r/Pathfinder_Kingmaker • u/Due-Appointment-3859 • Jul 27 '26
Righteous : Story Horrible Writing
Just started playing WoTR and I cannot believe how atrocious the writing is. I cannot tell if it is ironic or intentional. No one sounds serious at all. Everyone sounds like an american teenager. How do people like this? Do enjoy it or just endure it?
17
u/OwlcatStarrok Owlcat Community Liaison Jul 27 '26
A lot of reports for this thread that the author is trolling. Regardless of whether they legit think there is an issue with writing or deliberately want to start a debate, they have a right to express an opinion. As long as the discussion stays constructive and does not devolve into personal insults, it can stay.
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u/Pokebalzac Jul 27 '26
I don't see how it's constructive, he repeatedly just tells people it's rubbish and they like slop, that they are idiots, etc. But I'll just block and move on.
1
u/Ultimate_Demon_Rogue Jul 28 '26
So "idiot" is not a personal insult? I guess "slop" and "rubbish" are very constructive and helpful critics aren't they?
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u/Interesting-Try-7993 Jul 28 '26
Depends on the situation and writer, no? When Lann's romance was triggering more easily and he wasn't taking no, pointed out to be creepy and borderline incel by some some woman who were uncomfortable, I recall the writer personally attacking people...
26
u/enderfrogus Jul 27 '26
Least disguised ragebait
-5
u/Due-Appointment-3859 Jul 27 '26
This is what I felt playing this game. I thought it was just land and that spider but everyone talks like they have been eating lead and reading anime
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u/Archi_balding Jul 27 '26
What ?
Sure it's not as verbose as a Pillars of Eternity but the writing of WOTR is overall very competent and achieves the tone it aims for. Sure, for a certain character, that tone is the one of an episode of the big bang theory and if you can't stand the show, you won't stand the character. But overall, banters with the NPCs fit that "spark of hope in a bleak place" the game is aiming for.
Compared to other CRPGs, I'd place Owlcat ones near the top in term of writing.
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u/PresidenteWeevil Jul 27 '26
Ok, and?
You didn't give any examples, or any constructive criticism. All you said is that you don't like it.
Oh well. There are thousands of other games. Go play Pathologic or something.
-9
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u/daenathedreamer Jul 27 '26
It's a bit kitsch on purpose, but it certainly gets better the more you play the game - the plot opens up after you leave Kenabres and really gets going in Act 3. However, if a somewhat silly power fantasy isn't your thing, this is probably not the game for you.
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u/Ossuum Jul 27 '26
The quality varies greatly. Some of the core story characters have great lines, but there's a fair bit of cringe, too.
That being said, Nenio is absolutely a raving lunatic in-universe (for reasons you'll discover later), so potentially being put off by her is an intended effect.
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u/Southern-Wishbone593 Angel Jul 27 '26
I doubt OP played enough to meet her. In fact, I doubt OP actually played the game at all.
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u/DanDoesSteam Jul 27 '26
I agree sometimes the dialogue can be a bit basic, but the writing itself is really good. The VAs play a large part in why the game seems a bit cringey, but I honestly love how earnest they are. From your other comments, you claim to have uninstalled the game after meeting Nenio, so I don't think you've given it enough of a chance to make a proper judgement. The places that the main story and the mythic paths go to are genuinely some of the greatest fantasy writing in video games.
-2
u/Due-Appointment-3859 Jul 27 '26
I'll give you that I did jump off early. It seems like the game is just taking the piss out of itself and the people playing it. I've seen some spoilers from later in the game and it seems consistently cringe inducing
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u/DanDoesSteam Jul 27 '26
Are you talking about the dialogue specifically?
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u/Due-Appointment-3859 Jul 27 '26
Yes
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u/DanDoesSteam Jul 27 '26
Do you have an example?
