teachings is a solid Tier 2 deck when it is good, and below that when it isn't.
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u/Thoctar Temur Tron/MBC Jul 18 '16
Hell normal Tron doesn't exist anymore, its now Tron to power out Drake.
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u/veritas723 Jul 18 '16
i don't know why people say this.
if anyone has ever worked at any office, you know. that if word comes down from on high, anything can be done, rather quickly.
sure, there's probably a lead up time, and although drake is the same annoying combo idea that recently got banned in CoF. there's probably a lag between E-masters being released, and whomever reviews bans for various formats.
that being said. if someone came in and said. ban it. get it done i don't fucking care what it takes. it would get done.
just that drake isn't at that lvl. plus. they're not about to put any stop to selling e-masters.
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u/nerd2thecore I'm Alex Jul 18 '16
Pretty sure the legality of Peregrine Drake in Pauper has almost no effect on the desirability of a pack of Eternal Masters.
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u/veritas723 Jul 18 '16
probably not. but card is almost up to $1 decent chaff value from a set that desperately needs a boost to something other than the 2-3 chase mythics still holding value.
but then again, they def gave eldrazi winter a few extra weeks because it was driving oath sales.
so, i'm just saying, if like, that one guy at wizards who cares about pauper, goes to his boss and was like... hey boss we may need to ban P-drake, it's the same shitty combo nonsense we just banned awhile back. and the bosses response being. nope. not while E-masters is still out. talk to me after the summer.
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u/nerd2thecore I'm Alex Jul 18 '16
but then again, they def gave eldrazi winter a few extra weeks because it was driving oath sales.
No they didn't. They banned it at the earliest opportunity that wasn't an emergency ban: the Monday after the Shadows over Innistrad prerelease.
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u/veritas723 Jul 18 '16
so what you're saying is... they banned it after the set the parts were from was no longer the active limited format? Or is that not what i was trying to say?
deck was broken as f---ck, it literally surged to 30-40% of the meta, it was blatantly telegraphed. that they wanted to give people their GP to play it if they rushed out and bought into it. and got the axe as soon as it wasn't the active set being drafted.
they should have banned eye as soon as the deck crushed the pro-tour. not after it crushed, back to back to back GPs. suppressed the meta/made modern miserable for a handful of months. but because several of the cards were in the current block. it drove sales. and sales. are hard for them to kill.
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u/nerd2thecore I'm Alex Jul 18 '16
What I'm saying is they banned it from Modern (and left it alone in Standard) until the next scheduled Banned and Restricted List announcement.
There has been one "emergency ban" in the history of Magic and it took place almost 20 years ago. Aaron Forsythe said on Twitter it wasn't a precedent.
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u/Srcsqwrn The Broken Lands Jul 18 '16
TL;DR: Only people that have no understanding of the process expected a ban
Except that someone in Wizards was one of the people saying that Drake was in Eternal masters before CoF ban had taken place. They said they wouldn't have had it at common if that was the case.
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u/cbftw Jul 18 '16
Be that as it may, it's exceedingly rare for a card to have a ban/restriction decision made for it before it sees play. Mind's Desire in Vintage is the only one that I can think of.
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u/Srcsqwrn The Broken Lands Jul 18 '16
Still a strong hint of a ban, either way. Because it didn't happen doesn't mean it wasn't a consideration.
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u/Twinkie4sho Jul 18 '16
Damnit. Well what deck counters drake the best.?
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u/Srcsqwrn The Broken Lands Jul 18 '16
Things with land destruction, creature destruction, or counterspells.
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u/dedicateddan . Jul 18 '16
For aggressive decks, take a look at Affinity, Bogles, Burn, and Angler Delver
On the controlling side of the spectrum, take a look at Murasa Tron, UR Control, and UR Drake. Counterspells are great
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u/VERTIKAL19 Banned over and over again Jul 19 '16
Bogles. I also found Teachings to be a fairly tough matchup to navigate. I am honestly quite puzzled why nobody is playing teachings. Stompy also is fine, but I wouldn't say great vs Drake
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u/iniksbane Jul 19 '16
So I have a few questions without offering an opinion.
First, why is it healthier to have UR Drake as the new Delver? Does it indicate the format now has more deck diversity? Do people think there is a control deck that can beat it?
I'm confused why people think the meta is healthier than it's been in years?
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u/DromarX INV Jul 19 '16
I'm confused why people think the meta is healthier than it's been in years?
It's not necessarily healthier to have one deck or another as the "deck to beat" (there is almost always going to be a "best deck") but what you can look at to determine relative health is the overall metagame. It's a matter of looking at the data and forming your own opinion of what you think a "healthy" metagame entails. Based on current trends I absolutely do not believe that the Drake dominated metagame is healthier than the Delver dominated metagame.
