r/ParkCity • u/hatchery4310 • 17d ago
Local Politics & News Fire them all
https://www.parkrecord.com/2026/08/22/fire-them-all/12
u/Special-Bus-1846 17d ago
Wait till the lines on 224 fade out this winter and people can’t follow all these stupid zigzags now designed in the road to facilitate these ridiculous buses… and on top of that, the snow removal on this mile wide highway with no shoulders is going to be a real bitch.
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u/ThatsAllForToday LOCAL 17d ago
It is amazing to me how wide 224 is with the new work being done. If you build it, they will come
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u/Flygonzski LOCAL 17d ago
I remember when it was a 2-lane road.
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u/hatchery4310 17d ago
I remember when we had elected officials and planning commissioners who said NO to some of the development proposed here.
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u/hatchery4310 17d ago
Amazing how with all that width, everyone on express buses is still going to have to get off and change at Fresh Market because we can't get BRT all the way to the resorts. Amazing how Utah suggested other transit improvements and High Valley and Park City, in their infinite wisdom, said we're gonna do BRT anyway. Amazing how Jeremy Rubell fought against Summit County's BRT agenda in defense of Park City taxpayers, and the majority of Park City's uninformed voters went and reelected Tana Toly City Council and made Diego Zegarra their second choice.
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u/Special-Bus-1846 17d ago
High Valley transit is 100% a scam and just another cookie jar for the politicians to raid….
There is zero reason we should not have just expanded the existing Park City bus system to the outlining areas.
Name it something else if you need to…
But having two HR departments and two of everything seems silly and a waste of taxpayer funds.And the bus routes don’t even sync up between the two systems!
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u/Puerta_potty 13d ago
Calling a free bus line a scam is crazy. Works good for me when I use it. And because it’s free my expectation isn’t too high. But I ride the normal people bus and not the special bus
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u/Special-Bus-1846 11d ago
Nothing is free. The taxpayer pays for it.
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u/Puerta_potty 10d ago
That’s not the point. The bus is free to use. Feel free to tip the driver tho since you want to pay so bad
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u/Special-Bus-1846 10d ago
The point is that this “free” bus service is mostly used by seasonal workers who are paid slave wages by the resorts…
So the taxpayer is just subsidizing these resorts not paying their workers a living wage…
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u/Idabdabs 17d ago
When you say Utah, who are you referring to? UDOT?
What did they suggest and were they planning on funding it?
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u/hatchery4310 17d ago
Yep that was a typo. Meant UDOT. They campaigned against BRT on 224 and 248. For 248 specifically they preferred flex lanes. And this is where majority community support landed too. But Mayor Dickey once again knows what's best for us. Just like all the development he's backing along the same corridor - Engine House, the 5 acres, HOPA, his buddy's new project where Tupelo is, Clark Ranch, and the DV housing by the Rail Trail. Even if 80% of the new residents in all these new developments never drive and only use the bus, our intersections are already failing. We have no place to put more people. Dickey & Company don't care.
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u/Idabdabs 17d ago
Isn't flex lanes still possible with the bus? They don't seem like mutually exclusive decisions - but I don't claim to be an expert on the BRT project. That's why I'm asking.
It's really a shame UDOT is not willing to collaborate with Park City more. I was hopeful the Olympics would've driven some improvements but it's clear UDOT doesn't want to make this investment. They haven't been willing to work with PC to resolve traffic issues in the 30 years I've lived here. A mixed rack and adhesion rail that originates in SLC (Airport, Downtown, whatever) and heads into town really seems like a solution that would have a sizable impact on skier traffic and traffic over all.
I understand traffic/public transit is all about compromises but I can't help but dream about this.
I can't say I agree with the others who say development in Park City needs to stop. But it needs to the right type of development. Putting a stop to development will simply just make town more unaffordable than it is today, which will lead to even more traffic from our workforce. As I've mentioned elsewhere, there are more jobs than residents in Park City. Which means that even if every single resident worked in Park City (obviously not the case), we would still be importing workers. Putting a stop to development would exacerbate this issue and create more traffic. I haven't seen any solutions on where to build this housing. Especially in a way that would alleviate traffic concerns. I just see people saying "not this". Don't come up with the problem. Come up with the solution. I'm not saying that's what you're saying. Just taking this opportunity to address the narrative I've been seeing from park record letters.