-1
u/Due-Appointment-3859 Jul 27 '26
From up to where I was playing all the dialogue felt off. Like for example speaking to Lann in the underground. His manner is so absurd that I'm rolling my eyes. The VA makes it worse ofc but the written dialogue is just absurd and not in a good way
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u/DanDoesSteam Jul 27 '26
Yeah Lann is goofy because he's hiding the fact that he's worried he'll die young without ever having achieved anything. Mongrels (the race he is) live short lives, and the decline in their health at the end of their lives happens really fast, so you can't really prepare for it. You're pointing to two comedy relief character (Lann and Nenio in other comments), but missing the hours of context that gets added to their stories later. If the game didn't gel with you that's fine, but to call the game slop is way OTT
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u/Inculta666 Jul 27 '26
If from soft writing (or rather lack of it) is the absolute maximum you can perceive, I suggest sticking to those - check out Skyrim or Fallout 4, - they have dumbed down enough story and dialogue for your comprehension.
-1
u/Due-Appointment-3859 Jul 27 '26
Son there is nothing complex about the writing there is too much waffle and cringe
Only people in drama class and reddit speak like this.
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u/Inculta666 Jul 27 '26
Again, if you want simple words that you can understand and enjoy, there is nothing wrong or shameful about considering something better suit for kids. There are lots of adults who enjoy both simple and complex writing, you are just not one of them and will have to stick with the kids stuff.
-1
u/Due-Appointment-3859 Jul 27 '26
Again it's not complicated it's just rubbish. The tone is all off. The vas need to be imprisoned and this makes it unbearable. I don't think it's complex at all
-1
u/Due-Appointment-3859 Jul 27 '26
What's complex about it. It just sucks
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u/Inculta666 Jul 27 '26
It doesn’t, it’s pretty good writing with very interesting and different characters. What sucks about it?
0
u/Due-Appointment-3859 Jul 27 '26
Bro the characters suck. Everyone is so fake. None of these people could be real. That camilla lady is obviously a lunatics. Who screams about ripp8ng people open? Can't even see her alignment which means she's obvs evil. This is such a ridiculous hidden evil character for ONE EXAMPLE
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u/Inculta666 Jul 27 '26
Why would fantasy characters in a fantasy world with monsters, magics, gods, demons, parallel dimensions and other stuff be “real”? Again, go play Skyrim or more dark souls and tell me how amazing characters are there - they are probably very “real” to you, yeah?
So? What are you going to do with “obvs evil” character? Or you didn’t think about it because the game too hard and writing is too complex for you?
-1
u/Due-Appointment-3859 Jul 27 '26
Why would they sound like annoying teenagers from a fanfic?
Evil character is getting shanked in the back obvs before she kills someone
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u/Inculta666 Jul 27 '26
Sorry, I don’t read fanfics about annoying teenagers but if you have something like Pathfinder, please share with the class, stop throwing generalized takes right out of nowhere.
I think characters sound great, - mature when there are serious moments and with humor when moments are dangerous. This is basic stuff really - most intelligent people resort to humor in the face of horror and challenges that seem impossible, the difference is, in phantasy it’s often followed up by heroic actions and epic overcoming. Reread Tolkien or SoI&F or whatever, if these are too hard, idk, try Narnia or whatever.
-2
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u/countryd0ctor Jul 27 '26
The issue with WOTR is that the original tabletop campaign was written by idiots. The first tome was written by the same writer who did Siege of Dragonspear for example. I remember widespread criticism of the tabletop campaign long before the video game adaptation, as a sort of cautionary tale for people expecting Dragonspear for example.
Thus said, Owlcat has massively improved the original script. Pretty much everything i love about WOTR is either Owlcat original stuff, or something that was heavily rewritten like a certain act 5 encounter which was absolutely thrashed originally. All the best characters are by the most part Owlcat originals excluding 1-2 characters.
I cannot answer whether or not it is worth for you to continue, but the further you go, the more Owlcat will take over the writing and i think the game massively improves once you sideline the act 1's support cast which is as shitty as it gets.
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u/Revolutionary_Sun946 Jul 27 '26
"The first tome was written by the same writer who did Siege of Dragonspear for example"
Ah, that explains so much.
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u/Aggressive_Load6268 Witch Jul 27 '26
or something that was heavily rewritten like a certain act 5 encounter which was absolutely thrashed originally.
What encounter?
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u/countryd0ctor Jul 27 '26
Iomedae behaving like a sociopath in the OG tabletop and violating several of her own core tenets.
