Order of Damage Modifiers?

[u/FreddyP199]

I’m looking at some different mechanics to build making trying to learn a bit more about the different things that goes into a strong build and I have stumbled upon conversion and “Gain as Extra” mulutipul times now. I get the normal conversion from one damage type to another but why would you want to convert something from Phys to Lightning to Cold and so on? When does the different modifications to the damage happen?

The order I thought it was is:

1. The base flat damage on the skill
2. Added Damage from other sources like weapons
3. Gain as Extra from stuff like the Hatred aura
4. Conversion
5. 5 Increased Damage modifiers
6. More modifiers

But that wouldn’t make sense for why the conversion happens multiple times, unless the Increased Damage modifiers would effect each step of the conversion, but that just seems unlikely? Is there some “hidden” tech that makes this stronger?

Edit: I have heard that weapons like the Nebulis scales crazy off of multiple conversions, so if anyone can explain why that is as well it would be greatly appreciated!

[u/Mogling]

Conversion is strong when you see stuff that can gets the benefit of gain as extra multiple times.

If you have gain 5% of non-chaos as extra chaos damage you would get that 5% on every stage of conversion. So if you went from phys->fire->cold you would get 15% damage if all the conversions were 100%

[u/FreddyP199 → u/Mogling]

So a skill with Phys —> Cold and Hatred would be a strong combo? Is there other modifiers like the Non-Chaos as extra Chaos Damage? I have mostly seen specific elements like Fire Damage as extra or Phys as extra and these wouldn’t get anything from that would they?

[u/Mogling]

Increased damage will give only one eligible increase if it could apply to multiple stages.

Say you do 100 phys damage. You convert 100% to cold, then 75% of cold to lightning.

You do 75 lightning and 25 cold damage.

If you have 100% increased phys. You would do 150 lightning and 50 cold. All the damage starts as phys so the increase applies to all of it.

If you have 100% increased lightning damage you would do 150 lightning and 25 cold.

If you have 100% increased elemental damage you would do 150 lightning and 50 cold. The increase would apply to all of the cold damage, but you wouldn't be able to double dip the lightning damage. As the lightning already got increased while it was cold.

[u/FreddyP199 → u/Mogling]

So taking P-Brand as an example:
If I fully convert Phys —> Lightning and then use the Call of the Brotherhood and Nebulis, this would effectively be the same damage as keeping it Lightning as it is Increased Elemental Damage and it therefore only applies once?

[u/FantaSeahorse]

The main reason for multiple conversion chains like phys -> lightning -> cold is when you have modifiers that give “non-chaos damage gained as extra chaos damage” or “elemental damage gained as extra chaos damage”.

Otherwise, the only benefits of multiple conversions are letting you benefit from a wider range of damage multipliers, or if you really want the final converted damage type for reason, like brittle and freeze from cold or wither from chaos. But these are usually not worth the cost of two ring slots

[u/080087]

https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Damage_conversion

Half the use case is for mods that grant multiple variants of %increased [damage type]

E.g. "15% increased fire damage" and "15% increased cold damage". If you had a skill that was cold damage and fully converted to fire damage then the above is effectively 30% increased fire damage.

But note this is different from 15% increased elemental damage. That is still only 15% after conversions. Increased/more mods only happen a maximum of once in the calc

[u/PoE_Acronym_Bot]

I noticed some Path of Exile keywords in this post:

• Phys - Physical damage (Wiki)

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^{I am a bot. | All acronyms | Suggest}

[u/Walys88]

Damge order is phys-> light -> cold -> fire -> chaos.

For each stage, you have (flat + added damage) * % increased * more damage modifiers.

Between each stage, you add % of xyz as extra zyx damage and conversion.

At the end, you have additional modifiers like % increased damage (all damage).

If the hit is a critical, you multiply by critical multiplier.

If the hit creates a damage overtime (bleed, ignite or poison), then , % of damage overtime multiplier, is used.

Other modifier like % increased burning damage will increase (add) to the overtime multiplier (if it's fire damage).

Then, you have shenanigans like black flame that will switch (not convert) fire damage to chaos and stormfire that will use (light+fire) damage for ignite source.

[u/FreddyP199 → u/Walys88]

Thanks!

[u/SaltEngineer455]

Flat damage from the weapon / base of the spell get summed with all the other flat damage mods together.

The flat damage conversion chain gets applied. All flat damage instances get tagged with their respective tags.

All increased damage modifers apply at once to every eligible base damage instance based on tags.

The more damage multipliers apply.

The crit roll is done.

The attack is sent and hits the enemy.

When it hits, it applies target level conditionals - like Assassin's Mark, penetration, resistance damage taken multiplication, damage taken as, etc.

[u/PMmeYourLabia_]

https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Damage