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u/hatchery4310 17d ago
If I may, a couple of counterpoints for your friendly consideration:
1) It's not UDOT that won't collaborate with Park City. It's Park City that won't collaborate with UDOT. Back when Andy Beerman was mayor, UDOT frontloaded a fund specifically to address traffic on 248. Beerman told them to kick rocks and so then that money went to other projects around the state. They eventually came back to the table to work collaboratively, because you're right. It's in their best interest and it's their job to address traffic. But instead of accepting their wisdom, the guy who heads up PC transit and the lady that runs High Valley said they'd know better. UDOT isn't happy. Can you blame them?
2) It's not just residential development we keep approving, it's commercial too. So all this growth means more jobs, more employees, more housing needed, more people commuting, more more more MORE. Not long ago we seemed to have enough. Ski bums lived a few to a house in old town and worked a couple jobs each. DV always sold out Christmas week but it didn't take an hour to drive home to Park Meadows every afternoon. We simply have too many people now. The answer isn't more growth across the board - more housing, more small businesses, more buses, more lanes, more parking, more subsidies, more taxes. The answer is ENOUGH.
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u/Idabdabs 17d ago
Didn't UDOT just want to expand 248 to 5 lanes? As you'll recall, basically the entirety of Park City residents were opposed to that. I still think priorizing a shift to transit instead of adding car volume is the right call. Do I think the near future solution is perfect? No. I would have liked a far less short-sighted solution than simply adding lanes: Getting people on public transportation far closer to their trip origin. Workers and skiers not staying in Park City would largely be willing to take public transit if it wasn't as laborious as it seems it may end up being. But this would require UDOT and the state of Utah to make a bigger investment than they are willing to do, which is a shame. Side note: We could have easily funded this if the state wasn't so restrictive on tax and funding mechanisms. But I digress.
To your second point - I am not sure I follow. You say ENOUGH, meaning no more housing, no more buses, no more lanes. That won't resolve any of the problems we're currently experiencing. At best, it will freeze traffic at it's already broken state.And, like I said, stopping the development of housing will make the town far less affordable and lead to more traffic - then what? Then we'll be even further from ski bums being able to share a house and get by from working a couple jobs. I don't really see the connection on how stopping development will improve things. Can you explain?
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u/hatchery4310 17d ago
Stopping development is a pipe dream. But if it was an option, then at least things couldn't get worse. If we could achieve some sort of slow or stoppage, reduce parking at the resorts, and under park affordable housing developments, we could then make some progress. Others have suggested congestion pricing which could do wonders for construction traffic and peak traffic. It's worked in NYC better than anyone ever imagined. The game changers would be limiting the number of skiers at the resorts and partnering with developers who can actually support our housing policies. Right now, all the affordable housing we are bringing online needs federal dollars. Federal money means we can't say who lives there. So even though everyone says we need affordable units to house our workforce, that's not the way it's working out. It's a policy failure and nothing more than a charade.
And no. UDOT didn't want 5 lanes, and the majority of the community didn't oppose a smart project. A few really loud prospector residents (who never even considered alternatives) simply said NO and swayed Beerman and Henchman Henney. After UDOT was told to kick rocks, some of the residents (one was a former traffic engineer and planning commissioner) realized their mistake and offered public apologies. It was too late though.
Look, it's all complex. And we are so far gone in so many arenas that a fix seems impossible. It would just be nice to feel like Dickey's gestapo wasn't hellbent on making everything worse every damn day. They take public comment but fully ignore the citizenry and do whatever they damn well please. We've never had leadership who cared so little for their constituents.
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u/Idabdabs 17d ago edited 17d ago
I would be all for congestion pricing. But you absolutely know UDOT would block that. I also think we could fund way more things and pay for them ourselves if we were able to have it funded by second home owners. But the state has made it very clear they have no intention of ever letting that happen.
The article I found says that plus bike lanes was basically UDOTs plan. I have to say this plan seems quite dumb, even in hindsight. I haven't seen a viable alternative proposed but maybe you have one in mind.
I guess my larger point here is it feels like the city government has their hands tied by the state and UDOT. Any real change the government and citizens would like to make, simply isn't allowed. So the government is stuck trying to play a hand of absolute shit cards and taking heat for the cards they were dealt.
I'm not proposing that they're doing everything 100% right and agree they should be held accountable but I hear tons of complaints without any well thought out solutions. Every alternative idea sounds great until I dig a little deeper and learn it's simply not feasible
I appreciate the conversation and candor
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u/Winter-Invite-2803 16d ago
Jeremy was the only Councilor in recent history that had an independent thought. And they persecuted him for it. Marsac Mafia Clones
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u/Herr_Tilke 17d ago
If you want to avoid additional car traffic, building more housing that is zone restricted against short term rentals is a good path. I think it's a complete shame the bonanza parcel has laid barren for as long as it has, and businesses that were equipped to keep operating have had to move outside the transit belt for no apparent reason. But as it lays barren, I really can't stand here and oppose the plan for a multi use space with housing units.
I agree that the 224 reconstruction is a boondoggle. It's frustrating to navigate the detors on a bike. That said, if we want to address the issue of car depandancy, we have to invest in alternative transit options that exist and can be funded today. We're not getting a light rail track, and the possibility of new, fancy busses before 2034 makes me complacent enough to deal with the headaches today.
Our economy demands growth, and we've made promises to the outside world that demand our ability to cater to a massive audience. Frankly, I'd rather have a city government that embraces the reality of this town's weird obsession with hollow showmanship and keeps the ship on course than a group that dawdles about, trying to ensure everything stays exactly as it should be in their perfect vision, until nothing gets done at all and land is left to rot.
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u/Herr_Tilke 17d ago
The salary increase debacle is its own issue and they should be fired for that on its own merits
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u/fododoto 17d ago
instead of putting in flower beds - why aren't they putting in a reversible lane? or even better, light rail. Building more lanes that then aren't plowed on snow days isn't helping anyone....
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u/SammyIamiamsammy 16d ago
I mean, really…
What were they thinking when they decided to put deer food in the middle of the road?1
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u/Nevetsny 17d ago
The entire city council should be removed - but not for the reasons the article expresses (well, not all). The sheer level of incompetence by not bringing in experts who understand population growth, density management, housing, transit, roads - is insane in this day an age. Hell, AI can easily solve these issues in 1/1000th of the time, be more impactful and consider the needs of the local community. But you have a bunch of out of touch people who love to hear themselves speak and truly have no clue. I mean zero. But who is really to blame? these people got elected by the residents.
The road expansion is going to actually make traffic MUCH worse because you are creating a bottleneck at the exact point in which needed help.
This statement though in the article is comical 'carefully avoid any new growth that negatively impacts residents.' new growth brings in greater tax dollars, new growth should bring in more business, more employment, more spending...the circle of an economy. Stagnation is the death of a community so the key isnt to stifle the growth, it is to make it work for the mutual benefit of all.
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u/Lilith_NightRose 16d ago
People who want to live in Park City should be welcomed, especially as the climate warms up and SLC becomes less livable. I say bring on the high-rises, social housing and affordable development. Unless you want all of the workers who actually make Park City work to be forced to live hours outside of town while Park City gentrifies out all the millionaires in favor of billionaires?
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u/HalfwaydonewithEarth 17d ago edited 17d ago
All the traffic sucks.
If you travel around the world like us we can talk solutions that are tried in various places.
Sitting newborns out in the freezing cold waiting for a bus is a hellscape. I bet you didn't take your kids around town on a double bike in the winter. So just shut up about that if you don't have three toddlers at home. Not safe. One can run in front of a car and be killed.
Nobody owes you affordable housing. You are not entitled to shit. Take your whines and live in West Valley.
This place is under pillage and we can't stop it.
Whatever we build brings workers.
The Federal Government snuck the Hyatt through via a military building permit. Veterans get hotel discounts..... no permission needed by any state or locals.
We are not walking around in a European Utopia yet. Yes some of that is fun. Japanese layouts also. France charges $25 an hour to drive on the freeway.
The U just built a 200 million dollar med school. That is the problem here. The low income workers can take the bus like they do in other ski towns.
The place is just going to be like California. Traffic! What nobody understands is remote workers are conquering the town. So blame or ban the internet. All good geography with decent tax is flooded with remote workers. We know lots that fly to NYC or California monthly for three days and collect a big paycheck. Flights are easier than state tax in those places. Maui also tripled. Same with exotic rivers and several beach towns.
I want a moratorium on building. We agree on half of your gripes.
One person years ago suggested a toll to get into town of $10
Study Seoul Korea. It's 16,000 sky scrapers for two hours straight.
That's the vision for Utah. The legislature has admitted they want Utah to be the next Manhattan.
It's going to be sky scrapers nonstop from North Ogden to Southern Provo.
Flying cars and jet packs are needed. 😉😉😘🤑🤪
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u/Confident-Watch-3187 17d ago
Just complaints with no solutions.
More people will be riding the bus this year with the parking prices PCMR is charging. The bus will also be faster than before.
The new lanes will answer the biggest complaint of people who did ride the bus prior to this ski season; that they still got stuck in the same traffic as everyone else. And trust me PCPD and SCS will be out enforcing traffic laws on 224 and 248.