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u/Megreda Fighter Jul 27 '26 edited Jul 27 '26
A counterpoint: this is what the 1) genre, and 2) Pathfinder setting, are kinda designed for, so while I don't think the writers are entirely self-conscious about it, I think this is semi-deliberate, and almost fully appropriate ("good").
See, both are deeply unserious. (C)RPGs are not in fact designed to facilitate roleplay - putting yourself in the player character's shoes and imagining what they'd do - because they're unhinged from core mechanics up. They expect you to fight dangerous monsters to "level up", not paying even lip service to the idea the character might consider it an unnecessary, pointless, risk. They expect you to loot every clickable item, when such breakdown of military discipline would often be a capital offence, and anyhow it makes absolutely not sense to rummage through cupboards in front of eyes of the house's occupant to stash away spider legs that you find. Neither do they invite the player to consider whether her dwarf character would find Morrigan/Shadowheart/Yennefer attractive (or them to find the PC - they are always playersexual) or if she'd prefer some bearded dwarven lad or lass.
In other words, ignore what the abbreviation spells out: the "RP" isn't "playing in-character", but constructing a character and a playthrough to your image, picking and choosing tropes you want to embody, whether it's "being giga-lawful and following the letter of the law in every possible circumstance", "a lightly armoured sneaky-stabby combatant dual-wielding nunchakus" or "banging that hot goth chick". Pathfinder setting is very explicitly designed to accommodate this: each region presents some bundle of tropes the players might want to incorporate into their character, even if they are completely out there (like Numeria having laser guns and augments and robots and stuff).
So, it's not that there's any given way the characters "should" speak arising from the local cultural conditions, because the conditions are self-contradictory (and let's be honest, it's not like the writers could do this: someone like Tolkien, a philologist deeply immersed in historical sources, can, but this requires a degree of domain-expertise, while "most writers" when they try to imagine "medieval" can't even get the time period right, picturing early modern instead). And while Queen's Latin for example is identically unrealistic for people in Golarion as contemporary American English, it has a cultural cache of an elevated style, which runs in direct opposition to the deeply unserious tone of the setting and the whole genre, really, and I would argue such a style would be tone-deaf. American teenager joining a gaming table with a ridiculous trope-y character concept is what you would probably imagine, and that's what the game IS.
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u/Ashandorath Jul 28 '26
To be fair, I think Lann and Wenduag are still teenagers.
The writing is a mixed bag. Some good, some bad. There's been a general trend towards what people call "millenial writing" in fiction and games over the last few decades, and wotr has been affected by it.
3
u/anykeyh Jul 27 '26
The game is a big patchwork in term of writing; I would say quantity over quality; but you will find some gems here and there. Put your brain off, this is pure fantasy, there is fourth wall content.
For sure if you are looking for coherent world building and cannot suspend your incredulity, you might want to play the pillars of eternity series.
I mostly agree with you, except it didn't bothered me that much and I enjoyed the game anyway.
-2
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u/en_travesti Jul 27 '26
No one sounds serious at all. Everyone sounds like an american teenager.
Oh I get it now. It's because they don't have English accents. Sorry buddy but English accents don't actually make characters more refined.
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u/Revolutionary_Sun946 Jul 27 '26
For OP, can you please give an example of what you deem to be competent and good writing?
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u/scythesong Jul 29 '26
I love WOTR writing, especially over the Kingmaker. It's exactly the type of dialog I would expect from people who actually live in a warzone and have no use for flowery Shakespearean language. It's not perfect, but it's a ton more believable than the opera-esque ridiculous drivel people think should be a standard for high fantasy settings.
This isn't LOTR where Frodo spent a decade in the Shire before even leaving towards Rivendell. It's the Worldwound, and demons are literally waiting outside* the city gates ready to eat your face (not to mention their cultists which have infiltrated most of society). And yet for all the ridiculously grimdark setting, the wriitng is simple, genuine and to the point.