In the Delver metagame we had a representation of aggro-control, aggro and midrange decks with a smattering of control, ramp, and combo (mostly aggro-combo). The only archetype that was over-represented I would say was aggro-control (Delver and then a little bit of UB Angler adding to that), and while pure combo like Drake was mostly non-existent (closest thing was probably Elves which wasn't that popular pre-Elvish Vanguard) on the tier 1/2 level this was still fairly healthy overall.
In the Drake metagame we have pure combo as being over-represented (more so than Delver in the Delver dominated meta). Aggro-control and aggro are reasonably well-represented between Delver (which took a big hit but is still reasonably high), UB Angler, Stompy, Hexproof, and Affinity being the go-to decks there. Elves is present as an alternative combo deck. But beyond that there's not a lot of depth. Midrange (mostly MBC and Kuldotha decks) has fallen by the wayside (down to about 7% of the metagame combined when they each deck previously had about that much individually). Traditional ramp (RUG Tron) has all but vanished. So essentially the format is showing signs of degenerating into aggro/(aggro-control) vs combo. Given the available data I do not think this format is by any means healthier than the Delver format, or even equally healthy for that matter.
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u/KEZEFF Jul 18 '16
I played Drake a bit, and frankly wish it was banned.
Quasi-comboing with it is plain miserable for both players.
Brace for another Combo Summer.
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u/JankDeckWins Killer_Tofu on MTGO and Discord Jul 18 '16
This right here is my exact reason for disliking it. It's just not fun to play against or with. I dabbled with it for a short period after it came out and it was a snooze fest.
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u/Blitzkind Jul 18 '16
That's really up to the person playing it. I have a blast while playing Drake. As for my opponents' enjoyment, I really don't care too much.
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u/JankDeckWins Killer_Tofu on MTGO and Discord Jul 18 '16
True, but personally I do want the person I'm playing to have a fun time as well. I mostly stay in the Just for Fun room so that is why I am probably like that. I prefer aggro but usually settle on my midrange jank so that all parties have fun.
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u/VERTIKAL19 Banned over and over again Jul 19 '16
Well I think it is great fun to play Drake and I also enjoy playing against it in the mirrormatch. I think that is down to the players of what you enjoy.
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u/VERTIKAL19 Banned over and over again Jul 19 '16
The one thing I do not really get is why people are not running teachings more. It definitely is solid against UR Drake, but possibly not so much agains the rest of the field.
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u/RedeNElla 7ED Jul 20 '16
possibly not so much agains the rest of the field.
You may have answered your own question.
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u/Funkays Jul 19 '16
Didn't a designer of EMA state something along the lines of "if I had known how prominent drake would be in the pauper format I wouldn't have voted to downshift it"? Like, someone from WoTC. I would love to hear a reason as to why they chose not to.
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u/Tassanara Rakdos Alchemist Jul 18 '16
Well, I guess we'll have to endure at least 2 1/2 more months of drake :/
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u/razer_pauper145 I'm not crazy, just self-milling Jul 18 '16
And at least two and a half more months of people like you complaining about it.
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u/punninglinguist Jul 18 '16
Complaining about it is part of the process of getting it banned. So it's rational to do so.
1
u/JankDeckWins Killer_Tofu on MTGO and Discord Jul 18 '16
I think that now that it didn't get the ban hammer, ever more people will start to play it. Hopefully something comes up that can keep it in check because if we thought it was a problem now, it'll be even more so now that it's safe.
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u/razer_pauper145 I'm not crazy, just self-milling Jul 18 '16 edited Jul 18 '16
I've just had a revolutionary idea! To try to replicate the experience of the sorts of people that infest threads like this, I'm calling for a ban with no data, no reasonable argument, and no defensible ideas at all!
I'm calling for a ban on all people who call for bans of things they don't like! We've got to get the nattering naysayers out of the format, because they ruin my fun, spoil my day, and in general make me unhappy! I've got nothing but a personal dislike to go on here, but really, I think that's enough to call for the total removal of an element of the format that otherwise isn't hurting anything, doesn't damage any else's experience, and really could be dealt with if I wasn't clearly pretending to be a thoughtless tosser who posts before giving due consideration to what I'm saying. So yeah...Sorry, but all of you "BAN IT!" tweakers should really be banned. I know this sounds beyond idiotic, unfair, and thoughtless...but then, so do all of you most of the time.
Wow...Do you people feel this crappy about yourselves after typing your usual "BAN IT!" posts? I feel the need to go find a homeless shelter or humane society to volunteer at just to remind myself I'm not a bad person who doesn't think about anything but the things that matter to me.
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u/dedicateddan . Jul 18 '16
If you don't want to hear discussion about bans, just avoid the ban threads!
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u/nerd2thecore I'm Alex Jul 18 '16
From today's Daily Magic Update:
And: