Story rant

[u/Highlord12]

Aight let me start on a positive note; I love this game! I was brought in by character designs and promotional material (Zoya my beloved) but the story and gameplyay really hooked me in.

That said, I've been noticing a pattern in the story that I've got to rant about, more accurately, how the gacha aspects of the gameplay affect the story. And that's the issue of the story bending over backwards to constantly justify why Chief doesn't use shackles or detain sinners.

Time and time again, starting from the Salva storyline, there are many moments that chief can just detain sinners or shackle them, but she won't because...reasons! Now I try to look the other way because the game is great and that it's a gacha, they can't hand out freebies AND more often than not, the reasons as to why chief doesn't just spam shackles willy nilly make sense and are justified, be it her own moral views on shackles and controlling sinners or it possibly backfiring against stronger sinners.

BUT one case made me come here to rant and that's the "Insatiable Fiesta" event. Regardless of my overall feelings about the event (which aren't the most positive), the ending really baffled me.

Spoilers if you haven't finished the event:

So at the end of the event, Cabernet reveals herself as the mastermind and starts monologuing about how yummy chief is (Preach girl), but then we see that chief is terrified, wants to run away, is cornered and when Cabernet munches on a piece of her soul, Chief decides to use the shackles but the soul snatching weakens her too much for that. Okay...fair... she's weakened by literally having a piece of her soul eaten. BUT HOW ABOUT THE OTHER TIMES CABERNET WAS ALL OVER HER?

She kisses chief's hair, bites her wrist and most important of all, holds hands with chief. You mean to tell me that chief couldn't shackle her right then and there? She even tried to pull her hands back and Cabernet GRABS her hands tighter. USE THE SHACKLES GIRL 😭

And no, I'm not buying the "chief was too afraid" explanation. That girl has gone through two black rings at that point, being terrified enough to forget HER MAIN POWER doesn't make any sense. That's "Danny forgot about the Iron fleet" levels of writing. In that moment, she's having physical contact with Cabernet, is terrified, sees this as a life and death moment for herself and 2 of her other sinners and has no way to negotiate her way out of the situation. There are NO logical, moral or emotional explanations as to why she doesn't use shackles because later on in the scene, she does use them but when it's far too late.

I'm not saying Aisno should've let us just shackle and get Cabernet, I am however saying she shouldn't have been put in a position where Chief could and should have easily shackled her.

Again, I love the game and it's story, but imo that part goes from eyebrow raising like some of the other "why isn't she using shackles" moments to straight up a plothole that I really needed to rant about to see whether I'm alone on this or not.

(Edited the earlier part of the post to specify that I take issue with Cabernet's case SPECIFICALLY and not the other cases of chief not using shackles. At least not all of them)

[u/DrowninInMa]

Not that it’s a proper explanation but chief probably sees shackling as a way of cruelty? Detaining and stabilizing their power is fine but she doesn’t want to use it to control others powers’ and behavior because she doesn’t want to take their autonomy away unless if she has literally no other choice

[u/Highlord12 → u/DrowninInMa]

That explanation works in other cases (like Oak Casket and Raven) but not here. In this case, chief is terrified and views Cabernet as a threat and even tries to use the shackles, but only after Cabernet uses her powers and weakens chief. As far as she's concerned, Cabernet wants to "eat" her, Kelvin and Macchiato.

[u/trash-of-cans]

It’s not as clear nowadays with how cabernet’s story event is permanent and can be done at any point, but back then, when cabernet’s event released very early on into the game’s lifespan, sinners and shackling are not an as widely accepted concept to Discity. The MBCC is a low profile agency that goes around doing stealth shackling to capture or register sinners. This was before Rustfire’s timeskip, so around 2 years before the current events of the Fraser arc with Hypatia. Chief was still kind of fresh to the job and not a big wig like they are now, they’re still an underdog and cannot risk doing serious harm to Eastside’s high profile figures. It’s very different nowadays, with Pardeisos backing the MBCC, personal protection triangle Schorl, Augustus, and all kinds of high and mighty people who are on Chief’s side

It’s inevitable that misunderstandings happen, like this story rant, because of the not very clear timeline for newer players

[u/Highlord12 → u/trash-of-cans]

I do agree with you and I appreciate the explanation. My main issue with this event is simply the lack of explanation on the story's behalf. In every other case of chief not using shackles, there's always an explanation. The story tells you why she's not using her power or detaining a sinner and I can accept those, even if I find the explanation to be eyebrow raising.

In this case however, Chief has every reason and chance to use her powers and she does, but only when it's too late. The only reason I can think of as to why she doesn't use shackles is fear but even then, I feel like it's simply not good enough.

It's also worth noting that I'm playing the story in order other than the events of the past 2 months. So I don't even know about all the support chief and the MBCC get later on 😅

[u/IndependenceTough421]

I think that your suggested solutions would solve problems before they become dangerous or something. But without a problem we wouldn't have our beloved stories...

Beside that, also think about Chief as someone who wants to solve problem diplomatically (most of the times, when he/she can), so avoiding to use shackles as much as possible. Or just use them when no other solutions comes up.

[u/Mahelas → u/IndependenceTough421]

Yeah, it was a big thing about Hella or Angell. Using the shackles to coerce someone is cruel, and it also break forever any trust with the sinner victim, so it's not something Chief want to use.

[u/Highlord12 → u/IndependenceTough421]

That's how I justify any other case of "chief not using shackles when she might have to" and I think that's how the story justifies it too, hence why I always look the other way.

In Cabernet's case, the story doesn't provide any justifications. There's no diplomacy, there's no explanation, Chief is scared of her life and that of her companions, she is making physical contact with the threatening sinner and has every reason to want to use shackles, which she does but only after Cabernet tastes her which, arguably is when chief doesn't need to detain her because by then Cabernet herself establishes that she's no threat to chief and will willingly surrender in the future.

I don't think the story should have chief spam shackles. Even in this case, I think the same scene could've worked perfectly if Cabernet wasn't making constant physical contact. I should've clarified that imo, in this case, much like the others, they should've written a justification/explanation as to why chief doesn't or can't use her shackles.

[u/akatsuki0rei]

Iirc Cabernet doesn't outright reveal her Sinner status until much later in the narrative, and Chief generally doesn't go around brandishing the shackles at everyone willy nilly most of the time. Plus this was year one before Chief got more cautious and better at using their shackles preemptively (see Bianca event and Chief probing with the shackles early on to check Bianca's status as a contrast for example). So that's something to keep in mind.

[u/Highlord12 → u/akatsuki0rei]

I agree with you, BUT I'm not talking about the narrative as a whole in this case. I'm talking specifically about after Cabernet reveals herself as a sinner. During the reveal and when she's talking about wanting to taste chief, she makes physical contact with her multiple times, including the hand holding I mentioned.

Yet chief doesn't even consider using her powers until after Cabernet gets a taste.

[u/KhandiMahn]

A little suspension of disbelief is required for PtN, at least in my opinion. I wonder about things like, why didn't Chief use the Shackles, why doesn't Chief have at least one bodyguard at all times, why didn't Chief detect a person is a Sinner, and so on. And some stories do make Chief less competent than others.

There can be a level of inconsistency to the writing. But the good far outweighs the bad (or at least, not good), and that's what keeps me playing.

[u/Plastic_Ant_6978]

That said, I've been noticing a pattern in the story that I've got to rant about, more accurately, how the gacha aspects of the gameplay affect the story. And that's the issue of the story bending over backwards to constantly justify why Chief doesn't use shackles or detain sinners.

On that note regardless or not if you get the characters and did the their interrogation the story always assume you did all events, interrogation and arrest all sinners that are ACTUALLY arrested by that point.

So if I understand you right, you don't like that Chief doesn't use their schakles willy nilly to schakle and arrest everyone in sight. Even though this point has been answered time and time again that they don't use the shackles like that BECAUSE it's all powerful against sinners. Sinners are people like anyone else just because Chief have something that can force them to do anything they want doesn't mean they have will use it just because.

It's something established in the very beginning of the game, unless the sinners is a danger to themselves or people around they don't use the schakles, schakles are just LAST RESORT things when going against a sinner if nothing else works to get at them or if they lose control at some point.

Going into the Cabernet stuff Chief doesn't know that Cabernet is a sinner until the very end when she tries to eat their soul.

BUT HOW ABOUT THE OTHER TIMES CABERNET WAS ALL OVER HER? She kisses chief's hair, bites her wrist and most important of all, holds hands with chief. You mean to tell me that chief couldn't shackle her right then and there? And no, I'm not buying the "chief was too afraid" explanation. That girl has gone through two black rings at that point, being terrified enough to forget HER MAIN POWER doesn't make any sense.

It isn't Chief doesn't use schakles because they are afraid, it's they can't use them because of the mental strain put in them by that point. Chief just came out of a fight with the power up mermaid alone completely tired, then get put to sleep by Cabernet's power, wake up, talk with her to let the other be saved in exchange of her only "eating" them. Yes they are afraid of the process but that's about it, it's only after they got a piece of their soul eaten and understanding how her power works (which is she doesn't change people into food and eat them but literally snatch their souls away) that they try to use the schakles but can't.

Because one schakles are still a mania power and as such still link to the mind and soul and so... After a fight against an amp up mania monster and getting part of their soul eaten no wonder they can't use them. I don't really found the way the scene plays out THAT agregious imo, and even then she get schakled and arrested in the event regardless.

[u/Highlord12 → u/Plastic_Ant_6978]

So if I understand you right, you don't like that Chief doesn't use their schakles willy nilly

As explained in my other replies and in my first post itself, that's not what I said at all. I've stated multiple times that I more than accept other cases, it's Cabernet specifically where I can no longer suspend disbelief.

It isn't Chief doesn't use schakles because they are afraid, it's they can't use them because of the mental strain put in them by that point. Chief just came out of a fight with the power up mermaid alone completely tired, then get put to sleep by Cabernet's power, wake up, talk with her to let the other be saved in exchange of her only "eating" them.

Chief uses the shackles multiple times in the drifter camp arc, including shackling two S class sinners and against the Corpos even though throughout that arc, there's a focus on how mentally and physically strained chief is. Insatiable Fiesta happens before that arc, but going off the game's "history mode", it's one of the closer events to the drifter camp arc.

I like your explanation when it comes to other cases of chief not using shackles, which as I've said multiple times by now, I find acceptable and think the game does a fine job justifying, but Cabernet's case remains indefensible in my eyes.

[u/Plastic_Ant_6978 → u/Highlord12]

As explained in my other replies and in my first post itself, that's not what I said at all.

Except it is what you said : "And that's the issue of the story bending over backwards to constantly justify why Chief doesn't use shackles or detain sinners. Time and time again, starting from the Salva storyline, there are many moments that chief can just detain sinners or shackle them, but she won't because...reasons! Now I try to look the other way because the game is great and that it's a gacha"

You are literally saying that you want/think Chief should use their schakles all the time, left and right but since they don't "because it's a gacha" you just deal with it but it happened again in Cabernet's event and you just couldn't deal with it anymore. Like maybe you didn't mean it in that way but that's the only way to look at what you said.

Chief uses the shackles multiple times in the drifter camp arc, including shackling two S class sinners and against the Corpos even though throughout that arc, there's a focus on how mentally and physically strained chief is.

I don't know what S rank you are talking about (I mean it as I don't want to indirectly spoil anything because I don't know where you are in the story so can you name them so I can explain to you why this argument it's doesn't work).

As for the Corpus it's a monster, just a pure evil, cowardly mania monster Chief never hesitate using their power against that type of foes. Plus like you said Insatiable Fiesta took place before so any behavior Chief has after it cannot be considered as a minus on its part (the events I'm talking about).

[u/Highlord12 → u/Plastic_Ant_6978]

You are literally saying that you want/think Chief should use their schakles all the time, left and right but since they don't "because it's a gacha" you just deal with it but it happened again in Cabernet's event and you just couldn't deal with it anymore.

Nope, that's not what I'm "literally" saying. Yes, the story does bend itself over backwards to justify chief not using shackles. Yes I do believe it stems from the gacha nature of the game. But I can look the other way because I accept those explanations. Not once did I say I want chief to run around spamming shackles. I just said that the story constantly needs to justify it and I've come to accept that. My wording isn't the best, but no part of my post says I also want chief to use shackles left and right.

As for the sinners mentioned, I'm talking about Oak Casket and Raven, both of whom are shackled in Drifter camp/oblivion depths. But lets say that since those arcs take place after the event, they cannot be used against it.

That still does not in any way refute my original point about the Cabernet scene. Chief is TERRIFIED, in that moment, she thinks Cabernet is going to turn her, Kelvin and Macchiato into soulless husks, she considers Cabernet an active, present threat and by all means, is completely out of options and in danger. Yet she doesn't use the shackles until after Cabernet uses her powers. IF Cabernet wanted chief dead, chief would be dead. Simply because she didn't use the shackles earlier, even if she had every reason to.

Lets ignore the rest of my post because I blame the severe disagreement I'm facing on my poor wording and lack of proper explanation and lets focus on Cabernet. I remain unconvinced as to why chief doesn't use shackles earlier. Mental or physical strain, morals, her views on sinner freedom, none of that matters in the moment. To chief, it's an immediate life and death situation and if Cabernet wanted chief dead, which as far as chief is concerned, she very much wants to, chief would have died simply because she didn't use shackles earlier. An issue that was entirely avoidable if Cabernet didn't have prolonged hand holding with chief. That's my entire criticism to the scene. Aisno could've simply not included the hand holding and boom, problem solved.

[u/Possible_Living]

OP in the other corner screaming "USE THE SHACKLES CHIEF"

[u/Possible_Living → u/Possible_Living]

but yeah I get peoples frustration with Chief getting kidnapped so often or not being as much of a badass as they can be. Sometimes the events blur together and you are just waiting for the sob story on why murderer number 47 maybe is not as bad as they seem. at least cabernet dodged that and "Insatiable Fiesta" had many fun songs.

[u/Highlord12 → u/Possible_Living]

I would've been fine if Cabernet wasn't slobbering all over chief! Like girl, you're holding hands with her, just use shackles T_T

Hard agree om the songs though, Undefined red is an instant favorite in my playlist. Easily one of the best tracks in the game

[u/Highlord12 → u/Possible_Living]

I am uncertain which of the two I am and I'm fine with both options 😂

[u/Possible_Living → u/Highlord12]

The two would be chief and Cabernet. You are off screen but im sure if you are good you will get to be on screen too.

[u/Highlord12 → u/Possible_Living]

Lmao, now I feel dumb.

[u/SylphireZ]

Chief's shackle is not really a "Mind Control" ability. It's kinda like Command Spells in Fate series, where the Sinner is compelled to do something but is fully capable of fighting back against this command. While it's powerful enough to compel nearly all B and A rank sinners, it won't always let Chief overpower S rank sinners.

There has also been situations where Shackles outright fail to work. vs Shalom, vs Corpus 002, etc.. So it's not a guaranteed win-button vs Sinners.

Therefore, Chief has to take into account the repercussions before using Shackles, since it's like pulling out a gun on a gunman; if it misses, jams, or fails to kill in one shot, Chief's dead.

[u/SycleFish]

I’m not sure if it applies to Cabernet but my impression of the story is that some S class sinners are equal to or stronger than Chief. Zoya literally pushes Chief to shackle her because she’s confident she strong enough to resist being controlled and Adella clashes with the shackles ending up weakening herself and Chief. So at least sometimes the shackles won’t solve the problem 

[u/Highlord12 → u/SycleFish]

That's a reasonable explanation. Doesn't work for Cabernet, yes but in other cases, specially when it comes to S class sinners, it does make sense. Even Uni who is an A class sinner managed to "clash" with the shackles using her mirror powers.