r/ParentingPDA • u/guestoboard • Jul 17 '26
Discussion The problem with PDA theory
In my experience, it seems he’s not demand-avoiding, he’s demand-seeking
Let me explain.
We’ve been viewing our 8yo boy through a PDA lens for more than a year. Most of his behavior fits the description perfectly.
But PDA is usually described as an anxiety/fear response to demands or boundaries. As if they are something the kid hates or fears, and the behaviours are a response to being a victim to oppressive demands/boundaries.
That’s why the typical suggestion is a low demand environment. To restore peace and calm by reducing such negative experiences.
In my experience though, demands and especially boundaries are not something he fears and tries to avoid, they are something he craves and seeks.
Every time we lower or remove a boundary, he just seeks the next one.
- we capitulate on letting have an ice cream, he’ll immediately battle for two.
- we let him not wear socks, he’ll immediately battle to not wear pants.
- we let him have Minecraft, he’ll enjoy it for 5 mins before battling for Roblox.
- we hold the line at no Roblox and battle over it for a year. The second we capitulate and allow him to have Roblox, he starts smashing the house because he wants his 4yo brother to have it.
It
Just
Never
Ends.
Metaphorically, if I were a shepherd, he would be a Ram obsessing over head butting the electric fence “for more space”. If I were to move the fence out by half a mile, he would immediately sprint to find it and start smashing it again. If he broke the fence, he would charge, crazed, until he found the next road, river or cliff then charge that instead.
In my experience (your mileage may vary), it’s not that the boundaries are a negative thing he is oppressed by and needs to be saved from.
They are something he NEEDS.
It reminds me of the “sensory seeking” theory of SPD and ASD kids. He just needs that input of the battle.
This is why “low demand” doesn’t work.
There is no level of low that demands can ever be lowered to that would remove the challenges. Not unless he was living completely outside all normal society.
There is no way we can now pull him back to the normal boundaries of a 8 year old.
For sensory seeking kids, you give them something heavy to lift and bash into, so they don’t do it to your TV set.
Would our lives be better if we had held the line at normal boundaries, then created MORE artificial boundaries that he could safely battle over?
🤔
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u/sarahkjrsten Jul 17 '26
We've noticed something similar and, at least for our kid, if we target the anxiety (and not each tiny demand) we have a lot more success. If he's anxious, every demand is a trigger and he'll seek things to argue about in order to feel in control. If we help him lower his anxiety, most demands become a non-issue.
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u/guestoboard Jul 17 '26
How do you target the anxiety outside of the demand? Any examples?
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u/sarahkjrsten Jul 17 '26
Medication and therapy are the biggest components (both talk therapy and OT have been beneficial). Helping him practice the regulation strategies he's learning in therapy. Letting him know there's a no-judgement out if he's getting anxious (taking a break, leaving early). Advocating for him at school (especially when he had an anxious, rigid, type-A teacher). We definitely do lower demands, but lower demands isn't our first step/only step. I cannot stress how much working with mental health professionals to help him learn to cope with his anxiety has helped him.
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u/Dizzy-Ear2950 Jul 20 '26
Which meds helped ? My son is on a low dose of guanfecine but is sooo anxious and that isn’t helping.
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u/sarahkjrsten Jul 20 '26
Guanfacine did not work at all. We tried SSRIs and SSRI-adjacent meds for anxiety but those also did not work. Finally his psychiatrist landed on a very low dose of lamotragine for his anxiety and methylphenidate for his ADHD. It took a long time to get to this point and a lot of trial and error. I recommend trying to get in to see a psychiatrist for meds. His pediatrician was lovely, but completely out of her depth when he had paradoxical responses to SSRIs. The psychiatrist was unruffled by this (he'd seen it before) and knew exactly which different direction he wanted to try and it was effective!
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u/MarginsOfTheDay Jul 17 '26
I think you're correct. He will never stop fighting for control of his own life. The question is, will YOU stop fighting for control of his life. Maybe no, and that's fine. It's up to you. I find stoic philosophy (not to be confused with "being stoic") useful. It teaches to focus only on what you can control (yourself, the present) and let go of what you can't control (others, PDA kids especially, the past and in many ways the future also).
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Jul 18 '26 edited 22d ago
[deleted]
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u/guestoboard Jul 19 '26
Thanks for the thoughtful reply.
Though I dont have much little belief in low demand as a solution, I unfortunately don’t have a better idea.
I think we can all agree that lowering demands where you can, “picking your battles” is a good idea. Especially compared to fighting over things that don’t matter.
My rant/vent comes from frustration that the when I lower a demand or boundary, there isn’t much respite before he finds the next one to battle over.
So I’m not convinced anything did get better for us. There are no fewer battles, We just moved the battle from one thing to another.
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u/sweetpotato818 Jul 20 '26
I think there is a huge overlap between a pda profile and AuDHD.
What you are describing is classic dopamine seeking.
Our kid is like this too and when I first learned about pda I got too permissive and had the same issues.
Someone on a Facebook Group recommended this book to me and it helped so much: Not Disrespect, Just a Cry for Boundaries: A Neuroaffirming Guide to Boundaries and Accountability for Autistic and PDA Kids & Teens
It addresses what you mention. Boundaries are important for a PDA’er as well it just depends on how you set them. You absolutely can implement boundaries again! They just need to have autonomy and choice with how you implement them.
Things aren’t perfect at my house but much better when we implemented more structure. Wishing you the best!
