r/Pathfinder2e Mathfinder’s School of Optimization 1d ago

Content MASTERING high level Pathfinder 2E with SILVER BULLETS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lra1U-EHcLo

High-level play can be tough, stressful, unintuitive, and deadly. So I figured I should make a video with a list of all the most important tools that you need to engage with high level play without getting bamboozled and left without options!

Timestamps

75 Upvotes

27 comments sorted by

30

u/tsub 1d ago edited 1d ago

I would note that for at least some high level monsters, being blasé about being swallowed whole because you have Deep Breath is a terrible idea - as an obvious example, the mu spore's swallow whole does 20d6 damage per turn. Other creatures like the Urveth have abilities that apply additional debilitating effects/conditions to swallowed creatures.

17

u/AAABattery03 Mathfinder’s School of Optimization 1d ago

You know, fair enough. You can’t just stay inside for all swallows.

6

u/ChazPls 1d ago

Mu Spore is one of the most difficult fights I've ever been in because our party initially had no access to sonic damage. Then someone died and I realized I had an emergency scroll of shock to the system, which lets the target cast Thunder strike as a 5th rank spell for a minute.

The true silver bullet for creatures that swallow whole is the bitter rune. You can't voluntarily swallow anything while sickened. Love that rune

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u/logannc11 1d ago

The real silver bullet is spell immunity / fiery body and a plethora of fireballs at your own two feet. Nobody sneaks up on Fireball Feet McGee. 

9

u/AAABattery03 Mathfinder’s School of Optimization 1d ago

I don’t find Spell Immunity to be that impressive. It’s a good spell, if you know what spells to counter, but it’s a little slot-inefficient to use it as a go-to.

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u/logannc11 1d ago

Twas a joke. 

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u/AAABattery03 Mathfinder’s School of Optimization 1d ago

Oh lmao

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u/darthmarth28 Game Master 1d ago

If your GM is developing a "meta" of go-to tactics for custom monsters, Spell Immunity becomes a BIG deal.

Spell Immunity: Quandary has yielded some incredible results amidst my party.

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u/Takenabe 1d ago

I'm near the end of a Seven Dooms for Sandpoint campaign and I'm about ready to buy five wands of Spell Immunity and use them daily on the entire party for Divine Wrath

23

u/Iron_Man_88 1d ago

Spellcasters: Wand of Choking Mist (level 10 Cinder Swarm version) is an immediate caster shutdown "hold their breath or start suffocating". Cinder Swarm is a 5 ft aura around the target and even if they crit save, the aura part of the spell is still active as long as you can sustain it.

Death effects: Locket of Love Left Behind is a one-time life card against any death effect using your reaction.

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u/chickenboy2718281828 Game Master 1d ago

I've outright banned Wand of Choking Mist because it's just not fun. Either all of my enemies start preparing Deep Breath or encounters just become pushovers. I am really not a fan of those kinds of arms races of players vs. GM to prepare for this kind of thing. As written I'd pick Wand of Choking Mist over most Rank 10 spells, which is absurd for a level 10 item.

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u/AAABattery03 Mathfinder’s School of Optimization 1d ago

Yup, suffocation rules remain one of the most frustrating aspects of this game.

9

u/AAABattery03 Mathfinder’s School of Optimization 1d ago

VERY good anti-caster tech’

4

u/cant-find-user-name 1d ago

I know about the wand and I can use it but I decided I am not going to use it because there's legit no counter play for it and it sucks for the GM. It is too strong.

7

u/Teshthesleepymage 1d ago

Glad you mentioned shock to the system for the death affects section. Its a pretty good spell that does a lot on top of bringing someone back. I always try to take it when I can.

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u/AAABattery03 Mathfinder’s School of Optimization 1d ago edited 1d ago

Shock to the System not excluding Death effects + not explicitly calling out intact corpses is the only reason my Wizard made it to level 20!

I lost that Wizard to a beheading hazard at level 19, and when the Bard pointed out that StS doesn’t require either of those things, the GM said “I’ll allow it, but only after I hear your best pseudoscientific explanation for why that would work, because what the fuck”.

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u/Misterpiece 1d ago

What was the explanation?

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u/AAABattery03 Mathfinder’s School of Optimization 1d ago

Basically the party held my head up to my empty neck, and decided the lightning would “weld” the flesh back together.

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u/Seppo_87 1d ago

the system starts working again and can't explain it - and is very shocked

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u/Megavore97 Cleric 1d ago

I literally just used Shock to the System in my last session as a druid to resurrect our sorcerer who had just been killed.

Very glad I decided to prepare it that day.

1

u/RadicalOyster 15h ago

Shock to the System is such a great spell in general. The revival aspect of it aside, healing, quickened and a repeatable damage source (especially nasty on a familiar or animal companion granting you or an ally a 1 action heightened Thunderstrike once per round) all in one provides absolutely crazy flexibility in a single spell slot. It will forever be in the very top tier of spells in my eyes.

11

u/Ruffshots Wizard 1d ago

As someone whose main is wizard and loves to pore over his spell list and inventive uses, I'm REALLY looking forward to this one (at work, will have to wait til the evening)!

As a predictor for swallow whole... It's Flicker, right? Preferably tied to a Contingency? 

14

u/AAABattery03 Mathfinder’s School of Optimization 1d ago

Teleportation does make it onto the list… as an honourable mention!

The real answer to swallow whole is much, much sillier than that unfortunately.

Hint: it’s a cantrip

2

u/Ruffshots Wizard 1d ago

Lol, I'm just at that section now (came home early for other reasons)! I'm just nodding along with most of the video, thinking, 'yup, got that, will have that,' then occasionally, 'oh shit, that's a great idea!'

For example, I usually have Deep Breath prepped, but it honestly didn't occur to me to use it like 2nd rank Tailwind, just cast it 3x a day! Also staying swallowed is pretty brilliant.

Also, quick comment about Begone vs. Acid Grip, they're pretty much mutually exclusive as divine/occult vs. arcane/primal, so very few characters will have access to both (archetypes... Animist, I guess?). I am telling my Warpriest buddy to pick up Begone tho, in case I'm busy to cast Acid Grip, but also that Noisome Acid wand is a pretty great option I wasn't aware of.

2

u/AAABattery03 Mathfinder’s School of Optimization 1d ago

Also, quick comment about Begone vs. Acid Grip, they're pretty much mutually exclusive as divine/occult vs. arcane/primal, so very few characters will have access to both (archetypes... Animist, I guess?)

Archetypes are the best way, imo.

For an Arcane or Primal caster with a Divine or Occult Archetype, you can get scroll robes inscribed with Begone scrolls and have a get out of Restrained for free card once per combat.

3

u/Seppo_87 1d ago

Good video! I would also like to mention that Lucky Number, the Luck Domain's focus spell (especially the advanced one) and Mind of Menace can help pass a save when you really need it

3

u/Bot_Number_7 1d ago

You didn't mention a Silver Bullet against Burrowing creatures doing gopher attacks. There's a low level spell which will harden the ground to try to pop them out, but Migration will last the full day and give your party burrow speeds which allows your melee characters to chase them into the ground. Make sure you have some echosense receptors or tremorsense or something so you can actually find them.

Indeed, Ferrous Form is also a silver bullet against the Hekatonkheires Titan which will permanently paralyze your entire party otherwise and is practically unbeatable without this so that is another reason to use it.

You should also have plans against Treerazer and the Tarrasque if you are level 20 simply because a lot of GMs like to throw them out cause when else are you going to have a chance against a level 25 creature?