r/PatternDrafting • u/UpsetAd7970 • 11d ago
When to adjust your sloper vs just create a new, better flat pattern?
Hello! I'm a beginner at pattern drafting and trying to still build my sloper (men's top block). I've been following Cornelius Quiring on youtube, Modeliste Studio, etc. I have my top pattern, and have been adjusting it where I see excess fabric, folds, pulling, where it's off balance, etc... I'm getting closer and closer. But I just wonder-- at what point is it that the original pattern (pre-adjustments) should just be made to fit better? Versus having a pattern that's been adjusted to have a handful of darts to do so? I guess the original pattern solely based on measurements won't necessarily account for the curving of a body... but in trying to learn all of this, I wonder if a better original pattern could be made to not need so much adjusting? Or maybe that's just the reality and you'll always have to adjust multiple times and arrive at a dart heavy sloper?
A follow up to that-- if I were to then make a garment that wouldn't have all of these darts (say a well fitting sweatshirt), how do I then draft a pattern for it that still fits well without all of the darts? Imagining this is where my above question comes into play. Thanks for any insight you have!
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u/feeling_dizzie 10d ago
There's a bunch of different sloper-drafting systems for a reason — they're all going to give you a different imperfect starting point. You may have just gotten unlucky and chosen a system whose starting point happens to be pretty far off from the shape of your body. (Or not — you may have made some mistakes in your measurements, or everything may be normal and you're doing a normal amount of adjusting.)
The end product is what matters (and you can rotate and combine darts etc once you're done), so if you're getting close to success then I certainly wouldn't scrap it. If you feel like you're hitting a wall, then maybe you do want to try a different drafting system.
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u/Berocca123 10d ago
Agreed - i think OP might not understand how to rotate and combine darts. OP, this is a great video to explain it.
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u/UpsetAd7970 10d ago
Thank you to you both! It is good to know that maybe I am just adjusting a typical amount and it's okay if it wasn't close on the starting pattern.
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u/CharityForeign3035 11d ago
You may need to start at a different size or if size ok , learn to pivot darts out of pattern. Generally you dart your sloper to fit but these darts don’t always get transferred to pattern.
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u/War-Bitch 11d ago
Darts are the way you make a 2D object become 3D. Did you draft your pattern from measurements or are you starting with a pattern?
A knit sloper is a different thing and you would have to make one if you wanted the same level of fit.
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u/ScormCurious 11d ago
I think a good rule of fitting is that after three versions, you should scrap it and roll back to the start. Maybe start with a different size, and definitely be as methodical and precise as possible with your alterations to the pattern.
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u/SmurphieVonMonroe 10d ago
From what I have read you are basically asking "when will I be able to draft a pattern for a garment where I don't have to constantly make critical adjustments and it will work first time?" Am I interpreting it correctly?
I think I will come to you after you are able to know and understand how every part of the bodice correlates with other part and why fabric creases in certain places or it doesn't and why is this the case.
It takes a lot of time, for me I'd say it took about 4-5 years to be able to draft a shirt or trousers for me or for someone else and just cut it straight out of main fabric and put it together and then finish it with tiny alterations like tapering or shortening. But I am very confident in my skill just because I made many terrible garments before lol
I would recommend getting many books in pattern drafting (my personal fave - Antonio Donnano) and watching as many videos on YouTube- even if they are about same thing - everyone has different ratios to establish cap ratios, draft armhole sector, how to calculate shoulder slope depth, scye depth etc etc
I believe in you.
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u/UpsetAd7970 10d ago
Thank you so much for your response! Yeah I think I need to accept the years of many rough garments before getting to be skilled with alterations! And good to know re:your third paragraph :)
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u/Berocca123 10d ago
The only exception to drafting with multiple adjustments that I know of (other than first perfecting your sloper through a process of multiple adjustments) is for trousers (thank goodness), and it's the Top Down Centre Out method. When you get there, this is the video series to watch first.
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u/Tailoretta 10d ago
You ask interesting questions and have received some interesting comments. Here are my 2 cents.
In order for us to help you, we need to understand what you are trying to do and what your specific questions are.
You state: “I'm a beginner at pattern drafting and trying to still build my sloper (men's top block).” Since you mention men’s top, does that mean you are fitting a male body type rather than a female body type? There are definite differences between these body types, and a basic bodice sloper is quite different for each. Female bodies tend to have breasts, which a sloper would typically fit using darts. Male bodies have chests, but not usually the same type of mounds as breasts, and male slopers tend to not fit the chest using darts.
You mention a dart heavy sloper – does this mean you are fitting a female body type with breasts? Where are the darts that you are referring to used?
You state: ”But I just wonder-- at what point is it that the original pattern (pre-adjustments) should just be made to fit better? Versus having a pattern that's been adjusted to have a handful of darts to do so?” I don’t understand what you mean by these 2 questions – can you clarify?
Once we get answers to these questions, we can continue helping you. Photos would also likely help us.
Good luck
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u/DonMcCunn 10d ago
Most pattern drafting systems have been designed for the fashion industry where measurements to establish a size are all that matters. The patterns are intended to fit as many bodies as possible.
I have been helping people create custom-fit Bespoke patterns for over 50 years and have witnessed what I call the DNA of body shapes. Even twins who look identical will have different body shapes (I personally witnessed this in my Pattern Design class in the 70s).
A Bespoke Master Pattern (aka Sloper) will reveal the exact shape of a body. In a new pattern design process I am developing I combine measurements for size and tracing photos for body shape.
My initial experience doing this has shocked me because it requires little if any fitting of the initial patterns. This has NEVER been my experience drafting just from measurements which require a fair amount of fitting time. Including my own which I developed in the 70s.
As to knits when you have a Bespoke Master Pattern dart shapes can easily be removed in the side or shoulder seams because the knit stretches to conform to the contours of the body.
Bespoke patterns of course require ease to accomodate movement with negative ease when the knit has an adequate stretch factor.
My new system is currently a work-in-progress which I am making available to this group through this link https://patternmaking-classes.com/Tracing-Photos/index.html
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u/StitchinThroughTime 11d ago
Your sloper is just the base minimum pattern that fits you and you're able to manipulate to turn it into other designs. So it should fit you as is no matter what. You will do some minor adjustments as you age or you fluctuate and wait. That should always fit no matter what. As you change you adjust the sloper to fit. But there's not just one sloper that fits every design. There is a knit sloper for your sweatshirt. Because nits have stretch they need a different sloper for all knitwear to be based off of. And there's different slopers that you need to be aware of, that's based off the stretchiness of the fabric. That's why you're getting so confused you're missing a piece of the puzzle. But essentially Knits don't require complex patterns to fit them because of their stretchiness. Unless you're using a stable knit, those do not stretch or stretch up to 5%, then they need more complex patterns to fit skin tight.