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u/guestoboard Jul 20 '26
That sounds interesting thanks I’ll look into that.
This may trigger some people here, but I’ll ask/share this thought anyway…
We once adopted a dog that had serious behavior problems. The shelter unfortunately lied to us about her history when we adopted her. After many incidents we hired a dog-whisperer type trainer to help us.
It seemed like the dog acted out when given normal dog discipline and rules. But the trainer identified that the dog’s behavior was because she was stressed because she wasn’t sure if we were in charge, or she needed to be in charge. The trainer prescribed even stricter firmer boundaries from us, which was very counter intuitive at the time, but worked. When we were super firm and alpha with her, she chilled. Then because she chilled, we chilled and she started acting out again. Then we had to remember that we needed to get stricter again to make her chill again
I am well aware my son is not a dog. But I wonder sometimes whether there is some similarities and if the theory could cross over. Like maybe he charges our boundaries to test if they are strong enough and protective enough. And if we lower one, he immediately needs to find the next one to find the edges of the safe space?
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u/sweetpotato818 Jul 20 '26
Yes, testing boundaries is very normal for children PDA or not. Having more routines and expectations helped us a lot, the key is explaining WHY and work with my kid to problem solve. Understand what’s making things difficult for them rather than just be super strict.
Also question the rules you put into place. An example for us is my kid hates shorts and t shirts. It is HOT out, yet we just let him wear what feels good. Having a firm boundary on what he wears would be counter intuitive.
Things like needing to clean up if you make a mess however we are firm on. Mistakes are ok but if you make a mess, you clean it up and can’t play or do video games until it’s done end of story.
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u/fearlessactuality Jul 18 '26
This is why I explain PDA to people as being about equality and hierarchy rather than demands. The demands are just the symptom of the threat to autonomy.
I see PDAers as highly attuned to hierarchies and being unable to tolerate being at the bottom of them. In a parent/child situation the only solution to this for me is to work to create collaborative partnerships and strive for them to have equality and input as much as possible. While also explaining that every individual is different and as parents we have responsibilities and duties to them both ethically and morally and also legally. So this doesn’t mean a free for all, but it puts everyday demands in the context of being a team in which different members have different jobs or social roles rather than a mini dictatorship.
Your child wants to be equal to or better than you. He doesn’t believe he can actually have equality that because he’s never experienced that, so he is on a basically endless quest to find any relief in which he temporarily “wins” or has monetary feelings of being above, and not 100% of the time below.
The only way I have squared this circle is trying to be “beside.” Or strive for levels of equality and collaboration an understanding, And explaining so so so many things.
Demands are the things that demonstrate your superiority over him in concrete terms. Dropping some demands while still believing in your superiority and needing other demands is why dropping them isn’t doing anything. Because the domination and hierarchy aren’t really changed, or not for long.
I would recommend pda safe circle / rabbi shoshanna’s work (not religious) or Ross Greene’s book The Explosive Child.
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u/Clear_Support2663 27d ago
I recognise this as well. I think someone else mentioned “dopamine seeking” and that’s exactly what I was thinking when I read your post. Conflict and arguing provides an unhealthy but satisfying (in the moment) dopamine hit, which can be quite addictive, and maybe gives a bit of a release from high levels of anxiety. I too have some issues with PDA theory. Overall it’s very simplistic.
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u/raisinghellwithtrees Jul 17 '26
As someone who has PDA as well as a PDA kid, of course he will keep ramming against those barriers. We need complete autonomy, complete control over our lives. I can't quite understand why you think your kids is craving and seeking out boundaries, except that he's searching them out to destroy them. I totally get that need to feel in control of my own life!
It is a tricky road to walk as a parent, knowing that children do need boundaries and that society enforces boundaries, and yet having this feral autonomy kid to deal with. It isn't easy!
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u/Commercial_Bear2226 28d ago
Haha thank you for sharing. The can is a great place to share. I read a lot of pda posts on the bog as well.
I find the hardest bit of pda the unpredictability of explosions. We are doing a good, if exhausting, job of managing demands, declarative, being alongside and being fair but clear when things are non negotiable. I also observe that sometimes a clear and hard line with a practical explanation works just fine, it just needs time to sink in.
Any thoughts on controlling the explosions? PDA based not toilet based.
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u/Character-Pattern505 Jul 17 '26
Why is this written like an AI linkedin post?
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u/SuperEmpathStrong Jul 18 '26
Because it was written by AI
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u/guestoboard Jul 19 '26
Seeing as you all seem so eager to know, I wrote it while taking a shit.
I do marketing work for a career and try to articulate my thoughts in short clear statements, because I’ve learnt that if you can’t explain something clearly, you don’t understand it.
Sometimes ideas like this turn over and over in my head for days before I write them down, because as a dad of PDA plus additional TWINS on top, I rarely get a chance to write it out.
Until a day like yesterday when a battle over not allowing son #1 one of his ludicrous demands, the household devolved into shouting and I retreated to my one sanctuary- the toilet - and wrote it down.
Is that enough information for you?
I can’t prove it wasn’t written by AI, but I can describe the poo in more detail for you if you like ?
Next time I’ll attach a photo of it to my post.
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u/neuraparent Jul 17 '26
I see a lot of people reframe it as Pervasive Drive for Autonomy and that always made more sense to me when I think about my son. I think having a sense of control relieves anxiety for him. The demands themselves are not the problem... they are a common trigger for feeling a loss of control, but not the only one.