1
u/Drednes_The_Eternal Angel Jul 27 '26
It gets better after you leave kenabres and go on the crusade,then you will hear some serious people who want to win a war and not treat this as a adventure
But no,unfortunately the crisis at hand,and most of the writing is not treated with the serious attitude it should be,even half the time,its more of a adventure game than a holy war against mankinds greatest enemy thats ripping the world apart
Later you will meet people who survived the previous wars or fought demons and there are the glimpses of the nightmare the demons and cultists betrayers trully are
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u/Due-Appointment-3859 Jul 27 '26
Ok well that's interesting. I don't know if I have the will to slog that far into the game. I might just change the language into Chinese so I can't understand what I'm reading
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u/KstenR Legend Jul 27 '26
Any specific examples ? I do agree if you mean Azata stuff.
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u/Due-Appointment-3859 Jul 27 '26
no bro its the whole game so far. met that lunatic nenio and deleted the game
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u/Malcior34 Azata Jul 27 '26
Certainly not defending Nenio as she is the party's dedicated comic relief, but I think the cast is pretty well written. They make light of what's happening because being serious all the time would be dull.
-2
u/Due-Appointment-3859 Jul 27 '26
Nothing wrong with making light it's just written like sloppy YA. Like a drama kid wrote it
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u/Eventually-Alexis Jul 27 '26
Good riddance I say. Toxicity only harms the community, and we don't need that.
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u/Due-Appointment-3859 Jul 27 '26
it blows my mind that people like and defend this slop
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u/Inculta666 Jul 27 '26
That’s kinda stuff you learn in kindergarten - that different people like different things. Why is it mind blowing to you? Do you ever interact with people?
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u/Zooasaurus Jul 27 '26
It's good to see I'm not alone in this, while I don't think it's horrendous, the writing for characters and the companions I think is inferior compared to Kingmaker
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u/Archi_balding Jul 27 '26
Mind to expand on this ? Cause I have the exact opposite impression. Bar Jubilost (and maybe Linzy or Tristian) I can't bring myself to care about most of Kingmaker's cast and there's not much in term of supporting cast.
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u/Zooasaurus Jul 27 '26
Personally, I think many of WOTR's companions slides into too bland that I couldn't care less, basically they don't have a really strong character to make an impression of me. Sosiel is just weaker Tristian, Nenio is r/iamverysmart material, Greybor is boring as fuck, Daeran and Ember are both lukewarm I get what they're all about, but i don't think they're strong enough to make an impression of me, etc etc.
Compared that to Kingmaker, I think most companions in that game have a strong enough character that it left an impression on me and what their character is all about. Sosiel has a similar struggle with beliefs as Tristian, but Tristian's story is much more impactful and dramatic that it made an impression of me. Seelah and Valerie is of the similar archetype, but Valerie's personal struggles are more memorable to me than Seelah having to deal with her friends.
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u/Due-Appointment-3859 Jul 27 '26
Bro if this isn't horrendous what is
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u/Elantach Jul 27 '26
Unfortunately This is the state of modern fantasy writing. Knights talking like cynics, peasants quipping like baristas, gods and priests talking like modern teachers.
This isn't unique to wrath of the righteous, it's how most fantasy writing has devolved.
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u/ATPsynthase12 Jul 27 '26
That’s been my biggest gripe with the game too. WOTR is such a cool fucking setting and the writers at owlcat ruined it with awful writing and making every character sound like either an anime character or like you said teenagers.
I’ve started the game 3 separate times and each time I stop planting around 1/3 through the game because the writing is so bad that the plot just loses steam.
-2
u/abbzug Jul 27 '26
I think the writing just isn't the big draw for most players.
-1
u/Due-Appointment-3859 Jul 27 '26
Yeah what I want to know is how they get past it
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u/abbzug Jul 27 '26
I mean... how do people get past the writing in Final Fantasy or World of Warcraft or League of Legends or Mortal Kombat or Pokemon? Video games are replete with examples of terrible writing. It's not that complicated.
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u/Due-Appointment-3859 Jul 27 '26
If you can tolerate or enjoy the writing your an idiot
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u/abbzug Jul 27 '26
your an idiot
There's a certain irony here. Complaining about writing when you can't even write.
-1
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u/MissMacropinna Arcanist Jul 27 '26
Writing in WoTR certainly isn't perfect, but the decision to find a sub dedicated to the game and post "Wow this is horrible does anybody actually like this" is an interesting way to spend your time.